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Old 14-02-2013, 17:38   #1831
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kettlewell View Post
Not a Searunner owner, but love 'em, and own I think just about everything Jim Brown and John Marples have ever written. I did own a 32-foot plywood French cat for many years that was a cat equivalent of a Searunner in many ways, and it was powered by a 9.9 HP Yammy outboard. One thing we noticed is that she would keep ghosting in almost no wind long after any of our boats that have dragged props around. We were stuck one time three days from Bermuda in a windless high with a massive gale coming along with a bunch of boats coming up from the Caribbean. The gale was so nasty that several boats used up all their diesel trying to get in before the storm, and we were down to next to none in the gasoline department, but our boat would just keep inching forward despite the fact that smoke went straight up. I really couldn't understand what kept us going, but in three days we made something like 100 miles and got in just before the storm while a bunch of boats with inboard diesels got caught out and a few suffered serious damage, injuries, rollovers, etc. The total lack of drag with an outboard is an offshore advantage at times.
Hi John,
I've read all of your articles from back in the Multihulls Magazine days, (along with all of the others that they, and Jim or John ever wrote as well).

If memory serves, I saw your "Echo" once at Lady's Island Marina in Beaufort SC? I agree, sort of like a Searunner, only a cat. It was a very intelligent design. I understand that family size requirements turned you to the "dark side", (monohulls)... That's OK, you're always welcome here!

Good input:
I agree that many small multihulls, particularly cats like yours, and my friends on Magic Carpet, lend themselves to small OB kickers so well, that they make a lot of sense. The minuses are fewer than on a tri, and the pluses of "0" growth, and "0" drag when raised, really change the equation in their favor. Also tris lend themselves to "single" inboards better than cats do. Cats have to either resort to inboards in a nacelle with a single outdrive, OR twin engines with twice the complication.

Even given my stated preferences on Delphys... On your Echo, I would've opted for OB power too. OB power was just was right for the design.

One point about inboards & their extra drag... It IS considerable on fixed props, (WAY more than they think), and there is still "some" on steeply angled shafts WITH a folder, but in our case, and what works best regarding drag...

We used a "Flexofold" which was tested by MIT to be the "slipperiest" and most efficient too. More efficient than a fixed prop, or the Gori, Max Prop, Martec, etc.

We have a molded in & carefully faired shaft log, with faired in "bonded" strut, and a totally horizontal shaft, that doesn't disturb the water flow at all.

With the prop folded... The drag induced by such a svelte drivetrain would be virtually UNmeasurable. Now, my rudder to skeg hardware, with their nuts n bolts sticking out, THAT does slow us down a bit. Wish I could fix that!

Just a thought...
Mark
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Old 14-02-2013, 18:40   #1832
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Mark: Try this: Just a little bit of Z-Spar Splash Zone over the bolts and molded like clay. It's easy to pop off when the haulout arrives. I used it on the cutlass bearing strut as well so I could bottom paint it. No nuts or bolt heads anywhere.
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Old 14-02-2013, 18:46   #1833
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

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Originally Posted by Kettlewell View Post
It seems like a diesel-electric set up might be a good way to go. Electric drive with a diesel generator that can run at optimum speed and efficiency to either run the engine or charge the batteries, or both.
I like it!
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Old 14-02-2013, 18:57   #1834
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Jimske, I investigated the electric drives. The problem is that there is an optimal size vessel that can carry the weight of the diesel engine, the fuel tank, the built-in generator, the electric motor, AND a very large battery bank to make it cost effective and electrically efficient. The larger boats might do it, but a 31 or 34 just don't have the payload margin. Pound for pound, for longevity, ease and flexibility, a small diesel inboard may be best. Someday, when lithium ion (or other options) batteries become more prevalent, it might be a more efficient concept for us. But right now, with all the problems of laptops and the new airliners bursting into flames, it's probably better to wait.
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Old 14-02-2013, 18:58   #1835
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Diesel - electric works for mono's but not tri's. That is what I reckon but could be proved wrong. Light diesel yanmars that are small in size with high RPM 3600, they become the forward propulsion a generator a heat source with very low carbon. The problem with just electric is the cost of ideal batteries, if you could afford them you wouldn't have a Searunner and even then you are limited to a lesser range.
These Searunners from 28 ft to 44 ft really are quite different animals and designed for different purpose. I like my 37 footer it suits me just right inside and out. And i do like the way she sails on the wind and off the wind in light airs and heavy. In fact that Jim Brown guy is a bit of a genius.
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Old 14-02-2013, 21:10   #1836
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Love the banter outboard over inboard.

I looked into the electric inboard thing and it is just too much weight and you would need two wind gens to keep the thing going...Some oil company needs to stop buying all of the battery ideas and give the world something to work with.

New topics.....

One: Water lines!
I know we do not have much or any other SR-25 followers but, I have no idea how to mark out my waterline for paint and booting. a ways out from slash.
Any advise?

Second topic for open discussion: Wind Vanes!
I know most folks are going with electric set-ups. My SR 31 had the brown designed vane, it worked good but seemed a little heavy. I do not plan on having much extra Amps at the end of the day so any power draw is out in my book.

Should I build the SR Designed wind vane or can someone point me to a design that is lighter weight and will work on my mini-runner?


@@@Will,
do you have any photos of the side-outboard mount that was on Blue Moon?

I'm trying to adapt some controls to a Yamaha 4hp and keep the transom mount, but is a pain in the ass. it might be faster to build a sled set up and control from the side
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Old 14-02-2013, 22:27   #1837
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by rossad View Post
Thanks for the thumbs up about new zealand. I do find americans very hospitable even more so than new zealanders.. thats the ones that come visit us ... not sure about the ones back in states...
What a great thread. If you dont have ding dong how could anyone ever learn something.
No i dont want to challenge Cavalier MK2 to that race i would surely loose and whats more would hate to wear a pink dress.... but enjoy and send in some good pic's for us guys to pick on.
It is summer here right now and hot perfect sailing weather. i run a sea kayaking business that keeps me busy right now. I shall head out to Barrier in a week or two when the crowds lesson.
Lucky us we found ourselves a Searunner.
By the way the more times the word Searunner used in these threads gives a better rating for Searunner search engines and helps the brand... now thats a new word.....
Hey Rossad, low drag means not having to dress in drag alright! I had a vision of all these tris loaded up with 50 gallon barrels of jetisonable fuel sailed by macho guys desperate to avoid showing some thigh......
It wasn't pretty and wouldn't be a fun cruise though definatly funny...... We don't put much wear and tear on our outboard, the durability of a diesel would really be wasted on us and is another thing to kick around when equipping a boat. If you have to motor a lot a diesel isn't wasted.
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Old 14-02-2013, 22:39   #1838
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

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I would also like to see some pictures of the boat. It sounds like the builder was pretty innovative. It would be interesting to see how it went. It doesn't sound like it was "traditional" or was constrained by Jim's designs.:
I did some searching and found pictures of it
http_ _beta.marine motion.com-stations...
The stern looks like it's riding nice and high.
the engine room mst be less than 3 ft fore and aft,so theres no room for the motor to tilt.
The only thing I can figure is that it goes directly up and down.
I can't figure out how the motor would be flushed between uses.
You can't just leave an outboard in the saltwater all the time can you?
Interestingly, it says under power,cruising speed is 7 kts and max speed is 8.5
With a 60 hp outboard
It shows that you aren't going to exceed hull speed under power,no matter how many horsepower you throw at it.
It's got a kick up rudder.
It must not have a minikeel or skeg because it shows it in really shallow water
The name of the boat was Comocean"custom 39ft.searunner"
Two roller reefing headsails
I would really like to see more pictures of the engine room
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Old 15-02-2013, 10:43   #1839
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Looking for a model Searunner A-frame 31
Or someone who could build one.
Somewhere around 2-3 ft long.
Anyone
Thanks
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Old 15-02-2013, 11:10   #1840
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

A vertical axis vane is smaller and lighter than the rotating vane. There are plans on the internet if you look around. The Wharrams sell plans for one built mainly of wood. Many use stainless bike cable linkage for less weight and mounting the vane wherever you need it. That said I have a Searunner vane made of aluminum I haven't played with yet that is pretty light but is big. If you are in a storm you'd have to stow it somewhere....

For the waterline why not use the plans? You could mark out the reference points and spring a batten. You could adjust for increased or decreased displacement. Some drag issues aren't so much the rudder bolts but immersing the transom which was designed to have the bottom edge near the surface.....A step extension curving up would help reduce drag in this case. A kick up stern section with the rudder is one idea.

Trisailor why not make the model yourself? You would need a few of the plan sheets but not patterns. You could use the plans for patterns and enlarge copies to whatever size you want the model. Aircraft model birch ply is available in really thin sizes and is what to use. If you are planning on RC sailing it should be epoxy coated just like the real thing. There are modeling forums and threads that cover the process and it would be good big boat practice.
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Old 15-02-2013, 15:45   #1841
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Talking Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

I guess I'm a lazy old codger.
I am working on my 31 and that is taking most of time.
I just want a model to look at during this cold winter.
Sailing time will come around someday
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Old 15-02-2013, 20:04   #1842
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

I took a look at the pictures of your boat in your profile.
Nice!
I want to build a model RC searunner too.
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Old 15-02-2013, 20:23   #1843
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalier MK2 View Post
A vertical axis vane is smaller and lighter than the rotating vane. There are plans on the internet if you look around. The Wharrams sell plans for one built mainly of wood. Many use stainless bike cable linkage for less weight and mounting the vane wherever you need it. That said I have a Searunner vane made of aluminum I haven't played with yet that is pretty light but is big. If you are in a storm you'd have to stow it somewhere....

The Wharram vane is a lot like the one someone had built for my SR in the 1980's I do not have it but it looks RAD! Anyone have experience with a vane like this? Is it worth building one?

Can some folks post some photos?
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Old 16-02-2013, 04:58   #1844
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

I am still new to this forum and have not figured out how to view photos,unless they are attached to a post. BTW my thanks to all of you with your collective experience. You have helped me a great deal.
Gerald
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Old 16-02-2013, 06:17   #1845
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Those wind only vanes don't have a lot of power. I find it hard to believe they work on larger wharram a despite the claims. I can see it working OK on boats to maybe 30 feet or so. for larger boats you need the power of a water servo like the Aries or monitor or a trim tab setup.
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