Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 30-11-2010, 18:55   #31
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hawaii
Boat: Atlantic 42 Catamaran
Posts: 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
Sail a beach cat for a few years, in ALL conditions. There is no proper substitute.
FWIW, I don't think the original Hobies are very good analogs of modern cruising cats. I suspect something kind of heavy and floaty like a Hobie Wave might be closer. For hoots and hollers an F18 or a Tornado are hard to beat but also are probably a bit under volume and over canvased to be great analogs of the bigger boats. Of course, they are their own reward to sail and experience is always a good thing. But, IME, dinghy sailors pick up beach cat sailing very fast so I still feel that the skills transfer. Just for fun here's a video of a guy claiming to have no previous multi experience sailing a Seacart 30:

Tom
__________________

__________________
tsmwebb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2010, 18:02   #32
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 4,356
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmwebb View Post
FWIW, I don't think the original Hobies are very good analogs of modern cruising cats. I suspect something kind of heavy and floaty like a Hobie Wave might be closer. For hoots and hollers an F18 or a Tornado are hard to beat but also are probably a bit under volume and over canvased to be great analogs of the bigger boats. Of course, they are their own reward to sail and experience is always a good thing. But, IME, dinghy sailors pick up beach cat sailing very fast so I still feel that the skills transfer. Just for fun here's a video of a guy claiming to have no previous multi experience sailing a Seacart 30:

Tom
I sailed Prindles and Nacras, and yes, they are not analogs. They are good teachers.

The guy with the Seacart is not displaying good seamanship. Certainly any good cat sailor, or any good sailor, can fly a hull; generally, on a large cat, it only shows him to be a fool.

Pitchpoling is for amateurs? Watch some Extreme 40 or Olympic footage. If there is enough wind, it is a simple result of physics and even top sailors go occasionally and sometimes frequently. If you haven't pitchpoled a beach cat, you have not yet raced in enough wind. On reach it can always be avoided, but going deep, it is some times a VERY real threat.
__________________

__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing

Writing full-time since 2014.
Bookstore:http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/20...ook-store.html
thinwater is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2010, 18:23   #33
Registered User
 
YOGAO's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: St. Augustine, FL - an unwilling C.L.O.D.
Boat: Maine Cat 41
Posts: 519
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
I sailed Prindles and Nacras, and yes, they are not analogs. They are good teachers.

The guy with the Seacart is not displaying good seamanship. Certainly any good cat sailor, or any good sailor, can fly a hull; generally, on a large cat, it only shows him to be a fool.

Pitchpoling is for amateurs? Watch some Extreme 40 or Olympic footage. If there is enough wind, it is a simple result of physics and even top sailors go occasionally and sometimes frequently. If you haven't pitchpoled a beach cat, you have not yet raced in enough wind. On reach it can always be avoided, but going deep, it is some times a VERY real threat.
But seriously, how does that translate to sailing a cruising cat?

I have yet to experience the same sensations, relative conditions, etc in our MC41, that I experienced in our Hobie 16.

Fair Winds,
Mike
__________________
YOGAO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2010, 18:56   #34
Elvish meaning 'Far-Wanderer'
 
Palarran's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Me - Michigan / Boat - Tenerife
Boat: 56' Fountaine Pajot Marquises
Posts: 2,641
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinwater View Post

Pitchpoling is for amateurs? Watch some Extreme 40 or Olympic footage. If there is enough wind, it is a simple result of physics and even top sailors go occasionally and sometimes frequently. If you haven't pitchpoled a beach cat, you have not yet raced in enough wind. On reach it can always be avoided, but going deep, it is some times a VERY real threat.
I've seen the footage and as you just pointed out, they OCCASIONALLY do it. Your also comparing sponsored sailing team racing to "beach cat sailing". They are not the same. To me, burying both hulls and pitching directly forward, placing that much stress on your boat, is either stupid or amateurish. But, to each their own. If you enjoy that, do it. I found it easy enough to avoid. My point was that I absolutely don't want to do that with my cruising cat and it therefore makes me pucker.

I always liked Nacra's and my sailing buddy had a Prindle 18. Both nice cats. I always enjoyed watching them chase me on my Miracle
__________________
Not all who wander are lost

http://www.sailblogs.com/member/palarran/
Palarran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2010, 19:31   #35
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 4,356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palarran View Post
I've seen the footage and as you just pointed out, they OCCASIONALLY do it. Your also comparing sponsored sailing team racing to "beach cat sailing". They are not the same. To me, burying both hulls and pitching directly forward, placing that much stress on your boat, is either stupid or amateurish. But, to each their own. If you enjoy that, do it. I found it easy enough to avoid. My point was that I absolutely don't want to do that with my cruising cat and it therefore makes me pucker.

I always liked Nacra's and my sailing buddy had a Prindle 18. Both nice cats. I always enjoyed watching them chase me on my Miracle
And I hope to NEVER to see conditions anything like that in my cruising cat, but they are CERTAINLY POSSIBLE. Big waves. A 75 knot microburst. And so this is why we pucker and reef! When the bow wants to "swim" or the back feels light, we react early.

There are 3 ways a beach cat goes over: a capsize to the side (generally very avoidable), a pitch-pole over the front (requires VERY big wind or steep waves), and the combination, where a bow buries, the boat slows, and she goes to the side. The last is really only avoided by slowing down early (and sometimes by bearing off sharply, often discussed), and is sort of equivalent to broaching a mono-hull. It can also happen when the rudders overload and spinning out. This may be the most important case to learn about. To know when bearing off will be enough, and when it may not (micro burst).
__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing

Writing full-time since 2014.
Bookstore:http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/20...ook-store.html
thinwater is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2011, 06:35   #36
Registered User
 
svstrider's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: back on Gold Coast after sailing north to Thailand then east to Pacific via Irian Jaya, PNG & Solomons
Boat: Tennant 47ft Catamaran
Posts: 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon701 View Post
On the other hand, as noted elsewhere, you don’t get the warning or safety factor provided by heeling as the wind increases. We found that sailing “by the numbers” with a good dose of anticipation guided by experience worked for us. We operated referring ops that are 22 feet apart, you can turn the boat on a dime – just watch your drift as Tom suggested in his post.
My cat has significant windage, I find that if both dagger boards are dropped half way, it drastically reduces sideways drift while not affecting turning radius too much. I have forgotten this a couple of times and this has led to some VERY scary moments in confined marinas. A good reason to avoid them
(marinas & scary moments)
__________________

__________________
Paul & Kaspar de Wonda Dog
S/V "Pelican V"
"Trust not a living soul and step warily around the dead"
svstrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mono- or Multi-Crystalline? What say Ye? MarkJ Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 12 07-06-2011 08:24
Mono vs Multi: Let Me Have it ! Reba General Sailing Forum 32 07-09-2010 15:27
Mono vs Multi meyermm Monohull Sailboats 66 28-05-2009 05:54
Multi- or Mono-hull for a Circumnavigation? Stella Polaris Multihull Sailboats 69 24-05-2008 10:57



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:03.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.