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Old 27-08-2008, 13:15   #196
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Thanks

Cats...Paw....Thanks for the story...good one for sure. I figure you had it strait up into the wave train? I can see our tris being very stable this way as far as rolling. My experience is with a 125' Boat in the Bearing Sea. We use the main engine to "jog" up into it. Most times we are 45 degrees off from strait up to allow the boat a longer slope to climb and drop down on the backside. It helps takes the steepness out of the wave. But we are not sitting still either. We jog around 2-3 kts. Killing your Fwd. speed is the key to taking the punch out of the waves.
I am looking fwd. to going out on sea trials in the Tri and deploying the chute. The Sea of Cortez will allow me 30 to 40kts. on a good sunny day without too big of seas, although they will be steep suckers....:-)
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Old 27-08-2008, 14:39   #197
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Hi Jmolan,
Yup, we were straight downwind, which was in line with the wave train. Ours weren't too steep, though, with 30' + peaks and 500' between peaks. We used a big greased swivel and moused off shackles of course, and a pair of floats on a poly retrieval line (one about 30' above the chute and one on the downwind end). I wanted those floats to make sure that the chute didn't get down under us if the wind shifted too fast...or stopped!
The second time we put out the chute we rode it for better than a day, and she came back inside out. The crown had rotated right between two of the radial lines, and I never figured out how. There was no sorting her out till it was calm, but luckily the storm had decided to ease a bit by then.
My biggest concern was catching a breaking rogue from abeam, while tethered to the chute.
Go well, Kit.
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Old 28-08-2008, 02:29   #198
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All very interesting re: the parachute. I have both a 17 foot sea anchor and a drogue thats about 3 1/3 diameter. I have not yet used either but am very keen to try. deployment is very import and need to work a good system out. Jim Brown seems to favour the drogue from my readings. Going with nature one would say. Up to 56 - 60 knots of wind its bad enough but after that 75 to 100 knots it becomes pretty dangerous and survival. Last two years in NZ we have had some nasty storms. Not getting any better thats for sure. so preparation for this kind of weather is ever more important.
I would like to hear of other Trimaran owners in major storm conditions and explain their view of trimaran handling seamanship.
I am Going offshore next year - planning the future.

Have heard:
A series drogue takes a long time to retrieve, but once deployed more dependable.
Sea anchor best from just one point off the bow. Keep it simple.
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Old 28-08-2008, 08:00   #199
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Searunner tonnage

Hi,

I am assessing the chances of getting a Searunner registered as a commercial fishing boat. In order to use the formula the coast guard have for assessing boats, I need the gross tonnage of a searunner. This is worked out using the following dimensions:




where

1. DIMENSIONS. The dimensions, L, B and D, are the length, breadth and depth, respectively, of the hull measured in feet to the
nearest tenth of a foot. See the conversion table on the back of this form for converting inches to tenths of a foot.
LENGTH (L) is the horizontal distance between the outboard side of the foremost part of the stem and the outboard side of the
aftermost part of the stern, excluding rudders, outboard motor brackets, and other similar fittings and attachments.
BREADTH (B) is the horizontal distance taken at the widest part of the hull, excluding rub rails and deck caps, from the outboard
side of the skin (outside planking or plating) on one side of the hull, to the outboard side of the skin on the other side of the hull.
DEPTH (D) is the vertical distance taken at or near amidships from a line drawn horizontally through the uppermost edges of the
skin (outside planking or plating) at the sides of the hull (excluding the cap rail, trunks, cabins, deck caps, and deckhouses) to the
outboard face of the bottom skin of the hull, excluding the keel. For a vessel that is designed for sailing and has a keel faired to
the bottom of the hull, the keel is included in D if the distance to the bottom skin of the hull cannot be determined reasonably.

I'll do the maths - if someone can just give me some numbers for B1, B2, D, D1. And I guess L1 is the length of the main hull, L2 the length of an outrigger. Any Searunner will do - I haven't figured out which size to go for ( it depends on the price of the license! ). Rough figures will do, for a ballpark feasibilty study.

Many thanks!

John P
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Old 28-08-2008, 16:31   #200
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"I am assessing the chances of getting a Searunner registered as a commercial fishing boat."

What are the pros and cons of this endeavor?

Jim
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Old 29-08-2008, 07:48   #201
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Tonnage

My 34' Searunner built to plans is documented at 5 tons gross and 5 tons net.
Tonnage measurements can be very tricky. I am a commercial fisherman, and we have to deal with "ad-measurements" any time we make structural changes to the boat. It is a real headache. We have had a few go around's between the CG and the guys we hire to do the figures. In our case we have a 125' x 33' x16' deep boat. It would probably measure out to 4 or 500 tons. But there is a saying "with enough money, you can get any boat under tonnage." We have a lot of tricks built into the boat to keep it under 200 tons. Over 200 tons and you have to have licenced Master, mate and engineer. We are 197.5 tons....it has nothing to do with the weight of the boat......it's an old thing about cargo capacity or some thing.....:-)
Not that any of this relates to a Searunner.....well it's all going to sea I guess. Maybe I will throw in a few photos just for fun. This is the boat I have been on since it was built in 1980......thought I would be retired by now...we fished king crab for 5 years then converted it to an offshore mid-water trawler. We work in the Aleutian Islands, north into the Bearing Sea. I work a 2 month winter season (Jan/Feb) and two month summer June/July....
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Old 29-08-2008, 09:33   #202
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I would suspect it depends on the fishery. Jmolan can probably offer the most advice. My concern is more basic. Fishing boats go out to where the target species is located, find them and catch them, load them aboard and bring them back to the dock for offloading.

The speed going out and returning isn't that much of a problem, under sail, but most of the time you will be departing very early and coming back later in the day. The winds are not necessarily cooperative. Using diesel, you are limited by the hull speed of the boat, unless you have an extraordinarily powerful engine that can get you on a plane. Therefore, you would be limited to under 8 knots. That might be a factor.

Second, once you've boated the fish, now what do you do with it? Commercial fishermen must either get home quickly or have a way to ice down or refrigerate their catch. That means weight for ice, salt, and insulation. The payload for a Searunner is pretty fixed. Less payload, less profit. More loading over design specs, greater risk of damage from rough seas, delay in returning and possible loss of value of the catch.

If you are going out for just a few fish, say as a charter fishing boat for salmon trolling, that could be a viable option. But if coming home with a big catch is the objective, then perhaps a monohull schooner with big fish holds and commercial-grade refrigeration systems might be better. Years ago I met a suy who had been an executive in the frozen food industry, who built a sixty-or so-foot schooner to fish for tuna off of Hawaii. It was a schooner to allow powerful sized sails in a single-hand vessel, with large deck space for access to the fish holds.
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Old 30-08-2008, 03:30   #203
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Jimske - the pro's and cons have been discussed here: Commercial fishing trimaran? - Boat Design Forums

I'm happy to discuss it further, but there's no reason to repeat what's there.

Jmolan: Thanks for that. I have guessed the dimensions for a 40' searunner, and arrived at a gross tonnage to 11.5.

I have a meeting the the CG surveyor guy along with the Marine Fisheries Agency the week after next. I told them about the idea and they are keen to help - they'll help me figure a way round the complexities. The rules were made up without consideration for sailing boats, but we might be able to benefit from the odd loophole.

Roy M: The delay in responding was because I have been out on a commercial line fishing boat, a cat as it happened, to study how they do it. They're making good money, but their costs, engine, fuel, maintenace are huge too. The plan is to do line fishing in good weather, hoping to bring back a ton of fish at a time, put on ice as we catch them, going out for 3 days at most.

I reckon a Searunner 40 can carry a ton, don't you? And I expect we'd hardly ever have to endure anything as 'severe' as a force 6, so I doubt there'd be damage from rough seas, even loaded.
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Old 30-08-2008, 10:52   #204
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SR31 tonnage.

pir8ped,

Our first SR31 was documented at 11 tons.

Sounds like there's plenty of leeway in the calcs.

Cheers.

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Old 30-08-2008, 11:10   #205
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Thanks Cat,

There's this sort of leeway:

3. DECK STRUCTURES. For most vessels, the formulas listed above account for the volumes of deck structures such as cabins
and deckhouses. However, if deck structures are excessive in size, the gross tonnage is calculated by adding the principal deck
structure tonnage to the gross tonnage(s) of the vessel's hull(s). Deck structures are considered excessive in size if the tonnage of the
principal deck structure calculated using the formula below is equal to or exceeds the gross tonnage(s) of the vessel's hull(s).

Maybe whoever measured your boat included the volume of the deck structure. Whether the cabin is excessive may be arguable. Fortunately, it seems that those who have to uphold the rules favour my ambitions!
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Old 30-08-2008, 12:05   #206
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Tonnage calcs.

pir8,

Yup, it would appear that you're favored by the leeway.

Good luck with it.

Kit.

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Old 30-08-2008, 12:16   #207
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I guess I'm confused about where you're going to store a ton of fish in ice and salt. The bilge isn't deep, and significant weight in the floats isn't a good idea. Are you going to store it on deck or convert cabin space to stowage? You CAN store a ton, though, without affecting the stability or performance of the boat, if it's a 40 footer.
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Old 30-08-2008, 14:34   #208
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I think a 40ft Searunner would make a great fishing vessel. Good flat large area's on deck. Fore and aft area's for ice boxes. And a cheaper way to get into a clever stable fishing platform. South Pacific is all about fishing on multihulls around the islands.
.... only one thing ... isnt a beautiful searunner meant to sail off on an ocean to discover your dreams.
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Old 31-08-2008, 21:40   #209
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Storage - I am thinking of using the space fore and fat of the cockpit, putting big boxes into that space. Awkward for getting in and out of the boat. Kiss goodbye to headroom in those parts, but then I'm pretty short The commercial 10 metre cat ( motorised ) that I have just been on had 3 boxes that can contain 3-400 kilos of fish and ice each. Maybe I'd make do with a couple of those.

I'd hope not to wreck the boat as a cruiser, or make it permanently stink of fish. Yes, I can think of some nice places to sail to, but I have a family that have tried cruising several times, and they just don't like it. They still need feeding though.
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Old 01-09-2008, 10:39   #210
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pir8ped: It sounds like you are completely hooked. Have you considered this option? Contact John Marples and share you idea. He and Jim Brown created a low cost multihull fishing boat design, many years ago, using elements of the Constant Camber technique. Instead of taking a perfectly good cruising boat and butchering it into a serviceable fishing boat, you could make a quick and functional hull and rig combination that is intended for commercial fishing from the get-go. You could build insulated, easily cleaned fish holds, with insulated hatches. The rig could be set up for hauling fish boxes out of the hold to the dock. The engine could be placed wherever it worked best, and include pumps and compressors and beefy alternators to give you the accessories that make fishing more profitable. Then, with all the money you save on diesel, you could buy a nice cruising Searunner and build a good shower to wash the fishy smell off of yourself when you want to go play with your family.

Here are a couple links to check out:

http://www.adirondackgoodboat.com/goodboat.html
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1510/is_1987_Summer/ai_5042008
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