Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

[Cavalier MK2]

Originally Posted by sea dragon

My father was a latex paint man.
Once a year we would scrub the cabinsides and deck down in the morning,
and paint that afternoon(at anchor).
The topsides would be done the same way on the beach.
That was a 2 day deal because it was a monohul,so we only could do one side at a time.
Next day we would go sailing on our newly painted craft.
I totally understand,and applaud where you are coming from about latex paint,Cavalier.
With boats,like women,
It's not the fancy makeup on the surface that matters,but what's underneath it.
There's no end to the expensive"latest innovations"that the boating industry wants us to believe we have to buy.
We don't need 95% of that crap at all.
Bicycicling is an example.
All you really need is a bike(and helmet)
But 90% of riders wear ridiculous lycra leotard monkey suits complete with ridiculous shoes.
They might as well wear a sign saying"I am an idiot"
What's up with that????

Thanks Sea Dragon, The bike analogy is a good one. The lycra won't change what is underneath but riders want the serious cyclist look and it might help smooth the breeze. A similar boatbuilding analogy would be somebody who used exterior ply instead of marine then got obsessive about what is on top. All the icing in the world can't make up for the basic ingredients that affect real value and strength. Better market those to the newbies who only see gloss and shine...

5 year + schedule is good enough for me on repaints and then it is really only for the bumps and scrapes of the sailing life.Never did get fussy when hords of sandy people are running around the deck. Latex lasts on houses everywhere in the world, when was the last time you saw them painted with LPs?

I've had good results with other latex paints such as valspar, in any case premium exterior coatings are what you want. My canoe enddecks still look decent 8+ years on but they don't get walked on much. The hull is dragged over rocks and sand and looks like it. Not much paint on the bottom and banged up sides, time for the refit.

This brings up the problem of recommendations or the mistake of telling someone what to do. Everyone has to figure out how their boat is used, budget, abilities values etc... weigh the pros and cons, pick a system and go for it. Many people get serious enjoyment out of shiny bling and for them I say do what makes you happy, they call these things pleasure boats and everybody gets their enjoyment in different ways. In the long term hazardous coatings that are spayed into the atmosphere are probably going to be regulated. The Gougeons recommend using the roll and brush formulations for safety and responsibility reasons.

[Doggone]

Originally Posted by Cavalier MK2

Thanks Sea Dragon, The bike analogy is a good one. The lycra won't change what is underneath but riders want the serious cyclist look and it might help smooth the breeze. A similar boatbuilding analogy would be somebody who used exterior ply instead of marine then got obsessive about what is on top. All the icing in the world can't make up for the basic ingredients that affect real value and strength. Better market those to the newbies who only see gloss and shine...

5 year + schedule is good enough for me on repaints and then it is really only for the bumps and scrapes of the sailing life.Never did get fussy when hords of sandy people are running around the deck. Latex lasts on houses everywhere in the world, when was the last time you saw them painted with LPs?

I've had good results with other latex paints such as valspar, in any case premium exterior coatings are what you want. My canoe enddecks still look decent 8+ years on but they don't get walked on much. The hull is dragged over rocks and sand and looks like it. Not much paint on the bottom and banged up sides, time for the refit.

This brings up the problem of recommendations or the mistake of telling someone what to do. Everyone has to figure out how their boat is used, budget, abilities values etc... weigh the pros and cons, pick a system and go for it. Many people get serious enjoyment out of shiny bling and for them I say do what makes you happy, they call these things pleasure boats and everybody gets their enjoyment in different ways. In the long term hazardous coatings that are spayed into the atmosphere are probably going to be regulated. The Gougeons recommend using the roll and brush formulations for safety and responsibility reasons.

I have used the short foam roller and brush with LPU and have had very good results. most people think its spayed. Algrip makes a brush formula that works very well. LPU is very toxic, says right on the can FOR PROFESSIONAL USE ONLY. Some multihulls in SF bay are using latex on the nonskid surfaces with good results. latex has come a long ways in the last 5 years.

[Boatguy30]

It is still super short lived in the tropics as is drews experience. When living aboard and cruising you get maybe 2 years. That's a lot of boat to be repainting every 2 years. I'm sure 2 or 3 times that lifespan is possible in colder less UV climates.

[Mark Johnson]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

Those sound great, but really hard to follow the design. Maybe just tired.

Sometimes I wonder about the wisdom of my "giving it all away", vs heading for the patent office, but in this case these simple & cheap dorade vents are perfect for this application, but probably lack mass market appeal. I must say... Of the hundreds of design solutions I have come up with, this is one of my favorites, for it's economy & simplicity. I love the cheap & simple solution best!

Over decades, I had tried ALL of the mushroom, clam shell, and scoop vents on the market, but when they're left in the open position, they all let "some" rain water in, if driven by a gale force wind. This was even true of the clam shells with little baffle inserts. Also, for use under way, none of these were 100% watertight and submersible. There were a couple of ideas out there that would fill one of these requirements, but not both.

During the 99% of the time spent dockside, or on the hook... These vents I am showing you move a LOT of air, no matter the wind direction. This is due to the "venturi effect". The more exposed vent of the two, creates a vacuum and draws air in from the opening in the opposite end of the ama.

When not under way in a chop, and the cover plates are off, absolutely NO rain gets in to the dusty dry hulls, but plenty of air does. This keeps the hulls contents dry & mildew free. This is true with the vents OPEN in up to 60 mph winds too!

When going sailing, I cap them, and the rugged "o" ring deck plate keeps the water out, even in towering waves or a pounding chop.

I have used these Beckson deck plates for over 36 years, and they are TOUGH. They do NOT leak, and last for decades. These on Delphys are dirty, but still perfect after 18 years of hard tropical sailing. I use them as inspection plates for the 34's numerous sealed wing voids, and as an inspection plate for the lid to the 30 gal holding tank, which I built out of the hull itself.

I have given the construction instructions already for making them up. I made 6 of them in half a day, and I guess the costs come in at about $10 to $15 each. The only parts are a Beckson "o" ring deck plate, a sch 40 PVC elbow, a step up coupler, (to make the elbow's dia match the deck plate's flange), and a can of PVC cement. The only tools are a screw driver and a table saw, (for cutting down the elbow, & cutting off a slice of the coupler).

It really serves the purpose, and leaves the ama decks clear of line snagging scoop or clam shell vents.

[Cavalier MK2]

Drew's experience isn't typical as he used kitchen and bathpaint not exterior. There is a difference. Not to pick on him but if he had tried the $7000 LP paint job and it had the inadequate prep Mark warned about he would be posting LPs as the worst mistake he made. The hard part about recommending things is if someone substitutes a different (or interior) product the whole approach gets the tar brush and the salts get to say "arr matey, don't last here'. Then there is the using of flat instead of gloss or semigloss. People aren't applying anything in lab conditions making it more challenging to evaluate. Did they wash before sanding, strip loose paint? Run around with thinner instead of water for a final wipe? If it holds up on your house it will last on the water. If you don't read the can for directions and safety instructions you are stacking the deck against yourself. Maybe non macho to read the directions and use the right thing but I'd rather be sailing.

[Mark Johnson]

ANOTHER DORADE VENT APPLICATION:
I also use this concept on my engine compartment vents.

Since the engine is in a more or less sealed compartment under the cabin sole, I needed both in and out vent hoses for the engine to breathe. I used standard dryer hose, and went up to the ceiling with it, over to the cabin side, and then to get to the outside... went down & out through a PVC elbow, (actually two), that are made much like the others shown.

The "two" elbows are to make a fair hose run, and for cabin side attachment I put a threaded sleeve on the bottom elbow. This threaded part passes through a snug epoxy lined hole in the cabin side. Then, to make a nut, I cut 3/8" slices of a PVC threaded female coupler. This caulked & screwed down attachment has worked fine so far...

To cover the hole, I used a couple of down turned SS clamshells with "Taco" edge trim.

The ONLY time any water got past this maze, was when we were pooped once, and got 6' of solid water across the deck. Now, 16 years later... I fall off way before that point!

Again, the only parts are SCH 40 PVC elbows, with some male and female threaded couplers. They are dirt cheep and easy to make as well.


THE ONE I REALLY SHOULD HAVE PATENTED:
About 34 years ago, when starting my SC 28, I made a hilarious breathing contraption of a Boy Scout backpack, Ply wood, a canvass bag, welders face shield, bilge pump hose, school bus heater fan, train transformer, and particle filter. IT WORKED GREAT! It allowed me to sand overhead, and keep the grindings out of me and off of me, without fogging my glasses. The positive air pressure kept the bag's bottom 100% out flowing.

I thought this a comical combination of free stuff out of my barn, (cost 0), and soon published the story with details and photos, in Multihulls Magazine.

10 years later, there were dozens of these available. It is called a P.A.P.R. for POWERED AIR PURIFYING RESPIRATOR.
The last photo below, is a fancy factory version.

THIS was the one I really wish I had pursued at the patent office, rather than give away!

Mark

[Boatguy30]

mark-

I see they curve up on the inside. I did not understand that from the previous post.

Thanks,
Jeff

[md7a]

Originally Posted by slowbat

Has anyone tried Easypoxy one part paint?

I have Easypoxy belowdecks, and it has lasted for many years.
My boat's topsides were also painted with Easypoxy, and it has held up ok, now heavily chalked and a little chafed off by fenders. It is easy to apply and does fine if you care for it.
The company rep at the boat shop said they have a new and improved version that has better longevity. Have not yet tried it.

[Roy M]

OUCH!!!!! I just got the revised quote to have my boat hauled, hydrowashed, a single coat of bottom paint, with a second at the waterline. Sitting down? $3500, from the folks who now own the two largest Travel Lifts in San Diego Bay.

[slowbat]

Originally Posted by md7a

The company rep at the boat shop said they have a new and improved version that has better longevity. Have not yet tried it.

Thanks Will!
I think the EZ Poxy 2 is a two part paint.

________
Anyone have anymore venting tricks?

I know my layout is totally different than the 31' and up, but I plan to grid drill the floor boards and under the forward and aft bunks. also under the mattresses I'll be using dry-deck to keep air moving. Is this a good or bad idea? Is it better to create a bilge tube with air flow in one end and out the other, or to have the entire boat be the air flow tube?

My boat also has just one tiny (3/8") limber hole per bulkhead, and the bulkheads forward and aft of the centerboard trunk had plugs; keeping this area air tight, any reason to keep this area zoned out titanic style? Any thoughts against adding more or enlarging limber holes below the floorboards to all the bulkheads? How big should i go?

[Maren]

Originally Posted by Roy M

OUCH!!!!! I just got the revised quote to have my boat hauled, hydrowashed, a single coat of bottom paint, with a second at the waterline. Sitting down? $3500, from the folks who now own the two largest Travel Lifts in San Diego Bay.

Roy: Wow. So how about Mexico?

Mark: I'm going to have to use that vent idea. Did you ever see the vent system Bob Wilson did on Rattle and Hum?

[Roy M]

Maren, that's the remaining option. It's a day down and a day back. At least the beer and food are good. I'll be checking into it and report back. It's too bad, I was going to let the boatyard do some other stuff, including pulling the mast for overhaul.

[Cavalier MK2]

Searunners have pretty bouyant bows because of the shape but a deck mount vent will give more freeboard to the opening if you ever forget to put the cap on. Dick Newick PVC wing vents use pipe going all the way through the aka with a 45 angle V near the top inside, the rain just runs through. A turn at the top of the 45 would drop under spray back down.

[Randy]

i had replaced the 4" fore & aft ama vents with 6" screw in. They were mounted in the ends and centered up on deck. No worries about any exotic installation. In rainy weather just closed them up and the interior stayed fine even when it was in storage for 3 yrs in the Seattle area.

[Boatguy30]

and I thought we were overcharged here at $500 to haul a Searunner 37. of course you can make some real money in San Diego so you have to factor that in as well.