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Old 16-07-2013, 08:28   #2341
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

WET/DRY HATCHES CONTINUED:
These shots show more details... The SS eye bolts on the deck and hatch line up when the hatch is pressed down, so when at sea going hard to windward, I can slip a truss head machine screw through them as a secure "latch". The foam hatch gasket requires that I stand on the hatch to slip the bolt in there, and by merely stepping off of the hatch it springs up and holds this pin securely. In rare situations where "locking" the hatches seems prudent, I have small but "long hasp" padlocks that act as locking pins.

In the photo of "between the hulls", the various wave deflectors can be seen. The deflectors for the cockpit sub floor drains are factory made plastic models, and the deflector covering the anchor locker's drain hole is WELL epoxied wood. (I had not yet found the nifty plastic ones)...

Inside the port anchor locker you can see that it contains my dive gear, bottom maintenance tools, and ground tackle. This stuff would really be a stinky mess, if it had been a "wet" locker. Note that THIS side has much heavier DriDeck tiles on the bottom, for better drying of my dive gear. My FX 23 also lives in here "disassembled", with the anchor's shank already connected to it's rode which is tucked under in a bag, (just like with the smaller Fortress on the stbd side). In this case however, the anchor requires a 5 minute assembly. When fully assembled, it is FAR too large to fit in the locker...

I use my Delta 35 "primary" 99% of the time, and generally combine it with the little FX 16 to make a "Bahamian moor". For this reason I rarely use this larger Fortress 23. Given good holding, the 10lb FX 16 can hold Delphys securely in >60 knots of wind! For anchoring in hurricanes, a big FX 37 lives disassembled, in it's bag, down below decks. The wing locker's FX 23 is more for the occasional sustained but "lesser storms" than hurricanes...

AFT DRY LOCKER:
This one is never swept by waves, so stays bone dry. It is also harder to get to, so it is where Mariam puts her dive bag. This is not Captain's prerogative, I get the easier accessed locker because I do 95% of the diving. This locker also contains a couple of quickly accessed fenders and the dinghy tow line, (Which we seldom use).

The aft locker drains out of the transom down near the WL by way of interior connecting hoses, so there is absolutely NO backwards water flow, unlike the other two. It also has a Vetus passive vent in the hatch for cross ventilation, so is literally "dusty dry" in there.

As I have said before, IF you put your "impervious stuff" in the cockpit's very wet sub floor, and use these wing lockers for all manner of boat gear like we do, then making vented "dry" hatches for them is well worth the effort. It is not really to prevent rot. As Roy pointed out... this should not be possible if the lockers are sealed properly. Dry hatches help to to preserve the locker's contents.

Hope this helps,
Mark
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Old 16-07-2013, 12:41   #2342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sea dragon View Post
I remember awhile back there was discussion about "wet lockers".
Mark had some good ideas about"not so wet lockers"
I am dealing with my "rot lockers" right now, and want to come up with a bit dryer hatch arraingement.
I'm also wanting to upgrade the lockers themselves to be stronger and less likely to rot.
I can't find the discussion.Does anyone have a link?
I did point out that going without extra deck hatches works too. I made my ama hatches a bit bigger to handle all my requirements. Clean decks, less for guests to look out for. Really shows off the lines of the SR 40 . I am now carrying a surfboard in my starboard forward ama. Have room for folding bikes, small motorcycles...etc.
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Old 17-07-2013, 22:18   #2343
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Thanks Roy and Mark.
Yes that's the type lockers I need.
To protect the contents.
Unfortunatly the rot is bed enough in places that some plywood will need to be replaced.
But I scrubbed them all out and am getting things good and dry so I can assess
the situation
While I'm at it, I better check the amas for ventilation and dryness
the deck lockers are exreemly useful for all sorts of things.
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Old 18-07-2013, 07:48   #2344
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by sea dragon View Post
Thanks Roy and Mark.
Yes that's the type lockers I need.
To protect the contents.
Unfortunatly the rot is bed enough in places that some plywood will need to be replaced.
But I scrubbed them all out and am getting things good and dry so I can assess
the situation
While I'm at it, I better check the amas for ventilation and dryness
the deck lockers are exreemly useful for all sorts of things.

Glad to help Sea Dragon.

That is a good idea for you to check out the condition of and ventilation in your amas, and in all bilges. Those of you with non WEST system boats need to be even more cautious about this!

I keep ALL of my bilges "dust bunny dry", ALL of the time. This preserves the boat and it's contents, makes for drier more comfortable air to live in, and lets you know IMMEDIATELY if you have a small leak somewhere.

If you go back a few pages... I passed on my for & aft ama vent invention with detailed instructions. They are cheap & easy to build, but most importantly, they create the needed cross ventilation quite effectively, without passing a drop of water, even in a gale while out on the hook.

Sailing at sea of coarse, they are always securely capped...

Best of luck on your repairs, and may we all KEEP THE WATER ON THE OUTSIDE!

Mark
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Old 31-07-2013, 07:38   #2345
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

I am looking for a bimini for my 31.
Thought I'd see if anyone had one for sale.
Thanks
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Old 01-08-2013, 17:21   #2346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trisailer View Post
I am looking for a bimini for my 31.
Thought I'd see if anyone had one for sale.
Thanks
Also looking for a cockpit shelter or bimini for my 31.

Trisailor, how much clearance do you have between gooseneck and cabin top?
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Old 04-08-2013, 18:01   #2347
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Hi Md7a,
I have 24inches of clearance from the gooseneck bottom to the cabin top.
BTW, anyone one else reading this post, my 31 folding system is working great.
And holding up to waves etc.
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Old 05-08-2013, 16:23   #2348
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Nice looking 31' on CL in Canada
Searunner 31' Trimaran Sailboat
Wish it was the right timing for me to move up from the 25...
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Old 08-08-2013, 10:00   #2349
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

THE A FRAME "FOLDING" ALTERNATIVE:

For daysailing or local cruising only, whatever modifications come to mind, probably will not get you killed, so experiment away... For serious blue water ocean cruising, however, BY FAR the safest bet is to stick with the tried and true on issues of safety or structural integrity.

Trisailer's folding A frame mod vs conventional A frames is a case in point. For one thing, look at the "big picture". The Searunner A frame 31 was not designed as a "trailerable" boat, it was designed as a one time "demountable" boat for building at inland sites, then to be trailered once.

If you consider setting up the fore and aft diagonal planks on both sides, side cabin planks, rigging the stantions and nettings, then standing the rig/boom, installing running rigging, and the long painstaking tuning of the rig to get her "just right", then attaching of sails, etc... The connecting of the amas is a VERY small portion of the overall time invested, with EITHER SR 31 A frame system. The SR rig, btw, is totally inappropriate to quick shorthanded setup, and not at all like the rigs seen on truly trailerable trimarans. You also have to consider the effort of loading up with fluids, gear, and cruising supplies, which usually takes weeks, as well as the expense and hassle of modifying and maintaining an appropriate trailer (with brakes) & tow vehicle. Then there is acquiring permits for the still "too wide a load".

Jim & John's newer small SC designs that WERE intended to be trailerable, are a better choice for day sailor/weekenders. They are a smaller/lighter package with quick setup time, and the rig as well as ALL other aspects of the boat were designed with trailering in mind.

With the Searunner A frame 31, the polar opposite is true in all the ways mentioned. It is obviously working for Trisailer and I mean no disrespect to him. I certainly wish him well in his experiment. For others, however, I will repeat...

If he really added up ALL of the effort involved in frequently acquiring permits, trailering, COMPLETELY setting up, tuning, & loading, of such a large ill-suited boat, then storing the huge vehicle & huge trailer while you're out cruising, his folding A frames only knock about 5% off of this total "goin cruisin" process.

What he looses for this 5% gain, is "track record" and "proven" reliability. Remember, the first incarnation of SR 31 A frame boats that were out there did just fine for quite some time. Then, a few buckled at sea. YIKES! Jim immediately put out a "re-call" for ALL SR 31 owners to replace their A frame connectives with the NEW better engineered versions. These newer versions of the A frame have stood the test of time with reliability.

Trisailer looses this incredible safe track record... Perhaps due to their sheer numbers, the 31 is actually the most extensively traveled of any of the Searunners out there! As is, it is a proven design.
On the other hand... Until several hundred "modified" 31s are built with this new "folding" A frame system, and they have been "out there" covering hundreds of thousands of blue water miles for decades, they have no comparable track record. There is also the crevice corrosion issue created by a "hinge", with uncaulked mating surfaces trapping salt water between them.

For serious blue water sailors, the price for that extra 5% of convenience at setup time, is quite steep. You loose "proven" safety! For folks that daysail and weekend cruise, that want a truly "trailerable" boat, I suggest that you build or buy one designed for it, as I've said. The SR 31 A frame, decidedly is not...

May we all make good choices and... sail safe!
Mark


PS If you want a truly blue water capable but ALSO easily "trailerable" design, I suggest John Marple's award winning DC3. It has all of the features that make it easy to build and own as well. IMO... It's brilliant!

It can also be done with the "demountable" SR 31 A frame design, but across the board, it is not nearly as practical.
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Old 09-08-2013, 03:48   #2350
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Mark,

You mention tuning the rig in the previous post. Do you have recommended loos gauge tension readings for the Searunner 37? How tight should the rig be? Should there be any rake or bend to the mast?

I have loosened my rig with all the work I have been doing and am not sure the correct tune.

Thanks,
John B.
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Old 09-08-2013, 08:39   #2351
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Mark, new ideas only come from experiments.
I talked to John about my idea, and he informed me, that the a-frames were originally designed with a hinge. So he thought experimentation might work.
I do not intend to fold and launch daily or weekly. I did the folding, as to launch and fold in the spring and again in the fall.
This saves me about $1500 a year in launch and storage fees.
Never mind I then have the boat here at home, to work on it, instead of being at a storage place 150 miles from home.
Also saving the daily work on your boat marina fees.
There are few places that let you work on your boat in their yard.
Setting the boat up is time consuming, but I have more time than money.
Setup takes about 1 hour to unfold and raise the hulls. 1/2 hour to have the mast raised by the marina and 1 hour to hook up the standing rigging.
Then minutes to launch the boat.
Total marina fees $75 to raise the mast and $100 to launch.
Sure the rigging is not tuned perfect, but with the money saved, tuning can be done as time warrants.
Painting the threads of the turnbuckles makes it easy to get the mast rigged close.
The biggest hassle, is lashing on the tramps. This fall I'm going to try leaving the nets on and see how it works.
As far as permits for wide load, I have to pay an annual $90 fee.
Also have to pay $215 for police escort in one city.
Is it hard to drive a 13ft wide load?
Not at all.
My 1 ton truck pulled it all the way from California and from home to Milwaukee, with no problem.
City streets are easy, you just take as much space as needed and if it is too tight, just wait a minute, most people will get over.
My truck uses gas, so sometimes, it is hard to get in and out of gas stations.
But it's all fun to watch peoples looks and to answer all the questions from curious on lookers.
All said and done, I save considerable money and the boat is home for me to work on anytime I want.
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Old 09-08-2013, 10:50   #2352
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

13' !!!! How can a searunner 31 with the Amas off be 13'? I thought they were intended to be trailered with the Amas off? I was looking at the CC 35 that John incidentally designed swing wing Amas for and that was only like 10 or 11' wide.
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:16   #2353
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boatguy30 View Post
13' !!!! How can a searunner 31 with the Amas off be 13'? I thought they were intended to be trailered with the Amas off? I was looking at the CC 35 that John incidentally designed swing wing Amas for and that was only like 10 or 11' wide.

The amas are not demounted, they are hinged so they can fold down and fold up.
Easier than demounting.
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Old 09-08-2013, 14:44   #2354
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

TRI SAILER:
Sounds like you have your system all sussed out, and that it works for you beautifully. I never doubted that. There certainly is a HUGE advantage maintenance wise, to having the boat on a trailer in your yard, vs keeping it hundreds of miles away at a dock, "unattended" for a year, until you can go cruising again. I understand your reasoning... If John feels that these "hinges" are just a variation on a proven theme, perhaps there is little to worry about, especially with regular inspection of the un-cailked articulating parts!

My points about the "big picture" were meant for others, who may not have or don't want to own and maintain such a large gas consumptive vehicle, and long term safe as well as perfectly fitting trailer. These represent a monetary value FAR more than that of the boat itself! Other folks might have their "demountable" version of the 31 driven to the coast just one time by a pro, saving themselves this ongoing vehicle maintenance and expense. I did with our full wing deck SR 34, for a fraction of the cost of "owning" the entire truck & trailer, as you do. This extra expense and maintenance hassle, as well as repeatedly enduring FAR higher intensity hauls and setups, are also part of the big picture. What if you can't get permits? Escorts? What if your route to the sea closes down on you from development, as it did for us?

I would still would not call trailering a Searunner 31 to the coast EVERY year, and then assembling the works there, "practical", compared to the relative ease, speed, and lesser expense of hauling and setting up a smaller/lighter boat that was designed for trailering.

Our haul to the coast (75 by land & 75 by inland lakes/rivers) was with an incomplete hull only, and she then represented 5 non stop years of 100 hours a week between us, so made me a nervous wreck! Doing it repeatedly would give me a heart attack! Just convincing the DOT to "call" Delphys a house, as it was TOO wide to haul in SC as a boat, and then acquiring the separate permits for each of 3 counties, took over a month of begging!

One thing I do agree with... Owning a Searunner or any other older custom trimaran requires ongoing maintenance = living close by.
Imo... It is best to live on the boat, or within 20 minutes of it as we do. Since I go to the boat daily, it is not practical to live too much further away. In a pinch, one could live several hours away, but only if they came to the boat regularly for maintenance. These boats don't take to neglect very well!

Tri Sailer... You have found a way to live quite remotely from the coast AND keep a close eye on the boat when not out cruising. It is more stress than I could take, but... GREAT that it works for you man. My hat's off to ya!




BLEWETT JOHN:
I don't have my notes here, but... You want the lowers pretty tight, the intermediates just loose enough that the leeward side almost but not quite hangs slack in 20 knots of wind with full sail, and the uppers so damned tight that the leeward side NEVER hangs slack. This is like 1,500 lbs of static preload sitting at the dock. It is not like the rigging might pop, it's that when sailed as a sloop under full sail, the mast must lean IN COLUMN, especially when pushing hard to windward in a real blow.

Going HARD to windward, in 25 knots of wind with full sail up, eyeball up the back of the mast. You should see the upper part of mast bend to the side no more than about 2 or 3". IF it bends in it's top 1/3rd over 5 or 6", this could buckle the mast!

This is why you do not set up the runners tighter or have the intermediates tighter to solve this. You expect it to lean, but want it to stay in column when it does. SO, the uppers have to be TIGHT. You can adjust your turnbuckles at the dock, IF the threads are well TefGelled. You want the mast to remain vertical side to side while doing this too. I take 5 turns to starboard, then 5 to port... etc.

Since the mast also pumps forward when going to windward in a blow, (sailing as a sloop), after everything else is right, get the forestay really tight by tightening the BACK stay. With the lower 2/3rds of the mast still perfectly vertical (at the dock), this will bend the top section aft about 2". This way, when hard pressed and the mast is loaded to the max, it has bent forward and is now straight (perfectly in column), or when pumping a bit, bent forward no more that 1" or so.

This tedious and careful rig tuning is very important on Searunners, IF you want to be able to push the boat hard to windward. It requires a perfect combination of rigging preloads, with each section performing a different task.

If one skips this, they just can't beat hard to windward for days, in 20+ knots of wind and big seas. Sailing in this wind speed, as a sloop, creates the maximum "buckling effect" on the upper 1/3rd of the rig.

Once it is blowing over 30, you have stopped trying to go fast, and want to slow down! NOW the main has a double reef, the headsail is down, and you are sailing with the staysail & runners set. These sails just go to the upper spreaders. Now this part of the mast has the intermediates, the staysail stay, AND the runners all tensioned up. With all of that redundancy, It is now bullet proof.

So... If you were ever to risk buckling the mast, the risk is FAR higher from sailing FAST hard to windward as a sloop, with full sail, in 28 knots of wind... than sailing under reefed main and staysail WITH runners set, in 35+ knots of wind.

OUR SR 34s taller "skinny" mast, always sailed as a sloop, DOES require a more perfect tune, but it is also important for all of our Searunners. Take your time, eyeball up the mast a lot at first, and tune her carefully. Then you'll be fine. It took us a couple of weeks and several sails to get her "just right", and in the 17 years since, we put an extra turn on everything just ONCE. It has remained perfect and is well worth the effort!

Mark
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Old 10-08-2013, 01:19   #2355
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbat View Post
Nice looking 31' on CL in Canada
Searunner 31' Trimaran Sailboat
Wish it was the right timing for me to move up from the 25...
whoah. flashbacks!

in those photos, the one I've linked below... when I first went to see my boat, the s/v TIE Fighter, she was moored right where that boat is now!!

That space is in White Rock, BC, and I guess it must be a popular place for trimaran owners... there were two there when I was there, and the one in the photos is not one of those two.
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