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Old 12-08-2008, 17:21   #136
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Love it Searunner nuts....
Rot is something that if air doesnt get to it ... then it doesnt go any further.
There is 2 kinds or rot as far as I know. Dry rot and wet rot.
Both are quite different. Dry is caused by no air circulation. This rot can be harder to find because it could be way down low or along the upper areas. Wet rot is caused by water. Salt water is great because it seems to preserve. But not totally. Once saturation happens it then only gets worse. Rain water is no good at all. Fresh water damp wood - air mixed is the worst. I bought my searunner without taking it out of the water. I went around with a litte screw driver and pocked everwhere on the inside.
On the outside I tapped and pocked... discretely.
Traps are I believe for wet rot: Cockpit corners.
Centreboard case (inside or outside of the ply centreboard area and there is the worm to look for) Window corners. Cabin corners. Tramp attachment. Topside gunwhale. Around any fitting on deck.
Chainplates and any cable going through topside.
Inside the vessel I reckon is hard to find rot. I looked at one searunner and took the water tank out to find rot along centreboard case bottom stringer and ply where you would never expect.
After saying all this its amazing how one can take rot out easily. But it takes time and money. All these searunners are getting older now like the Pivers of which many simply rotted out. Many are found up the creeks around Auckland. wooden ply boats need constant care, they are worth it if it has not gone tooooooooo far.
Yes send us some more pics please
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Old 13-08-2008, 08:28   #137
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Roy – Thank you very much for your comments. The location of the photos from left to right are more or less like this. – N#1 – Hatch above dinette table / N# 2 – Hatch in the wing / N#3 – Rear top of the cabin / N# 4 – The frame of the “window” ( sorry for the window, I do not remember the correct name in English) / N# 5 – Access hatch to the ama / N# 6 – There are no hatches at the platform near the helm quadrant.
In general all the openings in the deck and laterals of the cabin have some rot. I did tap around the rots. They do not seem to be very extensive, but there are quite a few. Apparently the infrastructures (main bulkheads) are ok

Rossad – Thank you also for your comments. It looks that the deck is full of small problems that together might became a big problem. Unfortunately there is very few people that know about trimarans here in Brazil. There are only a few of them. The Brazilians as far as multihulls are concerned, prefer catamarans, and even those compared to monohulls are large minority. Probably this is the reason that I might buy this CC44 for a good price.

Steve – Thank you for the design of the rudder system. The boat was not constructed by the present seller, and he knows very little about the boat. So construction plans are out of question. You mentioned some thing about plans in the E Bay. I am sorry but what is E Bay? About the idea to contact J.Marples let me tell you some thing. When this boat was announced for sale, I contacted J.Marples to get the study plans so I could have an idea of the boat. I received the plans which were very helpful. As I was worried about the rigging , I send him another email asking if he could give me the diameter of the SS cables of the standing rig. His answer was the plans for the sail and rigging plans were US$ 10 + postage. I was shocked with this. Not because of the ten dollars but because he should know that the sail and rigging plans were included in the study plans that I bought from him. I send him another email saying that I already have the sail and rigging plan, which were part of the study plans, with area of all sails, length of all cables, details of the mast and its fitting, etc. etc. but not a word about the diameter of the standing cables. No answer until today – more than three weeks a go.
I saw the 4 chainplates that you mentioned. I was puzzled because I could not figure out their use. Now I know. Thank you.

Manawa – There is a lot of wisdom in your comments. I will take that in consideration. Thank you all - Luis
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Old 13-08-2008, 09:10   #138
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Rossad. - You are absolutely right. I must be “nuts” to face situations like this. Many years ago, when Piver trimarans came out, (by then I was in Africa far way from every thing) I became in love with the design of the Nimble. It was my firm intention to construct one in the first opportunity, however that never happened. For one reason or other I became a monohull sailor, but my love for multis was there. Years later already in Brazil, I saw a rotten James Wharram catamaran. If you are familiar with his designs it was a Hinemoa – 19 feet. For a reason that God might know, I cannot sea a boat dieing. I bought this boat, rebuilt it and that was my first multihull. She gave me a lot o pleasure, but it was to small. I trade this boat for a 26 feet Shutelworth. It was a very good boat but I had to sell her. Today I have no boat. Then – there it was – For sale a CC44. My first love so many years ago (a trimaran called Nimble) was born again. This time not a Piver but a Marple, and remember, besides that I cannot see a boat dieing…
Thank you also for your tips about the places that must look for rot. If the negotiations go further I will post more pictures.
Regards – Luis.
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Old 13-08-2008, 09:29   #139
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Luis, thank you for providing the details. Now we can get to work. Since the dryrot is located at the hatch rims, that tells us that those areas leaked and got frequent wetting. I repair this type of damage by first "tapping" to determine the extent of the rot. Mark this with a pencil, making a border around the entire area of rot. If there are stringers, longitudinal strips of lumber that support the deck, check them for rot, also. If the rot surrounds the hatch, or much of it, it's a good idea to completely remove the entire hatch, using a jig saw. It seems like major surgery, but it's not as bad as it seems. Now, you have a very big hole in the boat. Cut a piece of plywood as large as the hole. Then, cut a second piece, three or four inches (8-10 cm) wider on EACH side. This is the basis for the repair. Assuming the hatch, itself, is in good condition, cut out of the two plywood pieces, the area of the hatch opening PLUS the space needed for the hatch frame that defines the edges of the hatch opening. What you have now created is the replacement piece for the rotted deck, plus a seamless "butt block" that ties the deck replacement to the adjacent solid existing deck. The doubled thickness, surrounding the hatch opening, provides stiffness and support for the opening itself, AND provides an additional glueing surface for the hatch opening rims, which we will talk about next. Epoxy everything, and put a layer or two of fiberglass over the seam of the repair and original deck. Sand it smooth, put on one more coat of epoxy, then sand it for the final stages.

For the rim edges of the hatch, measure the inside vertical lip of the existing hatch cover. Cut some pieces of clear wood (it doesn't have to be hardwood, but it does have to be free of knots) that are long enough to completely frame the inside opening of the hole in the deck. The width of the hatch rim boards must be about a 1/4" (1 cm) more than the inside lip of the hatch PLUS, at a minimum, the total thickness of the two plywood pieces it will attach to. For even greater strength, add an internal frame of lumber around the opening, attached to the plywood, BUT NOT EXTENDING INTO THE OPENING where the hatch rims, themselves, will be fitted. These give greater stiffness and more glueing surface to support the hatch rims. They can extend deeper below the deck than any of the supporting timbers, and give even more stiffness to the opening. I prefer rims that are at least three inches (8 cm) wide for my ama hatches (which are about 1 meter long and 3/4 meter wide).

Because Murphy's Law ("If things can possibly go wrong, THEY WILL") hasn't been repealed, cut all of the hatch rim pieces first, fit them inside the overturned hatch lid to confirm the size of the opening to be cut into the deck. Make the opening in the deck slightly smaller (less than 1 cm on each side) so that the hatch will open and close without pinching. Also, it would be a very good idea to confirm that the hatch AND the hatch opening are true square corners before making any real cuts in the boat. DO NOT ASSUME ANYTHING IS SQUARE OR FLAT - DOUBLE CHECK ALL MEASUREMENTS.

Finally, when the hatch opening is framed, and the hatch fits correctly atop, you will need to address the problems of sealing the hatch against the rim to keep out flooding from waves or heavy rain. I like to use a trim around the deck, surrounding the hatch. The height of the trim is equal to the height of the top of the hatch, itself, with the weatherstrip (sealing rubber seal) in place, AND SOMEONE STANDING ATOP THE HATCH to fully compress the seal. Now you can use a strip of piano hinge attached to the trim and the hatch edge. You will need a way to hold the hatch closed, either from inside or outside. A simple toggle will work or you can buy more "yachty" fittings. It will be at this point you may discover you had not given your atch cover enough space to open and close without hitting the hatch rim. Try and solve that measurement before doing any of the original cutting of the deck.

I will try to get some pictures of typical details for you.
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Old 13-08-2008, 15:19   #140
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Luis nothing wrong with saving a Marples Constant Camber
And being a 44footer its even better.
Life changing directions and new adventures .... Good luck

John M has got everyone picking his brains and after a few decades he gets kind of sick of it...... as we do .....
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Old 13-08-2008, 15:28   #141
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Hi everyone, hope you dont mind me butting in with a different question, but i am
looking at buying a 40' searunner ,what is an average cruise speed under sail and how do they handle blue water cruising? thanks.
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Old 13-08-2008, 15:39   #142
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pman, San Diego/Los Angeles to Hawaii - 10 days. Searunners have been around the world, and have been called the Volkswagen buses of the Pacific. Need more detail?
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Old 13-08-2008, 15:54   #143
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PMAN: 40ft Searunner is a very clever boat. Kind of like a genius design. Its made for blue water sailing and wasted in my books if sailed coastal.
At the time they were designed they were a fast cruiser. But todays standards maybe not so. Even mono hulls are getting real fast.
But then they are more of a racing concept.
I reckon Searunners are the best value for what you get today. I am surprised that others havnt caught on with there value.
Maybe now they are falling into neglect and too much work is involved.
Average Cruise speed thats a hard one.
With 15 knots of wind doing a reach with a full genoa
At a guess maybe 9 knots clean bottom.
Hopefully somebody with a 40 footer will put me right
Good in zepher winds too with the big Spinaker of Jim Browns keep sailing attitude. Save fuel keep sailing and do still 2 - 3 knots in zephers.
I have a 37 footer and it really grows on you.
The 37 comes with 2 options of rig. Racing or Cruising
I have the cruising rig... must be 4 foot shorter maybe.
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Old 13-08-2008, 16:03   #144
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that sounds awesome, i was also wondering if it was common or not to store anything in the outer hulls? dangerous or clever?thanks.
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Old 13-08-2008, 16:09   #145
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Luis
Here are a few pictures showing what Roy has described.

pman
It is pretty easy to hit and maintain 7-9 knots. In 20+ knots I have done 10-12 for hours on end. Top speed I have hit was 14 for a short time. When I look back on 24 hour+ trips on the Great Lakes I see an average of 6-7 knots. In the Lakes many times the wind goes light in the evening so this does include a bit of light air sailing too. The boat moves well in light air. One misconception is that because the boat is capable of doing 10 -12 it does it all the time. We would generally not maintain these speeds at night for safety and to quiet the boat down for sleeping.
I only store light and bulky items in the amas, oars for the dingy, sun awning,fenders, buckets, maybe a sail in each one. No tankage, anchors and chain, or 20hp outboards.
Lot more to reply to but I have to go and will be out till Saturday. I will drop back in then.
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Old 13-08-2008, 16:16   #146
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thanks for info everyone, think i'll try to buy it. sounds great.
pman.
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Old 13-08-2008, 16:19   #147
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Hull stowage

I stow sails, fishnets, empty buckets, oars, tarps, all kinds of light jazz that will normally drive you right out of a monohull as you stack that stuff on deck or in bunks and have to shift it around to sleep etc. Besides the hulls you have 4 large lockers for deck stuff: Tie up lines, andchor gear, BBQ, Propane bottles, gas can etc. One locker is all cleaning supplies.... On the 34 we have a big area fwd. steering that is under the floors you can stow a buch of heavier stuff in the middle of the boat, then all the stowage next to the board in 4 differnt lockers that really center the weight. I think it is a breakthough design. If I was to consider a new boat in 40 to 50 foot range I would consider center cockpit with a big board and build it in any material that is best.. I love controlling everthing from the cockpit. Keep it light out on the ends and sides, and the heavy stuff in the middle and down low. Sit in the middle (or stretch out and lay down) and enjoy the ride. As an example, I took my 34 out to see what it could take one afternoon alone. I was laying down looking up under self steering close hauled and cutter rigged. Just rodding along, the boat felt solid and secure. John Marples told "when the life line stantions go under water it is time to reef...:-) I ripped the mainsail big time. I hove to, tucked in a reef, and sailed on. Never left the cockpit, and I was glad I was alone so I did not have to calm someone down. That to me is real performance. I saild the rest of the afternoon, pulled in under sail to the mooring and tucked things away. No big deal....:-)
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Old 13-08-2008, 16:20   #148
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LIGHT stuff, like sails, surfboards, toys, fishing gear, bikes, etc. We call our floats the "garage". Dinghy masts, oars, spare lumber, spares, and other light goods are also stored there, on the "shelves" created by the underwing storage not used as wet hatches. Heavier gear, tools, heavy spares are stored centrally in the main hull bilge or cabin area next to the centerboard trunk. I store paint, epoxy, gasoline, acetone, etc., protected from moisture in plastic packing boxes, in the wet hatches, also the propane tanks.
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Old 13-08-2008, 16:44   #149
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roy,jmolan, thanks guys i am getting real interested now these searunners sound great, about the last question i have i think it is possible but is single handed sailing easy with the trimaran? thanks heaps guys, pman.
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Old 13-08-2008, 16:51   #150
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Sailing

Just for fun I saw these photos and thought it could show how easy these boats are to handle. 1st shot I am coming in to pick up a mooring bouy (very small one) in front of my house in Mexico. I am alone and using the staysail to manuvere at a reduced speed. The Yankee is already down. As I round up into the wind, the mainsheet is released to bleed off more speed. The key is to try to arrive at the bouy with little or no speed on at all. Just before hitting the bouy I "hove to" with the staysail backwinded and the wheel hard over upwind. It is a great manuver to have in your toolbox. This boat hove's to very well as a cutter. The boat basically stops all fwd. motion and will sit there like a duck bobbing along. Can make it easy to pick up a bouy, or a man overboard, or something out of the water. Or to stop the boat to get your bearings.....
Last shots are the short row to the house and the view from the deck at home...soon, very soon we hope to be back down to enjoy more of this.
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