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**s/v Jedi** · 08-12-2011, 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

You're a weekend warrior because your 13 year old boat had sediment in it's fuel tanks, and I don't live aboard because nobody bought my lawn mower... I think that's logical to people who believe that several tonnes of lead will keep their boat afloat?

Difficult to let that go huh. But if I can, surely you can do too

I did not mean anything mean with the remark by the way... acting like if I did does not make it so

Now, this is the cruisers forum, so please pardon me when I make a little fun of weekend warriors now and then. I was one for 30 years myself, from age 8-38 to be exact.

What I mean is that I can find very little reason for weekend warriors to extend the hulls of their cats. You're not carrying that load of solar panels, the huge dinghy with large outboard, nor crossing oceans where you need extra waterline length etc. I might overlook some important reason so please let me know when that is the case.

For sediment: any -serious- -full- -time- cruiser who has had this trouble, make damn sure it never happens again. Fuel gets filtered before it enters the tanks or it gets polished regularly. Also, inspection lids are made or taps in sumps to check and drain any sediment, water etc. This is just the way it is, and it makes no sense at all for boat owners who also have a house and job and only sail at weekends and vacations.... because it is too much involved for that style of sailing.

For anybody seriously interested in solid fuel management, I have been involved with that more than I wished for, and designed a fuel system that meets almost every item on my wish list. The only thing I couldn't easily do is make a day tank with gravity feed. Here is the information: A new fuel system for Jedi (English) - s/v Jedi

ciao!
Nick.

44'cruisingcat · 08-12-2011, 14:10

If you make ridiculous statements it's no wonder you're keen to "let it go".......

downunder · 08-12-2011, 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

For anybody seriously interested in solid fuel management, I have been involved with that more than I wished for, and designed a fuel system that meets almost every item on my wish list. The only thing I couldn't easily do is make a day tank with gravity feed. Here is the information: A new fuel system for Jedi (English) - s/v Jedi

ciao!
Nick.

I had just been looking at your fuel system just yesterday.

Getting it right together with electrical systems are two of the big ones regarding vessel systems.

This is a stern design I like with strategically placed handholds.

Cheers

**s/v Jedi** · 08-12-2011, 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

If you make ridiculous statements it's no wonder you're keen to "let it go".......

Did you actually read my posts in this thread? I am adding to the discussion in a constructive way while trying to keep peace with you... but you are just continuing to insult me, stalking me in every thread I go. I didn't let go of that issue you keep mentioning because I think that you are right and I am wrong... I let go because you got angry and curse and insult me.

Nick.

**s/v Jedi** · 08-12-2011, 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by downunder

I had just been looking at your fuel system just yesterday.

Getting it right together with electrical systems are two of the big ones regarding vessel systems.

This is a stern design I like with strategically placed handholds.

Thank you, the system is still performing like the day I finished building it. I have not found one single thing I miss and everybody that used my design reports success

I did understand that the type of pump I used isn't available anymore, but replacement should be easy to find. Make sure maximum pressure on it's output is 7 psi or so. Filters are mostly designed for vacuum operation instead of pressurized, but a Racor can take 15 psi so stay well under that.

I like your railing design. I see that often and it works well while keeping it elegant. I do not like walls along the steps like on an earlier photo posted in the thread. It takes away all the space too.

ciao!
Nick.

muskoka · 08-12-2011, 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by beiland

The more you place heavy objects in the extreme ends of the vessel, the more you increase the tendancy for the vessel to excessive pitching...which in turn greatly reduces your capabilty to go forward under sail,...particularly when you are trying to claw off a lee shore in a short steep chop.

Naval architects are sufficiently capable of designing a boat which can carry this weight where they want it. You aren't seriously suggesting otherwise? Boats with aft engine compartments include the Outremer 42 and Catana 42 (great setup with access hatch from aft compartment). The Outremer is a seriously quick ride, and the Catana no slouch either.

Bad handling is nearly always a result of the owner not loading the cat correctly - I see far more cats bows heavy (because they've loaded those massive bow lockers up!!), than stern heavy. Load the boat right.

We service both engines. Fuel is filtered and Racors fitted. The tanks are cleaned. Sure there are two engines because there are two hulls, but regardless, there is redundancy built into the system. If you have two engines crap out, you've done something wrong.

downunder · 08-12-2011, 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by muskoka

Naval architects are sufficiently capable of designing a boat which can carry this weight where they want it. You aren't seriously suggesting otherwise? Bad handling is nearly always a result of the owner not loading the cat correctly - I see far more cats bows heavy (because they've loaded those massive bow lockers up!!), than stern heavy. Load the boat right.

.

Some designers acually design their vessel to carry all the heavy stuff centrally (motors, fuel, water,mast). Note even the fast monos are moving their masts further aft.

Everything is a compromise and it would be difficult to place motors centrally on under a 44ft cat.

cheers

muskoka · 08-12-2011, 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by downunder

Some designers acually design their vessel to carry all the heavy stuff centrally (motors, fuel, water,mast). Note even the fast monos are moving their masts further aft.

Everything is a compromise and it would be difficult to place motors centrally on under a 44ft cat.

cheers

Most aft engine compartments are relatively empty (well ours are). The Yanmar weighs about 130kg and the compartment is big enough to stand in - it's about 1.8m long but the aft bit is low due to the steps. In any event, if the engine was moved forward under the bunks, there would be 130kg of something else back there. You just can't leave that much space empty on a 40 foot boat.

Indeed, everything is a compromise. And within those compromises, there is a lot of personal preference. There actually isn't a 'right' configuration. Our setup was one of many deciding factors in selecting our boat.

Cheechako · 08-12-2011, 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I like the one with the very big/long lower step best. This allows you to pull a (unconscious) MOB back aboard. The lower the better and the more room on it the better. Same for more fun things like cleaning fish, scuba diving etc.

For handholds... how about integrated in an arch? We have separate hand holds on the stern (mainly for MOB). You need to try climbing aboard to find out how and where you need handholds. Same for the person helping you out. You can't just look at the stern and decide, practical tests are needed.

cheers,
Nick.

Good point on the fish cleaning. Nothing better than those aft steps. Just hose off the blood when you're done!

Lagoon4us · 08-12-2011, 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Difficult to let that go huh. But if I can, surely you can do too

I did not mean anything mean with the remark by the way... acting like if I did does not make it so

Now, this is the cruisers forum, so please pardon me when I make a little fun of weekend warriors now and then. I was one for 30 years myself, from age 8-38 to be exact.

What I mean is that I can find very little reason for weekend warriors to extend the hulls of their cats. You're not carrying that load of solar panels, the huge dinghy with large outboard, nor crossing oceans where you need extra waterline length etc. I might overlook some important reason so please let me know when that is the case.

For sediment: any -serious- -full- -time- cruiser who has had this trouble, make damn sure it never happens again. Fuel gets filtered before it enters the tanks or it gets polished regularly. Also, inspection lids are made or taps in sumps to check and drain any sediment, water etc. This is just the way it is, and it makes no sense at all for boat owners who also have a house and job and only sail at weekends and vacations.... because it is too much involved for that style of sailing.

For anybody seriously interested in solid fuel management, I have been involved with that more than I wished for, and designed a fuel system that meets almost every item on my wish list. The only thing I couldn't easily do is make a day tank with gravity feed. Here is the information: A new fuel system for Jedi (English) - s/v Jedi

ciao!
Nick.

Checked out your fuel system diagram, one possible improvement is to add a small pressure pump after the supply manifold, it can serve two purposes 1st a back up should the engines system fail and more importantly a method to bleed the system from the engine room without having to bump the engine over.
The pump has a switch in the engine room in a handy position.

**s/v Jedi** · 08-12-2011, 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

Checked out your fuel system diagram, one possible improvement is to add a small pressure pump after the supply manifold, it can serve two purposes 1st a back up should the engines system fail and more importantly a method to bleed the system from the engine room without having to bump the engine over.
The pump has a switch in the engine room in a handy position.

Ah but that pump is there, albeit in front of the manifold. This means you actually pressurize the manifold itself too. This way you can use the valves on the manifold to decide which parts of the system you want to pressurize or bleed. You can even backflush fuel pickup pipes in the tanks !

There are two pumps, one pressurizes the feed manifold, and the other the return manifold. Both draw from the transfer manifold followed by turbine filter. The pumps are self priming.

The way I bleed the system is just switching on the bleed/boost pump and listen to return fuel dumping in tank. When flow is steady, I start engine or genset which is self-bleeding and helped by the boostpump it is a 5 second affair and all is good.

I know another spiff way to bleed an engine: spray small bursts of WD40 into the air inlet while starting. The engine will start on WD40 and you control rpm with length and frequency of bursting it into the air inlet. When bleeding is done, regular diesel takes over and you can stop spraying the WD40.

It kinda proves that WD40 is just diesel fuel

ciao!
Nick.