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Old 09-04-2013, 19:56   #1981
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Nothing in Southern California. Perhaps in the Delta area of San Francisco Bay.....
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Old 09-04-2013, 20:12   #1982
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The best I found was that in moss landing but if I buy the paint else where they want top add 100 per gal. But it still seems cheaper down there.
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Old 09-04-2013, 22:34   #1983
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Have you been out to the Napa Valley yard? It's almost like a searunner boneyard and I would think it would be reasonable.
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Old 09-04-2013, 22:36   #1984
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Randy they want 548 to hull out and 40.00 per day yard rate.

Thanks
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Old 10-04-2013, 07:58   #1985
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Searunner 31...

RIGGING REPLACEMENT:
For replacing standing rigging, our double spreader rigs have an advantage. We can climb the rig and carefully remove the uppers from a bosun's chair, (lowering them with a messenger string), while the intermediates hold the mast up. Then, once on the ground, duplicate them, (preferably with 316 wire & StaLocs), and put them back up. Next... just work your way down the mast the same way.

I originally rigged ours with NO wires holding up the mast. I had just 4 Polyester ropes, tied from the mast head to the 4 corners of the hull, and pulled sorta tight with a truckers hitch. Until I got the upper wires rigged up, my trips aloft with a 3/1 block & tackle, were quite exciting! If a dinghy went by, I would be swinging around in a springy 2 or 3' circle, as the ropes stretched.
This temporary system worked fine for our first time rigging. On the upper wires, we started out with the "upper ends only" rigged up, and the lower ends left 4' or so too long. Then, using a crane, we stood the mast with just rope holding it up. After careful measurement to get the upper wires correct in length, and exactly the same, we rigged the bottom StaLocs & turnbuckles.

Assuming you have the old wires, you only have to duplicate them as described.

Regarding size...
316 grade SS is weaker than the old standard 304, but highly recommended nonetheless. I would ask John Marples if the old dia is still sufficient, or whether the upgrade to 316, necessitates an upsize in the wire.

ABOUT SYNTHETICS:
In discussions about synthetic VS SS wire, the often omitted problem with DUX is if the boat must go through a large temperature range. Where I live in NC, it can change 100 degrees F over the year, and my actual sailing temperature range might be 60 degrees F of change. (45-105 degrees)

With "wire" on a metal mast, they expand and contract more or less together, so the tune of the rig doesn't change with the seasons or time of day. At least not where I ever noticed it. This is not true with DUX.

We built our boat and launched her in '96, and after > 20,000 sea miles, are about due for a wire change. Still, using 316 SS wire, with all StaLocs, (Properly sealed), we have no rust or meat hooks. The wire looks "perfect", but it has been 17 years, so is on my list, nonetheless. I will re-use the StaLocs...

A couple of years ago I replaced my SS running backs with DUX, and love it for that application. Being so light, it doesn't flop around when in the slack "stored" position.

I considered it for the rest of the rig as well, until I noticed this coefficient of expansion incompatibility between DUX stays and the mast's aluminum extrusion.

I can make up my running backs, and really snug them up good with the folding handle "quick adjust" turnbuckles. I mean TWANG! This is with an afternoon temp of say 90 degrees. IF it was in the mid 50s the next morning, these same runners would be sloppy loose and with two fingers go in a 1' circle! THAT'S how much difference in tune you get over 40 degrees!

With my runners, it is no problem, as I can adjust them by hand in 30 seconds. Also, I change their tension regularly, depending on whether they are being used or stored.

IF I used DUX on the rest of my very tall / skinny double spreader rig, (which is quite tune sensitive), it would be a disaster unless I re-tuned her regularly. (With SS wire, I have re-tuned the rig only twice, in 17 years).

To keep my mast in column, I need my uppers really tight, compared to the intermediates and lowers. Keeping her in tune is easy with wire, year round, and in any temperature, she stays straight. This could not be said with DUX, IF it is stressed as much, over as broad a temperature range, without re-tuning.

Many rigs, (like front stayed triangular rigged rotating masts and such), have slack leewards, OR such a stout extrusion, (often with SS wire diamonds), that these changes in tune could be tolerated. I know that a lot of boats do fine with synthetics, and for some, there is a lot to be said for the stuff.

I just want to point out that IF you plan World cruising, with a broad temperature range, (or locally for that matter), AND you have a tall "tune sensitive" rig, like we do, then wire is still the better choice IMO... from hot season to cold season.

On my most important wires, the uppers, I will be switching up a size, and to "Compact Strand" as well. In a fun daysail situation, I can then fly full sail in up to 35 knots of wind, and being a tri, the boat will stand up to it. I don't want any surprises, because it is a colder day than when I tuned the rig!

BTW... When comparing "weight savings aloft" of synthetics, it is a moot point to compare it's weight to SS wire alone. With all of the radar, steps, lights, antennas, etc., that go onto a cruising boat's mast, PLUS the extrusion, the shrouds and stays are a very small portion of the weight of a complete rig. I may over time, switch to lighter running rigging and sails, for a similar weight advantage...

Mark
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Old 10-04-2013, 18:06   #1986
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Mark i emailed john and he said the best thing us probably put a Norsman on the backstay for a quick fix.

I mentioned to him about using the staysail only because.of the backstay for 20 miles, and was averaging 3kts with just it. On a mono been lucky to het s half a kt.

He said even if the backstay would break with all sails up it still wouldnt bring the mast down.

Thanks
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Old 11-04-2013, 07:44   #1987
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by searunner31 View Post
Mark i emailed john and he said the best thing us probably put a Norsman on the backstay for a quick fix.

I mentioned to him about using the staysail only because.of the backstay for 20 miles, and was averaging 3kts with just it. On a mono been lucky to het s half a kt.

He said even if the backstay would break with all sails up it still wouldnt bring the mast down.

Thanks
Sounds like a plan!
M.
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Old 11-04-2013, 20:21   #1988
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Shower Ideas

Just wanted to bring up the topic of showers and the best way to achieve an easy to use maintenance free ish shower in a ply and stringers boat.

On the SR 37 now in Rhode Island the original builder perhaps fitted a well glassed skin over the stringers to make the shower better draining. I somewhat like this idea, but what could get underneath scares me. Others ideas are large fillets on the stringers so they'll drain, but is seems like these types of large fillets will eventually crack free at the edges unless glassed over.

the ideal is not have to sponge out every stringer after a shower. Also on my boat I only have about 8" of space under the sole level to the hull bottom which adds another complication sump wise, but do have standing headroom in a mostly square 27" shower area.

Ideas appreciated.

Jeff
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Old 11-04-2013, 22:35   #1989
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Mix some epoxy with filler to the point it is like thick syrup. Pour it at the low spot of the stringer, where the water would collect. Sand and paint afterward. Priceless! Here's a pic of where I did it in the bilge. I've done it everywhere, despite having a West System boat. Any water falls into the bilge.
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Old 12-04-2013, 07:09   #1990
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

CRUISING SHOWERS:
Assuming an anchored out in the tropics lifestyle...

Showers "down below" are tolerable IF the stall has a very small sump and is in a sealed room, with overhead hatch and really tight door. (Not just a shower curtain)

If the shower room/stall is not immediately vented to the outside, and with a tight door which is kept closed, OR if it drains into the open bilge, then ALL of the residual water in there will evaporate and condense in the cabin, (IF cool enough), OR in higher heat, it along with what we expire, will greatly increase the moisture content in the air. This increases mildew, as well as makes the occupants in their bunks hot and sticky all night!

This is why we shower in the cockpit, air dry towels out there or on the lifelines, keep the gasketed lid to the Levac head closed, and avoid having a trashcan full of wet paper towels. We also keep a dusty dry bilge throughout the boat! ANY source of water down below is avoided, and this pays great dividends in comfort. A dry bilge, even under the engine, makes it clear if you find water ANYWHERE, that there is a leak!

On the larger Searunners, the "crew" generally sleeps in the aft cabin, so this moisture issue is not added to what we expire, AND is in another cabin, so is less of an issue. On the 34 we sleep in the front, so it IS an issue...

For a one off cat, IF one really wants a dedicated shower, I would make it in a "sealed", epoxy/glassed stall, with huge (= draining) fillets on the tops of stringers, and painted with a 2 part paint. Also... it must be vented from a deck hatch, or at least a 24 hr Nicro solar vent. Anything to dry the shower stall, and keep moisture OUT of the cabin!

On Searunners, this "sealed stall" just isn't feasible. It could be done, but only with great complication.

We have, btw, taken discrete cockpit showers tied to a free restaurant dock, with lights all around, during business hours. If you have a bimini to dodger canvass set up, "with a connecting piece", all that is needed is to clothes pin a large beach towel on the "gawkers side" of the bimini. Remember, our heads are below the level of the cabin top!

I have installed some complex stuff on Delphys, but only by default. IMO...
The "simple" solution, (if it really IS one), is always the best solution.

Mark
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Old 12-04-2013, 10:43   #1991
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Johnson View Post
CRUISING SHOWERS:
Assuming an anchored out in the tropics lifestyle...

Showers "down below" are tolerable IF the stall has a very small sump and is in a sealed room, with overhead hatch and really tight door. (Not just a shower curtain)

If the shower room/stall is not immediately vented to the outside, and with a tight door which is kept closed, OR if it drains into the open bilge, then ALL of the residual water in there will evaporate and condense in the cabin, (IF cool enough), OR in higher heat, it along with what we expire, will greatly increase the moisture content in the air. This increases mildew, as well as makes the occupants in their bunks hot and sticky all night!

This is why we shower in the cockpit, air dry towels out there or on the lifelines, keep the gasketed lid to the Levac head closed, and avoid having a trashcan full of wet paper towels. We also keep a dusty dry bilge throughout the boat! ANY source of water down below is avoided, and this pays great dividends in comfort. A dry bilge, even under the engine, makes it clear if you find water ANYWHERE, that there is a leak!

On the larger Searunners, the "crew" generally sleeps in the aft cabin, so this moisture issue is not added to what we expire, AND is in another cabin, so is less of an issue. On the 34 we sleep in the front, so it IS an issue...

For a one off cat, IF one really wants a dedicated shower, I would make it in a "sealed", epoxy/glassed stall, with huge (= draining) fillets on the tops of stringers, and painted with a 2 part paint. Also... it must be vented from a deck hatch, or at least a 24 hr Nicro solar vent. Anything to dry the shower stall, and keep moisture OUT of the cabin!

On Searunners, this "sealed stall" just isn't feasible. It could be done, but only with great complication.

We have, btw, taken discrete cockpit showers tied to a free restaurant dock, with lights all around, during business hours. If you have a bimini to dodger canvass set up, "with a connecting piece", all that is needed is to clothes pin a large beach towel on the "gawkers side" of the bimini. Remember, our heads are below the level of the cabin top!

I have installed some complex stuff on Delphys, but only by default. IMO...
The "simple" solution, (if it really IS one), is always the best solution.

Mark
Our option to the on board shower is to use the forepeak for our head shower combo. I put heavy filets of epoxy putty and glassed the floor in. I have a high side vent and large hatch above. I use a sealed shower sump and a 4gallon elec hot water heater. We do have a stern castle stateroom and 8 hatches on deck. We do carry a bug sprayer shower and use it to wash off sand etc. The key is ventilation in the tropics.
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Old 12-04-2013, 11:17   #1992
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

So by sealed you mean just the fore and aft doors not to say fill the space between the stringers with foam and cover that with thin ply and glass to have a a smooth surface?

Here are some pics of the area. They are taken looking aft where the head will be aft of the last bulkhead with door cutout and the shower in between the 2 bulkheads with door cutouts. not sure what kind of doors/ curtains I'll use. The inboard hull side is shorter as the bridgedeck come in here and just inboard of it is the chart table up on the bridgedeck. So I can square this side up to the floor perhaps, but what to do in the v shaped are between the short hull side and floor? Maybe pour foam down in there.

I find when anchored or moored anywhere but relatively remote areas, showering in the cockpit is a hassle and I really want a proper shower.
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Old 12-04-2013, 11:19   #1993
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Doggone

you boat really seems to have a lot of nice features. When did you build it?
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Old 12-04-2013, 13:01   #1994
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Doggone

you boat really seems to have a lot of nice features. When did you build it?
We bought her in 98 in a lien sale at Napa marina. 3 open hulls attached with underwings done. my third Searunner so I had an idea of how we wanted to finish. Launch in 99 and left for Mexico in 2001.
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Old 14-04-2013, 09:24   #1995
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Mark, you or anyone else who wishes to go "up one size" on their wire should check with the designer as well as Brion Toss. Brion told me it is the most common question, and a big mistake.

As far as your concerns about expansion/contraction with Dux. I thought that was covered back two yrs. ago. And it was you asking the questions. Pre-load..... See link below. Your claiming to be be an expert (or sound like it anyhow) in rigging and the synthetics does not wash my friend. You have rigged a couple synthetic running backs. You have not rigged a full rig and used it, yet you go on like you know all about it. With your level of influence here, I believe you are doing the rest of this forum a dis-service.
The stuff works, hundreds of boats are fully rigged with it. It is not wire, try to get past comparing it.
As far as weight not making any difference. Again you are dead wrong. My old SS rigging weighed in at 60Lbs. my entire new rig came in at 15 lbs. That is weigth aloft. I traded my Radar for a big anchor.... It mad a huge difference in the boats behavior, and light airs it
sails with no discernible wind.....:-)
I do not wish to get in a tit-for tat cat fight. I have no horse in the race.

http://www.briontoss.com/spartalk/sh...ght=synthetics
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