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Old 31-08-2013, 14:14   #2371
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Awesome! Thanks for sharing!
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:50   #2372
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

A very sad note to pass on to the trimaran community... Dick Newick, trimaran designer extraordinaire, has died at 87. For drawing boats with speed, beauty, and grace, his work takes one's breath away. He will be missed...

Dick Newick – Revolutionary Multihull Designer | Old Salt Blog – a virtual port of call for all those who love the sea
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Old 03-09-2013, 23:29   #2373
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Talking about payload I dont think the trimaran En Pointe is overloaded its loaded but I have never seen any 31 with amas elbows out of water when they are loaded for cruising.Even Jim browns boat when loaded didnt have amas out of water.I had a 31 for 5 years and cruised sea of cortez and mexican mainland and we lived aboard full time with 3 and the ama elbows were just like En Pointe It didnt sail as fast of course but didnt pound bad unless your trying to do something stupid like going 9k into 35knots hard on the wind.Even the 37 that I own now that jim and jo cruised down here never had ama elbows way out of the water and jim and jo said she was just loaded for cruising were she sat which was with ends touching water.But you dont want to push the boat as hard as you would if she was set up for week ends or racing of course and here in the sea of cortez we get really steep seas.
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Old 04-09-2013, 08:30   #2374
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Otter Jim View Post
Talking about payload I dont think the trimaran En Pointe is overloaded its loaded but I have never seen any 31 with amas elbows out of water when they are loaded for cruising.Even Jim browns boat when loaded didnt have amas out of water.I had a 31 for 5 years and cruised sea of cortez and mexican mainland and we lived aboard full time with 3 and the ama elbows were just like En Pointe It didnt sail as fast of course but didnt pound bad unless your trying to do something stupid like going 9k into 35knots hard on the wind.Even the 37 that I own now that jim and jo cruised down here never had ama elbows way out of the water and jim and jo said she was just loaded for cruising were she sat which was with ends touching water.But you dont want to push the boat as hard as you would if she was set up for week ends or racing of course and here in the sea of cortez we get really steep seas.



As I made clear in my post about overloading IN GENERAL... None of my "overloading" comments were directed at En Pointe.

NO ONE, myself included, can make a determination about someone else's boat's loading from 2 photos alone, without seeing a dozen more of them from different angles, and having a lot of boat loading and life circumstance information to go on. I had none of that information about En Point, so shifted my comments to addressing my fellow trimariners as a group, as I often do.

My comments = my opinion, was simply that, in general: "For boats that DO envision really harsh offshore conditions, including beating hard to windward in huge choppy seas, or off of a lee shore in 40+ knots of wind", (AS we have, and MOST blue water sailors will), then overloading BEYOND 6" of Vaka transom immersion, can become a life threatening issue. We are not just talking about having a slower boat, like with monohulls, but a dangerous one. In the past... Jim Brown has suggested in print, that 4" of Vaka transom immersion be a maximum number for blue water sailors, but I don't know his position now. I was just giving mine...

Boats that DO NOT ever expect to encounter such harsh conditions, who are in controlled circumstances, in harbor or sail in protected seas, daysailors, or if it is a temporary loading condition... are in a totally different group, of which I have no opinion.

Of coarse, "A" frame boats have far less underwing to be pounded into oblivion, so they have that advantage... Perhaps they are OK right up to that maximum number? It's hard to say. I know "I" wouldn't suggest doing it.

I reiterate: For the exclusive "blue water" group of sailors I referred to, that WILL eventually see those harsh sea conditions, I stand by my opinion that: "We should all set 6" of Vaka transom immersion (when trimmed level), as an absolute maximum". Less loading would of coarse be far better, but we all have to draw the line somewhere.

I have drawn mine, and pass this information on to others, purely to be of service to those that I can help. For folks that disagree, by all means, load your boats as you see fit...

Kindest regards to all,
Mark


PHOTOS: And, my apologies for the repeats here...

Sailing, "by necessity"... In the VERY deep Tongue of the Ocean off of the East coast of Andros, Bahamas. We were reefed way down, pointing as HARD AS WE COULD SAIL to windward @ over 8 knots, in NASTY 13 - 15' seas, with 30 - 35 knot winds and gusting higher. For over 12 hours... There was a breaking reef just a 200' to leeward, and when it got to just 100' away, we had to pop a tack in these conditions, to avoid shipwreck.

This is nothing, compared to the conditions that many Searunners encounter, like 50' seas during a hurricane! Blue water sailing over long distances or for many many years, includes it all! It is all about the "law of averages" then.

In our case, even as overloaded as we were, we did fine. I would NOT, however, have wanted to be even MORE overloaded than I have described.
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Old 04-09-2013, 14:53   #2375
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Hello All,

Work progresses on Princess Pupulei but she won't taste the sea this year. Launch is now set for June.

Mark mentioned how John Marples won the Trans pac with a SR37. My boat is in the Hinckley yard in RI. They don't know multi history. I tell them how one of that design won the Tranapac and they give me a look of disbelief. Also, I've had the comment from Ken Reade, yes that Ken Reade, "what's up with that thing?"

Ah, if they only knew how good these boats are.

John B
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SR37 #219
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Old 04-09-2013, 16:01   #2376
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Right on blewett john
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Old 04-09-2013, 16:47   #2377
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

So True John! Although Searunners are not meant to be racers, it just makes this Transpac win all the more remarkable, considering that they were vastly out classed by serious competition!

And what a wild tale it is too. These guys drove Baccanal harder than you can imagine, even sending crew up the mast to make repairs, while surfing huge waves at close to 20 knots. John Marples tells the story personally (with a slide show), on his CD:
http://www.outrigmedia.com/digitalme...multihull.html

There is a wealth of good multihull owning tips on John's CD too, but it is worth it JUST to hear this bonus Transpac winning tale, of combining a PARTICULARLY fast Searunner with world class crew, who applied excellent seamanship, perfect navigation and tactics, cojones, and a bit of luck... in this truely "perfect passage".

Check it out!
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Old 04-09-2013, 16:51   #2378
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

I think they were entered in an unofficial multihull class that was only run that year. I don't think there is a trophy anywhere in LA or Waikiki with John's name on it.
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Old 04-09-2013, 19:52   #2379
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Back then the multihull transpac was run on alternate years with the mono race. The Rudy Choy cats brought that about by finishing in front of the monos. They also finished in front of Bachnaal which took its glory on handicap/time allowance.
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:00   #2380
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Give credit where credit is due. Easy to take away something that was extra special. It was in those days a special occasion for a Searunner crusiing trimaran to actually show up others. For a cruising vessel to embark on a very prestigious race and have its own glory shows how special these Searunners are... and so give credit where credit is due.
Well done John Marples.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:48   #2381
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by rossad View Post
Give credit where credit is due. Easy to take away something that was extra special. It was in those days a special occasion for a Searunner crusiing trimaran to actually show up others. For a cruising vessel to embark on a very prestigious race and have its own glory shows how special these Searunners are... and so give credit where credit is due.
Well done John Marples.


My sentiments exactly Ross!

John's "official" win in the Transpac was in fact on corrected time, as would usually be the case when flat out higher tech "racers" and pure "cruising boats" race together. This being a corrected time win, however, does not in any way diminish the accomplishment. The odds of their winning, even on corrected time, were like 100 to 1 against! It was not SO "corrected" that it gave Bacchanal an advantage. Far from it!

Bacchanal started out as a slightly modified "lighter weight", SR 37, and she was a relatively fast, purpose built boat. She had a spade rudder, no mini keel, and I believe, no engine. Still, she was just a homebuilt plywood cruising boat, that was in no way designed for this sort of racing. (Much later, John switched Bacchanal out from the spade to the skeg rudder, for 10 years of Pacific cruising).

The competition in the Transpac included some much larger and MUCH faster racing multihulls, and Bacchanal beat many of them flat out, NOT just on corrected time.

How? First... John built and equipped a fast "cruising" boat. Then, for the race, he assembled a remarkable highly skilled and GUNG HO crew to sail with him. They had far better tactics than some boats, keeping them in more favorable, "high" winds for screaming across the ocean at close to 20 knots, most of the way across. They also had a crew member SO ballsy that he would go up the mast in these conditions to release a snag or something, without EVER slowing the boat down. And... one of the most important things that led to their win, was that Bacchanal was designed and built strong enough THAT SHE DIDN'T BREAK, even with this level of abuse.

Several boats in the lead were not so fortunate, and had race loosing breakdowns along the way. (They were built too fragile). Also... For some faster racers, they just made poorer tactical choices than Bacchanal, or they were more timid when "mast climbing time" came, etc. So you see, this win was a very multi faceted accomplishment.

If you listen to the story, as I have, then I think most experienced sailors would agree that John's win in the Transpac with a slightly faster than average Searunner 37, against world class competition, was one of the more remarkable small boat "David vs Goliath" racing wins in the history of sailing!

Others may not agree with me, but if they have not seen the slide show while listening to John tell the whole story, first, (before forming an opinion), then their opinion, what ever it is... is totally invalid.


Mark
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:36   #2382
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

In the trimaran credit where it is do dept. The first tri to place- again on corrected time was Ed Horstman in the first Tristar. He took 3rd place in a previous race.....Those achievements are good against the Choy cats which had a much longer history and development, the boats of choice for doctors and Hollywood actors such as Buddy Ebson from the 'Beverly Hillbillies" as well James Arness from "Gunsmoke". In fairness to the handicaping committee the tris were a new thing and no-one was sure how fast they would go giving them a good rating. Good for John and company who understood that to perform well and capitlize on the situation they had to keep things light.
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Old 05-09-2013, 17:30   #2383
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

If you are interested in early multihull, and particularly Searunner, "lore", AND you want to get the "facts" right...

Don't just take my word for it, listen and see the pics for yourself, to get it from John Marples first hand. I tell ya guys, its one helluva good story!

http://www.outrigmedia.com/digitalme...multihull.html

Mark
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Old 05-09-2013, 18:37   #2384
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

As Cav suggests there is no record of an official Transpac in 1972. The Tranpacific Yacht Club hosted a race to Tahiti that year. No doubt there was a race to Hawaii in 1972 organized by someone and Cav claims that there were at least 2 entrants.......
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Old 06-09-2013, 06:42   #2385
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

I never pay attention to Cav, Jeff. I mean REALLY...
Btw, Your frequent "nay saying" on this thread, sounds like a guy with a negative Searunner bias, who has chosen cats over tris. Remember, these comments are falling on deaf ears, here on a "Searunner / tri" thread.

FACTS;
John's TransPac win was legitimate, it was not "actually" won on corrected time by a Horstman, OR the likes of Buddy Ebson and James Arness. There was serious "very fast larger boat" competition, each with highly skilled crews. That is what made this win such a David vs Goliath story. (IF you had bothered to SEE AND HEAR THE STORY before disparaging the win, you would know this).

If you don't want to take my word for it, or Jim's, or John's, OR get John's CD to see the photos of the "faster competition" I refer to, then as I said previously: "Others may not agree with me, but if they have not seen the CD while listening to John tell the whole story, first, (before forming an opinion), then their opinion, what ever it is... is totally invalid."

THIS IS A MATTER OF RECORD:
How about Bill Lee's word, John's tactition in the race. Is he lying too? (Like I said, John had a REMARKABLY skilled crew)!

[MHml] Searunner 37 Bacchanal, Bill Lee, Transpac

Or what about IBEX. Are they making it up too?

IBEX 2013: Session Speaker: John Marples

OR:

Catamaran 1971 Searunner Catamaran For Sale


ENOUGH ALREADY!
Any more said about this subject is beating a dead horse, so I will drop it other than to reiterate (to those with Searunners), that want to hear a really great sea story about one of their fastest sisterships... YOU KNOW the basic facts, but if you want to hear the whole story, (and I mean the truthful version), you know where to get it.

For you guys that choose to disagree... I agree to disagree.

PEACE...
Mark
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