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Old 15-11-2012, 05:58   #1486
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

This is a few shots of our recent trip out to Cape Lookout. Got a bit of everything... calms, gales, rain, and beautiful sunny days. Just like "cruising". The "boom walking" is dispatching a dirtdobber nest, while under way... Not smart, I know.


SPEAKING OF VIDEOS:

Several years back, we returned from our last two year cruise, from Pensacola Fl, to the Chesapeake, to the Bahamas, down the island chain to Trinidad, and then the fast track back to NC in 12 sea days, (during H season)!

A year later... I spent months and thousands of dollars making a "hopefully" marketable, DVD. It started out as 16 hours of Hi-8 home movies, that I had professionally digitized and edited down to a 4 hour long, two DVD set. It is still a bit "home movie quality", but I may add better narration from start to finish, to make it more interesting.
Thing is, my mass marketer guys felt it was "interesting", but too amateur quality, (considering the quality of what's out there these days), so I would have to market it myself, or not at all. It cost me quite a bit per copy, to have these reproduced locally, (unless I go to a bulk copier outfit), so the cost to buyers would have to be $40 + shipping.

I have considered one last burst of tweaks to this looong DVD, then having them copied 10 at the time, before I see if they'll sell. Its a big risk! Now that I'm trying to make a living more at consultations, than hands and knees grunt work, selling these "information products", (like currently on OutRig Media), may supplement my income just a bit.

These "hopefully" marketable information things, and writing books, is a LOT of work! You have no idea. I don't have the computer skills to have edited this 4 +HR movie, myself, and that's why I went to a pro. IF this DVD sells, I would have to sell hundreds just to break even on my out of pocket costs. Only then do I start making anything...

It is a pretty well rounded depiction of what its like, cruising on a SR34. Is there any interest out there? If I get enough positive responses, (those interested could send me a PM with your information), I could finish these up, and mail them out myself.

Otherwise, they'll sit on the shelf...

P.S. This (below), is the "Audio with slide show" that's out there now. The proceeds to "Conversations with Jim Brown", (which is a fantastic series btw), go to Jim...
My DVD in question has slick looking packaging as well, but not having hit the market, I have no photos of it in the computer. Perhaps I can just photograph one...

M.
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Old 15-11-2012, 07:19   #1487
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

This photo is the DVD...

On the subject of Multihulls, Trimarans, and Searunners... I currently have an (as yet unpublished) memoir, that is a bit of a "how too" as well. (My 40 Year Love Affair With Multihulls)... It Has several hundred photos depicting 40 years of this obsession as well. It falls into the same category as the previously mentioned DVD. It will have to self published, IF there is enough interest, that is! I have to sell hundreds, just to cover the cost of publication.
Let me know...

"I was told" that my forte was in outfitting multihulls for a life at sea, and THAT'S what I should write about. The thing is, I know from experience that we're talking about at least a year of sitting at the computer, all day, every day! It is a huge amount of work. Also, nothing is worse for my back than sitting all day.

SMALL MARKET:
The economics of such an undertaking, is such that one has to sell thousands of copies of their book, to even begin to make sense financially, (Unless they have nothing better to do anyway).

Most multihull folks these days, have production boats, and they are factory outfitted with the basics already. In this area, for this majority, I would be putting out ideas that they're not going to use, as the boat's already set up.

The other outfitting... "Making her ready for a long, energy efficient, self sufficient life at sea", would be the crux of the book, and very useful to "some" people. There is certainly a very enthusiastic readership for these ideas, "on this thread" of CF! My impression is, however, (from reading on other threads), that it might be a waste of my time.

My concept is of of utilizing the K.I.S.S. simplicity ideas that these Searunners started with, but combining these with modern material's, (creating reliable, low maintenance structures and systems), with a truly comfortable lifestyle. This may well be too foreign, and of very limited interest to the majority of multihullers out there?

I consider it the rational middle road... Its way more "camping", and less comfort, than the condomaran types are used to, yet it is way more system intensive, and comfortable, than the original SR concept. I think that the lack of basic conveniences and comfort on their boats, is why so few Searunner owners lived aboard, (with no home base), for a dozen years or more, as we did. As I explained to Jim, in "Conversations with...", My systems have been by far the most reliable parts of the boat, with 98% of all maintenance, going to the structure & rig. In NO case would a system failure be more than a temporary inconvenience.

I have tried to pass on as much information as I can here, but a book on these subjects would make the information more accessible to those outfitting their boat, for this incredible life.

Again, IF there is enough interest, I might tackle it.
Let me know. I'm getting tired, but still have to make a living, or at least supplement our income.

Regards to all,
M.
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Old 15-11-2012, 13:39   #1488
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Gosh Mark Johnson I feel sorry for you.
I believe its all so much information too late.
Unless a resurgance happens with the Searunner and CC.
Its is possible to reinvent itself but to do so it needs a centralized web based marketing plateform that creates a new group of people. Young and old and they may build or buy an existing boat their home a change of life a dream and share it with the world. Its about showing these people how (thats where your information is invalueable)
But at this moment of time i believe its all too much too late.
Growth is exactly that ..... more numbers and its more people involvement needed.
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Old 15-11-2012, 17:18   #1489
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

I think the marketing has little to do with it. The Searunner, Piver, home built ferro cement boats are a thing of the past. I get lots of that's so cool you're building a boat from hipster local types. Tell them to stop by anytime.... the visits I have had are from older guys that have made major detours on trips to come see my project.

If you could build a Searunner in 5 minutes without getting epoxy on your IPhone and tweeting about the build and posting say 50 photos to Facebook at the same time; you would totally have a marketable concept.

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Old 15-11-2012, 20:48   #1490
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbat View Post
I like the kickstarter idea or a way to donate funds to the project. We need to get the owners list out of mothball

I sure would like to know how many boats are in my area and just in general. I dream of a 5 Searunner raft up photo of a 25 through 40. I have never see a 34 in the Puget sound.

I know I am asking for complexity but it would be really cool to be able to sort through photo's using key words like "Rudder" or "Wind vain" "Trunk" etc.

I am willing help but my computer skills are limited
Quote:
Originally Posted by md7a View Post
- wooden boat magazine has an extensive register of boats and was very welcoming of my searunner. Might be an alternative to building your own list.
- try Kickstarter for fundraising
Honestly I don't really need money for this. If we got it fully up and running with a ton a folks that would be about 100 bucks a year. The time and expertise is more of the problem. Right now, I'm ripping out the wiring of a friends boat so I can rewire it with another friend who will then get it. Then I'll sail it with him to his place. And I do have work. But it's a fun project.

Rossad -- I absolutely agree this forum, and in particular this thread, is key. My reasoning is pretty straight forward:
  • There is a ton of information here that applies to all cruisers, not just Searunners (et al). Duplication is stupid.
  • There are more sailors here than there are Searunner owner owners. Every now and then you see one who wants to know more about tris or or our specific type. Strength in numbers.
  • ...most of that can be gotten here but if they're considering building a specific model better to have contact with others building or who have built your boat much in the same way any other owners' group will have more detailed knowledge on your boat. For example, can I use the Hobie 16/18 trailer for the Searunner 20 and if so what modifications, if any, do I need? Specialization works sometimes.

I am personally kind of iffy on Outrigmedia.com (Joe F's business) but totally fine Outrig.org (Jim's project to collect the history of early modern multihulls). There are a few reasons why it bothers me. First, I don't understand why Jim's book is posted on Joe's site -- but then with a caveat to be kept secret. If he is worried about bandwidth, we can take care of that for him. Second I don't understand why Jim's interviews are for sale on Joe's website. If the benefit is going to Jim, I'm fine with that as he is the driving force for the Outrig Project because he lived it. Part of my reason for this is contained within this email. Thirdly, I'm not a web developer, coder, blogger, filmmaker or journalist. Yet I still think I do a more professional site than either what Jim or Joe has.

Slowbat -- Thanks for the ideas
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Old 16-11-2012, 05:16   #1491
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Maren,
When I said that "proceeds go to Jim"... I meant of coarse, after OutRig Media gets their cut for the work involved. (The interviewees do not)... ALL marketing services get a % to cover them for a service that is essential to the process of getting this useful information out there.

Jim is indeed pursuing the OutRig project as originally laid out, (slowly perhaps), while he has also written TWO books. (Editing a book takes longer than writing it). As I've pointed out, this alone may have taken 90% of his energy for a couple of years. Consider that Jim is in his mid to late 70s now, and mostly blind. His computer blows things up huge for him, as well as turns emails into "voice" for listening to. The YouTubes and other videos, are put together, as far as I know, by his talented daughter in law.

Joe Farrinaccio, and OutRig Media have been instrumental in putting these audio and video projects together. We're talking about countless hours of arranging conference calls, editing, designing covers, arranging the copying, making contacts, etc. Joe is an essential part of putting all of this together too.
Much of this stuff is either free, or only at a token charge! (Nobody's gettin rich here)... Only by having dozens of such projects going at the same time, can he make a modest living at it. Everyone else involved is either retired, or we "never quit our day job".

Besides... Information doesn't have to be free to be useful. Many would argue that information that is paid for is actually more accurate, and more useful. During my last two projects especially, I made phone calls to experts from all over, (internationally as well), read hundreds of books, and well over 5,000 monthly publications. This cost quite a bit, and was money VERY WELL SPENT! (Thousands, in fact)... Now, with the internet, more and more information is free, but the information isn't vetted at all, so the total BullShit ratio is over 50%. I have to wear boots...

With information that is paid for... The process of "getting it out there", has several layers that it has to pass first. The BS still gets out there, but the ratio is WAY less than 50%!

In my view, the pittance that OutRig Media charges, (for the items that it charges for), is mostly just covering expenses.

Besides the broad range of pertinent, up to date, multihull information available there... IF there is an archive built, maintained, and added to over time, regarding the modern multihull history, (or "lore" as Jim puts it), It would never have happened without the considerable efforts of OutRig, OutRig Media, and all of the numerous participants. A few of these folks got a token amount of compensation, but most got nothing for their time.

M.
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Old 16-11-2012, 12:54   #1492
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

It would seem marketing is how the world goes around along with lots of emotions.
If you want something go for it. It it doesnt happen it was never meant to. Life is simple and then you are gone forever.
As we share our thoughts and dreams we can rejoice for it might mean something to somebody someplace. How lucky we are to see, hear, smell and touch.
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Old 19-11-2012, 20:25   #1493
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

OK I have finally got over to visit my boat in the storage yard on the trailer. It was medium dirty (lots of blowing dirt around here) but not bad enough I couldn't take some photos.
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First shot is the under wing aft side, stbd. side. Patch I did as I was putting the boat away, lousy attempt at matching color. Looking like I may have to roll the under wing to even everything up
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Looking at the needed boot and frame, I have a ll the parts ordered and sitting in Phoenix, the last 3 day weekend shorted me the supplies I needed for the upgrade/repair.
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Looks like the "cracks" I was informed of are here, will take the sanding, layers of cloth stagger, and paint.
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A spot on the cabintop front. near as I can tell, no fiberglass here, it is the before, and after shots. You can see the grey wood, that was exposed, and the brown wood I just exposed with a pocket knife. I seem to have a few spts like this where the guy missed covering the ply with fiberglass. and the paint is pretty thin here too, not stoked about that.
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Old 19-11-2012, 20:33   #1494
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Well.....that last post did not good all that well, I hit the send button before I was done. See if I can edit some of the text. If not, you can see the areas of the deck. These seem to have not been fiber glassed in the spots where it bumped up. I will probably, patch it for now, and roll it new in March or so when I have a few months here. I would like to get a heavier coat of paint on her....we'll see. What say you all wise ones? what do you see with these blemishes, mountains or mole hills?
I can only stay a few weeks in Mexico this year. Oh well, all in all, it looked pretty good!

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Dux rigging looks good.

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Interior details

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Need to store a boat?....over 800 here, this is just the tailer boat section.
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Old 20-11-2012, 05:39   #1495
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Hi Jack,
WOW! So sorry to see the problems you've encountered with your boat.

It sounds to me like a lot of this work was done by a third party, in your absence. At least for these parts of the project, it creates a big problem, in that you don't really know what was done, where. You need this information, to know how to proceed...

When I was at this stage on Delphys, I had decades of boatbuilding under my belt already, but had numerous "consultations" with John Marples nonetheless. (My point about, "money spent on information, is money well spent"). I wanted to avoid ALL of these issues, further down the line. John was instrumental in my success. He had something that I did not. He had the feedback from hundreds of clients, over 20+ years, regarding the weak spots & problem areas with "one offs", and Searunners in particular.

The Construction Manual has some useful stuff in it for sure, but in many ways is totally obsolete! The boats drawn in there are way too "busy", with too many parts, too much lifeline systems & netting, wet hatches on deck rather than dry, old pre WEST pre LP paint technology, and WAY too light a glass schedule on the most vulnerable 3% of the structure. (The chines, ply seams, elbows, stems/sterns, CB & its trunk, mini keel, rudder & skeg, and ALL RADII)

ALL of my past posts and photos, recounting years of work, applying the three staggered layers of bias cut 10 Oz fabric, (in addition to the previous glass overlaps), on all of these hundreds of feet of radii, and two layers on all ply seams, (with 3 of bi-axial on the center wing seam), is why after 18 years, NO seams have opened up, the CB its trunk, the rudder & skeg, and entire structure is still perfect. I have had just THREE isolated zippers, near a fastening hole, as I previously explained. If water gets in, the wood will swell. Then, even heavy glass will fail.

ALL WEST SYSTEM BOAT PROJECTS SHOULD BE BUILT UNDER A TEMPORARY STRUCTURE! My last two structures were less than $1,000 each to build. (The temporary building from my SC 28 project looks like ****, but still stands after 30 years)!

Epoxy must be kept out of the sun, blush washed off before another coating, and if its after your brand's chemical window, sanded to a 100% glaze, BEFORE coating that next coat, or applying that next glass tape. (WEST brand epoxy = within that day, Systems Three brand = within 3 days)

ON GLASSING DAY... You need several topcoats over the glass, to fill the weave first, then sand to a smooth, flat, glaze. You will touch the glass occasionally... Then 2 or 3 more topcoats, & sand again! What's left is just 1.5 layers thick, over the glass... This gives a 100% buried glass job, and something to sand on later, IF you have a paint failure.

The tip about grey primer being mandatory, was one I discovered on my on. It is an essential step on any EPOXY/glassed structure, IF longevity is the name of the game. The LP manufacturers themselves, now suggest THREE topcoats over the primer, not two.

SO... The weights of fabric mentioned in the manual are fine elsewhere, but NOT on these problem areas I just listed. Here you need the heavy glass I suggest. The surface area I refer to is only about 2 or 3% of the structure, and the additional weight can be made up for elsewhere, with interior flat panels that are made of light weight composites.

Having said all of that, "as an ideal". you have a lot of difficult judgement calls to make. One option,,, You can sell her cheap, as is, with the new owner understanding what they're getting into. You are an honest & forthcoming guy, and I think that your price is already low, so takes a lot of future problems into account. The bones are good. SOMEBODY BUY THIS MAN'S BOAT!

OR, if you decide to keep her, you could just "patch, N go". Slap some resin on the bare spots, then paint them, and use it, as is, with the knowledge that you have a future of frequent maintenance ahead of you.

OR, make her right... If you think that the hull's glass job & paint is well adhered and sound, (it passes the "duct tape test", in hundreds of separate spots), then just re-do the entire cabin & deck. Strip the hardware and ALL old paint. If the underlying glass is sound, passes the tests, and just needs glass tapes, then do just those areas, top coat everywhere with epoxy, & re-paint. If the underlying glass is brittle and yellowed, it will need re-glassing! YIKES! Just don't do the "patch N go", followed by the total re-do. as step A makes the ultimate step B that much more work!

For sure, you need heavy glass on all deck seams & radii, epoxy topcoats, grey primer, and 3 topcoats over it of LP. (ALL applied under a structure, at least until you have the UV barrier, grey primer). Then, as a preemptive strike against the harsh Mexican Sun, put grey primer on the rest of the hull & re-paint her. This is, of coarse, A LOT OF WORK...

This can not be hired done, without constant supervision, Jack! From the way you describe your life, and the way you feel about this much boat work while still trying to make a living, I think it would be great if someone else bought her as a reasonable "project", and brought her up to standards. It isn't the fact that I have a SR 34 that makes me say this, its true. The Searunner 34 is, imo, one of the best boats ever designed! She is just small enough to continue to own into old age, yet fully capable of a circumnavigation, "by way of Cape Horn". (It has been done).

My heart goes out to ya man, and best of luck with it...
M.
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Old 20-11-2012, 06:36   #1496
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

I'm in no way looking to influence the sale of your boat, but my guess is any money spent on extensive repairs will not be recouped.

If you're no longer interested in owning her, tis the season to sell on Ebay and someone can spend a winter in Mexico "cruising".....fixing a boat in an exotic location. I think you have had on Ebay before, but I would think an aggressive starting price with no reserve is the way to go. specify a large say $1000 deposit due with 48 hours of close of auction paid via wire transfer to keep yourself from getting messed around. You have more than enough Internet history via this forum to make any serious buyers comfortable with that.

just my 2 cents. good luck!

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Old 20-11-2012, 12:18   #1497
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Sad news Jmolan
Lets hope for a happy ending some how.
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Old 21-11-2012, 19:48   #1498
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Hey guys, appreciate all the input.....sorry to not have gotten back sooner.

Mark, what you say is true. To go the route of the "ultimate fix" or as you call a multi-generational boat, none of this was known when these boats were being built. The methods and materials were unknown.

All that being true, I would suspect you have one of the few Searunners that have had this treatment, I could be way off here, but I would also bet your boat is easily the ultimate in proper care, as well as hours dude!

The description you give forr doing this deck the right way, would add up to....what would you guess? Build a shelter, strip the deck (again) remove all the fittings? Re-fiberglass, sand fair, fill, sand, fill, more epoxy, more coats, sand, fill..and a multi-layers of paint? 1,000 hours, 2,000 hours? Which is a half a year to a year minimum? And the cost is minor compared to the time needed, and like you say, you cannot have someone else do this. For anyone considering a plywood/epoxy/fiberglass boat, this is where the rubber meets the road. How much time are you willing to give to have it "just right"?

I know every stinking hole in this deck is drilled oversize, filled with epoxy, re-drilled and the fitting properly bedded and backed. How can I justify doing that over for a few little paint blisters>

So the boat owner (me) has to weigh the costs, time, and payoffs. Owning one of the beauties brings up these questions all the time. Weight/cost/is it necessary? Myself, a few cracks in the paint, after 3 years in the hot Mexico sun, do not register with me as being a disaster, or worth all it takes to make sure it does not ever happen again. Its a plywood boat guys, they are easy to patch. Like a surfboard!

I can scrape/epoxy-fiberglass/and roll the decks in 2 to 3 days. Scrub the deck, tape off the non-skip, and roll on a good paint. The last Searunner that came in here, had Sears best weather beater paint....and I can tell; you, they do a lot more sailing than I do. The re-roll every few years, and keep sailing.

The boat is not somehow crippled, or even close to being in trouble. It is certainly not a performance or safety issue. I think it is a matter of preference. How buffed out do I need it? I like clean and solid, and pretty as much as the next guy, but no at the expense of a re-deck.

Mark I really appreciate your input, you are da man on raising the bar to an amazing level. Your craftsmanship speaks for itself, but most folks have no idea how much work it takes to keep one of these boats in the condition that you have maintained. I think I do, I just cannot go there. If I have to stop in three years and scrape/tape/ and roll the deck again, I can live with that. For for me, I am trading off a half year or more of really hard work, bringing it down to a few days to keep it up...... it just don't add up.

I would like to hand this boat off to the right guy, he is out there. Somehow these Searunners went from bang them together and go sailing to, make them look as much like the fiberglass boats as we can.
I originally posted these cracks to show anyone and everyone this is the real deal. This is how boat ownership goes. Always something to surprise you. Being able to scrape/tape/and roll is one of the greatest things about these boats, unless.....well, continuity I guess.

I got this PM from a guy who does not post here, after he saw my recent photos..... I had to smile......

Just send Violet Bush down to the paint store and use some oil base
white to get you back in the water. While your at it jerk that
abortion in your fore peak,patch the hole in your hull and build
yourself a proper bucket and chuck it. Jim has found a cool spot in
Guatemala and we are all going down there before it gets ruined!
Everyone worships Jim Brown but they forget he told us to use
galvanized nails and house paint.
The message was not about building generational boats it was get out
of this oppressive environment and go find yourself a better place.
Anyway, a few little rough spots in ABX exterior ply from the 70's
is NOT a safety concern. I used to use it as bed liner in my work
truck and it lasted years.
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Old 21-11-2012, 20:55   #1499
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Amen.
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Old 22-11-2012, 08:43   #1500
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Jack,
As I pointed out, There are many ways of doing it. What you suggest is fine too, if that's what you want to do... Its not up to me to say.

Thing is, everything does in fact have an up front price. One can pay it "up front", As I chose to when I had a good boatbuilding set up, at my home base, while I was younger, and had a more consistent income... One might also choose the quick n dirty route, and have a blast as well. BOTH WILL WORK!

It is all about personality, patience, and a person's particular circumstances at the time. They would, however, only be "putting off" and spreading out the money and work involved, not making it less. That alone has been my point! I never argued that one was inherently better than the other, just lower maintenance.

The quick n dirty route has one doing FAR more ongoing maintenance, (instead of sailing, diving, and adventuring). But it is at a time when they're already out cruising, not set up for it, are older, with limited or no income, are less energetic, etc.

I did our painstakingly tedious (4 month) windlass locker & installation in Trinidad, partly on a bench on shore, and coating this huge thing on the boat's chart table (for weeks), while anchored out in a 2' to 3' chop! My materials came from several islands along the way, and were HARD to collect. I would have preferred doing it on my table in a shop, vs third world conditions. Early on, I didn't need one though. Point being, battlefield conditions are exponentially more difficult to deal with.

I've been an adventurer ever since I was a mostly unsupervised young child. (broke over 40 bones while I was at it too)... I was a professional mis-adventurer, skilled at "making **** happen". The lesson that I took from this was that: yes, "**** happens", but with extreme care, paying attention, and skill, we don't HAVE to make **** happen. Pain is now my constant reminder, to build and maintain it right, sail carefully, and have "a good trip", as Jim so aptly put it.

Most disasters at sea that lead to one being "escorted off of the planet" early, are not from one disastrous event, they are from a series of smaller events, that add up to something major.

IF one chooses to be an adventurer ALL of their life, the odds for survival into old age are stacked firmly against them, because of the law of averages... I choose to build what I build, and do what I do, stacking the odds in my favor. For others, this cruising adventure may be a short episode in their life, and that rationale doesn't necessarily apply.

Properly applied LP paint does not fail by peeling all over, as it has on your deck. (It just chalks and gets thin). Something else has happened here. If epoxy surfaces are not properly prepared for paint OR glass, this is not cosmetics, its structural as well. These boats are held together by glue! I'm NOT saying that Corazon has these structural problems too, I can't tell from photos. Only careful inspection and testing of hidden interior glue runs, looking at the glass schedule, etc, can ascertain that. I'm just saying that the paint protects the very glue and glass that holds these boats together, so it is more than cosmetics. This is even more important with epoxy boats. Epoxy technology boats start out with vastly superior bonds, vs older boats, (built with Resorcinol glue and polyester resin), but their exterior MUST be kept out of the Sun. A thin layer of white paint over white primer, is not enough, not for the long haul. If the surface of the epoxy fails, and then the paint peels, that is not a paint failure, its an epoxy failure.

With one part paints, they DO fail this way, REGULARLY, so it may be just another sand & paint segment is due. Then... one must hope that the boat orrigionally got enough topcoats of epoxy or polyester, to allow sanding on dozens of times, WITHOUT going into the very thin, single layer of 4 oz fabric, on 90% of the boat.

There is no argument between "paying the price up front", vs "paying it piecemeal", (on a beach, somewhere along the cruising trail). Its just personal preference! It is impossible to really say, but I suspect that both cost about the same, (calculated over decades), both work, and either can lead to a great adventurous life. The second choice works better for those who will do it just a few years, and then sell the boat cheap. The first choice works better for those who envision their boat as a lifestyle choice, prefer to "cruise" when out cruising, and hope to hang on to it.

Unlike older FRP production boats that go for an LP paint job PURELY for the asthetics... With our boats, the aesthetics and a slick "look", have nothing whatsoever to do with the reasons to build a low maintenance boat! It is about spending roughly half again the work in building, in order to have 1/3rd of the maintenance over the life of the boat.

These ideas have been around a very long time, btw... I started my SC 28 in the late 70s, and applied ALL of these techniques in building her. Now, that boat WAS intended to look slick, but I was a different person then. If I had backed off a bit on cosmetics, (like I have on Delphys), it would have been about 20% less work, for sure.

By using the mass production techniques I've written about, however, (pre-epoxying AND sanding to a glaze the entire stack of ply, ALL stringers & frames, etc...) one can have a low maintenance boat, AND really knock them out too. By using my scraps as much as possible, I only had about 2% waste! It is about assembling a boat out of a stack of pre-built & totally mummified parts, (ALL done in a shop on one's table), rather than trying to coat an assembled boat. This always ends in inconsistent results, but with great difficulty, while on ones knees!

It was only when I met my now wife, while living anchored out in Key West, that the SC 28 became way too small, and needed a new owner. In the years that followed, she unfortunately got a one part paint job. From a practical standpoint, this was an irreversible decision, as 2 part paint can not go over one part paint, not even little specs of it... That one decision cut the value of the boat by 400%! They turned a silk purse into a sows ear, and she has gotten nothing but neglect, through various owners, in the 22 years since.

If you have a sound LP paint job elsewhere, and choose to switch to one part on the decks, then this too, is an irreversible decision. Just bear this in mind. May well be right for you though...

I'm not trying to talk you or anyone else into doing one type of boat vs another, OR using one type of paint vs another. My first boat was old technology, and until she was run down at anchor, I was having a blast on her too! With it being a 23' Wharram, and my being in my early 20s, I would have been able to keep up with the maintenance just fine.

All I have tried to do is pass on my experience from 40+ years of building AND bringing back to life old technology boats, as well as applying newer technology to my last two boats, and then living with that decision for decades. Having done both and lived with both, I have a unique point of view on it, and can give a comparison to folks that are in the decision making process right now.
As far as the choices people then make... That's up to them. I have no dog in that fight, and I certainly don't want anyone to feel slighted by these observations, they're only that, not a value judgement.

Searunners, just like all older ply designs, (including mine), can only be made so low maintenance. (Even with WEST & LP paint) These are really complicated structures to paint and keep paint on, and this made it a no-brainer for me... The huge difference maintenance wise, is in a WEST / LP paint, but CC design. THEY are far less complicated, and have no stringers to collect dust & condensation puddles. They also have far fewer frames, and are less "busy" above and below decks. These boats can be painted with a non peeling interior paint, like 2 part "BarRust", and then you have a boat that is truly lower maintenance than a plastic production boat. (AND its a lighter boat that doesn't get FRP boat's hull blisters).

Like I said... Please don't shoot the messenger here. I have no ax to grind or personal preference about anyone elses choices. I have only laid out the ramifications of each choice, to try to help folks that may not see that these are in fact, the ramifications. What I have said in making these comparisons, is not arguable...

As I said Jack, my heart really goes out to you about the problems that you've encountered. If you decide to use shortcut measures, that may well be the right choice for you, under your circumstances. (I can't advise you about extreme shortcut measures though, as its not what I know). I was only trying to pass on what I DO know about, in trying to answer your question. If you had not asked...

Best of luck with it,
M.

P.S. HAPPY THANKSGIVING ALL!
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