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Old 29-01-2013, 22:03   #1681
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

With all the talk on sails you guys forgot one of the most important ones.
THE SKY BLOTTER this spinnaker can only be flown on a multihull.Mine is 45on hoist and 37 foot.Will post photo later
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Old 30-01-2013, 06:20   #1682
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

I really want to see that skyblotter!
One project that I am into at present,is new windows for my hard dodger.
They got totally opaque.
I tried polishing and the 1/4" Lexan is too far gone.Too many years in the sun with no window covers.
I'm considering switching to Plexiglass of the same thickness.
It doesnt seem to have that problem as much.
I know that Plexi isn't as strong,but the windows are small and they are nuts and bolts windows.

I also suspect that one reason I can't polish these widows is because the lexan I used, had some sort of scratch resistant and/or UV coating that makes it impossible to polish.
If I get Lexan again,should I just opt for non coated?
Or is plexi a better choice?
I want these things to be completly clear and stay that way.
Otherwise,they are more of a liability than an asset.
This time,I was thinking to make snap on covers to shield them from the sun for the 99% of the time the boat isnt being used.
I love the hard dodger.You never have to close the front hatch.
I would suggest to anyone building one,to include an opening front window.
Mine slides out,and is completly removable.
A must for anchoring out in the tropics
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Old 30-01-2013, 06:39   #1683
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

[QUOTE=Sea Otter Jim;1143463]With all the talk on sails you guys forgot one of the most important ones.


Very true!

Our relatively small spinnaker is a compromise, as it is meant for MOST conditions that call for a spinnaker, (<8 knts app), not VERY light air, (<5 knts app).

Small, like ours, is more manageable, but we may move up in size a bit.

I would not carry several sizes on our 34, but for serious cruising on a 40'er I definitely would.

With the "sky blotter" one would want a pole, which would be even nicer if it was carbon, to ease the hassle of rigging it up, (CACHING $$$), and With a sock, like the ATN "snuffer", it becomes manageable.

The issue to me is not about boat speed, it's that in these VERY light air conditions, from astern, you end up cranking the "iron genny", and sometimes huffing your exhaust all day until almost sick. When my heading has been restricted to a "huffing point bearing", while motoring, we have actually resorted to breathing through a wet rag!

Do post the photos!
M.
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Old 30-01-2013, 07:12   #1684
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Does anyone know of solid-wing Searunners from 31'-37' for sale under $10k?
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Old 30-01-2013, 08:00   #1685
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by rossad View Post
Mark
I see you got those same air little vents like mine.
with a gauze on top and they open from the inside
Mine have broken and collapsed inside with the plastic seethrough.
I dont think you can get them or parts any more
I was thinking of replacing them with another kind of vent.
Any recommendations.
Ross

Rossad,
These photos are what I have in vents. ALL WILL LAST 10X LONGER IF IT HAS THE SS COVER! Some models come in all plastic as well. Avoid those, the SS cover is WELL worth the extra expense.

The one on the factory Lewmar hatch is a Nicro 24 hr solar model, (with built in solar panel & battery). It is snap in, and fairly robust. A version of these is still available. IF you use plumbers silicone grease on the snap in trim ring, they don't leak. I have several of these, even on my forpeak & "dry" wing deck anchor lockers. The vent's fan had a reliability issue the first few years. Then on the new batch, I THOROUGHLY, silicone caulked the wire passages between the "O" ring battery compartment and motor housing. PROBLEM SOLVED! This batch of vents are about 15 years old now, and a bit nosier, but work fine. The NiCad batteries are good for a year or two, and FAR cheaper if bought at Radio Shack and the like. Being "snap in", these don't take to being kicked or walked on very well, although I have done both, and gotten away with it. Available at marine suppliers...

The vent next to the roller furling clutch, (and I have 4 of these vents), is a Beckson. I think this is what you refereed to? These are GREAT but passive only, and with the SS cover last decades! Being screw down vents, with a huge "O" ring underneath, they CAN be kicked or walked on. Perhaps you had the all plastic version? Anyway, I was not aware that they are no longer sold. It is a great design. I do occasionally see an old one in U.S. consignment shops, so perhaps that is your best bet there too? These are by far my favorite passive mushroom vent. The two Becksons in the aft cabin, have a High/low Vetus muffin fan (in its own housing), mounted underneath, that is hardwired into the boat. We use these fans only when cooking to exhaust the heat, otherwise the vent is passive. The front two Becksons have an additional deck plate under them, to protect the bunks should I decide to go through another wave. (The first one was enough fun, actually). I never feel the need to cap these.

The version of vent on the aft locker's dry hatch is a Vetus mushroom vent. It is passive too, but being low profile and small, it moves the least air. It is built like a tank, however, so standing on it is no problem. For serious ventilation of a larger area, these would work best ONLY in conjunction with their optional muffin fans. (15 year lifespan on the fan)

Hope this helps...
M.
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Old 30-01-2013, 08:52   #1686
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seafarer24 View Post
Does anyone know of solid-wing Searunners from 31'-37' for sale under $10k?
Just asking but if it was in South America would that be out? How about California or Baja? The reason why I'm asking is not all that many people are able or willing to travel several thousand miles to buy a boat.

So, are you?
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Old 30-01-2013, 09:21   #1687
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Sea Dragon,
About those hard dodger & plastic polishing questions...

Lexan (= polycarbonate) is far stronger and less likely to get cracks at the bolt holes, in drilling them, OR over time. Left uncovered, it yellows quicker, and gets very fine scratches more, but is far less prone to deep crazes all through the panel than Plexiglass (= acrylic).

If they can be covered when not under way, I would go with Lexan. On cabin side ports, Plexiglass may be better, just harder to drill without breaking. If tinted, either plastic will craze far less than if clear.

POINTERS:
Our dodger would still be perfect IF we had known early on to make the snap on covers out of an OPAQUE Sunbrella color, like Forrest Green. We had originally made them of "White" Sunbrella, which only cuts down the UVs, but doesn't stop them. With our full cockpit enclosure, we felt we needed the lighter color's reflective properties. We now have TWO ply covers that are White on the outside, and Forrest Green on the inside. ("0" Sun infiltration, with a cooler color outside!)

btw... the same is true of well vented awnings, sail covers AND the boat itself! White lets about 40% of the UVs pass right through, so with a very dark color on sail covers, VS White, the sails last at least TWICE as long. With grey primer under the white paint, the epoxy surface on the hull does too...

If I live long enough, I will use Lexan again on the 17 year old dodger plastic, BUT... keep it covered 99% of the time. I may go from 1/4" to 3/16" thick, however, to save weight. Our glazing weighs more than the 35# frame!

Be sure to consider that expansion of plastics is FAR more than what they're bolted to, (or recessed in). For our dodger front, that's easily 1/4" of dimensional change, over its 100 degree temperature range. REALLY! We used barrel nuts in the frame, and #10 truss head machine screws with washers, going through holes in the plastic that are TWICE that size, filled with "GE SilPruf silicone", and perfectly centered. NO OTHER CAULK will give you the required 40 minutes of working time. (It must be ordered by the case). Screws must be snug ONLY... NO tighter!

Plexi does polish better, but Lexan can be polished too. It is a LOT of work! You need a Porter Cable RO sander/polisher, and get the full assortment of polishing accessories. This is by far my best boatbuilding tool.

To remove the Lexan's scratch proof coating, (as we did), start by RO sanding the surface with the Porter Cable's soft pad. Use 800 grit or what ever is the finest disc that you can find for the sander. Next wet/dry sand by hand for a day, working up to 2,000 grit or finer. (Use a soft hand pad, with lots of water, and don't sand grooves). The third day use the buffer and compound, like McGuires Scratch-X. This will bring hazed over Lexan back to an acceptable 90% of new. (EXCEPT THE FEW DEEP CRAZES)... I now hit all of my Lexan just a bit, at the beginning of each season, with the buffer and Scratch-X only. It's goodenuff...

IF kept covered "properly", this would not have been an issue. My Lewmar Ocean Series "Plexiglass" hatches, on the other hand, have deep crazes that are FAR worse than the polished out Lexan, and the Plexi's crazes go deeper, and cannot be polished out.

Ventilation:
If I had opted for a faceted dodger, I would've gone with an opening front too. I would have put real safety glass in it, and a custom glazed "glass" factory hatch in the middle section. It would be much more expensive and heavier! I opted for the next best thing, small hatches in the dodger's top. These let plenty of air in, on the sides, in front of the seats where you really need it, and can be closed in seconds. They also "vent" in the rain.

A hard dodger, bimini, & full enclosure, solves the Searunner's bugaboo, regarding the walk over / divided cabin layout. During a week of rain, while waiting out a Bahamian cold front, in a gale, we can sit in the cockpit and read. No more claustrophobia!

M.
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Old 30-01-2013, 09:52   #1688
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Jeff, You asked about Magic Carpet photos...

Of all of the "extended hull beach cat, made into a cruiser" attempts that I've seen, this is the only successful one. It was brilliant in concept and execution, as was their cruise. If I remember correctly, it was a 29'er, stretched at the sterns to 34', with a foam core 5' headroom cabin added. It was kept very light and simple.

In the case of a mainsail driven full roach cat, like theirs, the $10,000 or so spent on the sail & nifty roller furling boom, was money well spent. I would not have circumnavigated in such a boat without it. They may still come in as one of the least expensive SUCCESSFUL circumnavigators in the last 20 years?

As you see, my friend Chris is a tall, 60 something year old guy, and 5' headroom was fine for him over their 10 year voyage. He kindly convinced me of the advisability of installing a windlass on our boat, before it became the only option, not after.

Smart folks with a really nice boat...
Currently cruising their home port on the Great Barrier Reef.
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Old 30-01-2013, 09:58   #1689
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Plexiglass (acrylic) windows don't have to be drilled. I have only used plexi for 35 years. The crazing isn't that structural until you get about 10 years on them. Lexan clouds, so would only be useful for my opening overhead Bomar hatches (which is what they come with). I made mating inboard and outboard bezel rings out of 1/2" Baltic birch ply (it has more laminations, no voids), well coated with epoxy, primer, then the interior ones are glued into place. I use 3M 4000UV as the sealant, which allows it to be removed more easily when it's time to replace them. I secure the outer rings with ss screws, filled with epoxy/phenolic spheres which allow me to sand the outside of the rings to locate the screws, poke out the lightweight filler and remove the screws, then use a sharpened putty knife to remove the rings. It makes seamless windows with no fasteners and no leaks. After cutting the plexi with the plastic-cutter blade of a jigsaw, I file the edges and "break" the edge with sandpaper. Then I use the gas torch to gently melt the edge to relieve stress from later cracking the plexi.
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Old 30-01-2013, 10:16   #1690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maren View Post

Just asking but if it was in South America would that be out? How about California or Baja? The reason why I'm asking is not all that many people are able or willing to travel several thousand miles to buy a boat.

So, are you?
I may be by summer. I'm mostly concerned with finding a good platform to build off of. My well-equipped 35' monohull sank and I salvaged nearly all the rigging & deck hardware from it.
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Old 30-01-2013, 11:16   #1691
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Seadragon, I would agree with Roy on plexiglass, there are fighter canopies from WW2 still in clear good shape. Lex won't break but it does yellow and cloud. Without the coating it is very soft and easily scratched but as mentioned very hard to polish, the coating also has UV inhibitors to reduce the yellowing so if you use it go that route. It is more expensive too. Whichever route you go make sure you get the good quality. There are many different grades and manufacturers, distributors tend not to mention this. If you use acrylic get cast not extruded.

I used a different no screw installation that is easy to do where the overlapping window is fastened in place with special commercial architectural 2 sided tape and adhesive caulking, I do like the trim look of Roy's approach too.

In the NW especially with all our Islands and channels the furler really makes sense as you do need fewer sails. One thing I did to save money was convert hanked jibs to luff tape, easy if you get a inexpensive machine. If you don't have the tall mast take a hint from Jim Brown and use the genoa for a furler. We have a heavy lapper for when the wind will be strong for awhile and a genoa which really is a help in our light summer winds. If you have to it will roll up small and still take you to weather despite the less than perfect shape. Buying used sails try to get flatter cuts and triple stitched, most out there are fuller ones from monos. If you look for a larger boat's #3 you will get the heavier construction and flatter cut a multi needs.

We use a Hood Seafurl 5 which is really well made and durable. it has nice performance features like a double grooved luff and removable drum if you want to go racing. Price wise they are very competitive.
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Old 30-01-2013, 11:47   #1692
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

It's too bad glass is so heavy.
That would be the ultimate in clarity .
I could use safety glass in the front window,but I think a good solid green wave might smash it if hit square on.
It's just a flat panel,not rounded like an auto windshield.
I like the strength of Lexan,but it really gets cloudy,which is a bad quality in a windshield.
All my boat windows are 3/8"tinted plexi,but I want the dodger windows completly un-tinted and clear.
Maybe using the torch idea,an electric soldering iron could be used to melt the inside of the holes drilled in the plexi to help stabilize them.Your plywood gaskets are nice Roy,but they would limit the visibility in the dodger windows on my boat
All these compromises.....
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Old 30-01-2013, 12:14   #1693
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Actually plexiglass is more clear than glass. I'd skip the holes.....I've seen 1/4 plexiglass specified on Cross tri plans over 40 feet, 3/8 is really thick.
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Old 30-01-2013, 12:41   #1694
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

how do I post pictures?
I have them as files on my computer.
That would show the situation better
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Old 30-01-2013, 12:47   #1695
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

When you make a post click on the go advanced icon then use the paper clip icon to attach a picture. It will let you search through you computer and select files. for every picture you attach another file then click upload. When that is done make your post. If the image sizes are too large you might have to downsize them first.
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