Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 20-04-2015, 09:44   #76
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Winters cruising; summers Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Catana 471
Posts: 1,239
Re: Topping Lift - Mainsail Trim - Light winds...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbr View Post
The question was " Is sailing polars faster"? And the answer is YES.
Of course sailing the polars to get the best VMG downwind is faster - if the polars support it. I contend that realistic polars for the vast majority of cruising cats won't support gybing downwind vs DDW. Most cruising cat polars I've seen are fantasies - unless the owner generated them him/herself with boat specific loading and sails.

Dave
__________________

__________________
2Hulls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2015, 09:59   #77
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Winters cruising; summers Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Catana 471
Posts: 1,239
Re: Topping Lift - Mainsail Trim - Light winds...

Quote:
Originally Posted by monte View Post
Also a question regarding sailing on a beam or broad reach. I find leaving the traveller centred (it pretty much always is) and easing the mainsheet till the batten just touches the side stay gives ok sail for the top half of the sail and leech tell tails flow nicely, but the lower half is over sheeted a bit and the telltales fall away. There's quite a bit of twist this way and also the leech can move up and down quite a bit. Setting the traveller out wide and sheeting in the main would allow the bottom to work better, but the top worse when still touching the stay. How do others generally have the main and traveller set in those conditions, at around 20K TWS...
Hi Monte - beam or broard reach in 20K TWS? For us this would bring the AWA to beam or close reach and we'd have a reef in the main for helm balance. We have dual mainsheets and no traveler, but the boom would be "traveled" out a bit but the sail would be no where close to a stay. We'd play with the twist to get all the tails where we want them. If you meant beam or broad reach from the perspective of AWA, then we'd be further "traveled" out, but still nothing on a stay. Our dual mainsheets serve as a combination sheet, traveler, and vang and we can put the boom anywhere we want and in lighter winds employ the topping lift (the original topic of this thread ) to lock the boom in place where ever we want it to get the twist we want.

If you don't already have them, you might consider adding more tell tails about mid way back on the main in the spaces between the battens. This will help determining the optimum trim for the main. And don't forget to add more body off the wind by easing the outhaul. This is an often overlooked, but very powerful adjustment. JMHO

Dave
__________________

__________________
2Hulls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2015, 10:06   #78
pbr
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 186
Re: Topping Lift - Mainsail Trim - Light winds...

I forgot to mention with a device like the Camber Spar, Hoyt boom, or dangly pole or whisker pole, sailing angles can be even more possible and productive than with a conventional jib and main.
__________________
pbr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2015, 10:08   #79
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Topping Lift - Mainsail Trim - Light winds...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbr View Post
Lots of cruising cats come standard with a vang. Voyage, Manta, St. Francis, Yapluka, Endeavour, Tag,
Add Dean, Maxim and Leopard to that list of boats standard with vangs.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2015, 10:21   #80
pbr
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 186
Re: Topping Lift - Mainsail Trim - Light winds...

I also forgot to mention that the design of the sail is a factor too when it comes to twist. large roach or square heads will twist more with more corresponding vang load required.
__________________
pbr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2015, 17:40   #81
Eternal Member
 
monte's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 3,650
Images: 1
Re: Topping Lift - Mainsail Trim - Light winds...

Thanks for the tips. Yes Dave I was visiting a catana 471 yesterday and admiring the dual sheet setup (again)
It seems like a good simple system taht gets the job done well with 3 point bracing.
I was actually looking at the main today and thinking of adding some more telltales midway. Great minds !
I was refering to beam and broad reach as beam reach - apparent wind on the beam, broad reach - apparent wind 45 degrees aft of the beam
Im surprised your main doesnt touch your stays on a broad reach, Ill have to have another look at the Catana. Maybe the more swept back mast makes a difference, or maybe the chainplates are further forward.
__________________
monte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2015, 03:38   #82
Registered User
 
DavefromNZ's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: NZ
Boat: Lagoon 450
Posts: 389
Re: Topping Lift - Mainsail Trim - Light winds...

Vang on our Lagoon 450. What can I say; fitted it because was necessary with the Leisure Furl, however does give me more options with regard to sail shape and control.

Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByCruisers Sailing Forum1429608945.383329.jpg
Views:	93
Size:	94.5 KB
ID:	100719


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
DavefromNZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2015, 07:26   #83
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Winters cruising; summers Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Catana 471
Posts: 1,239
Re: Topping Lift - Mainsail Trim - Light winds...

Quote:
Originally Posted by monte View Post
Im surprised your main doesnt touch your stays on a broad reach, Ill have to have another look at the Catana. Maybe the more swept back mast makes a difference, or maybe the chainplates are further forward.
Monte - I think you're right - Very likely most of the answer is how far aft the shrouds are. If you're still near that 471 you could probably eye-ball any difference compared to your boat. My spreaders are actually swept back further than the shrouds at that level and due to the foil in the main being more pronounced closer to the mast, my sail hits the spreader before the shroud. Some 471 masts like mine were built to be rotating but were not rigged that way. This could be part of the reason the spreaders are swept back so much - with the mast rotated the spreader on the side with the sail would be well forward and out of the way.

Of course, there's a broad reach and then there's a BROAD reach and depending on how deep we're going my main would eventually get to the shroud if I let it. Here the wing-on-wing DDW strategy we use when racing actually is a little to windward from the perspective of the main - about 8* max before our sheeted out genoa on the opposite side starts to collapse. The sweet spot seems to be about 5* (or 175* apparent) for us to get max use of the main (and avoiding a gybe) while still having the genoa pulling.

Dave
__________________
2Hulls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2015, 08:01   #84
Eternal Member
 
monte's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 3,650
Images: 1
Re: Topping Lift - Mainsail Trim - Light winds...

Yep, we're usually flying the Parasailor DDW, but if wing in wing usually 170-175 dgrees. AP on windvane mode allways handles this with no accidental gybes yet (touch grp) Sheeting the lazy sheet out to the windward stay helps shape the jib and keep it stable with 3 load points (jib, lazy sheet and sheet)
__________________

__________________
monte is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
lift, mainsail, sail, wind

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Boom Lift and Topping Lift skully Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 1 19-05-2013 21:14
Rigging a Topping Lift off-the-grid Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 17 16-03-2013 23:04
Lines From Leech To Topping Lift Moonchaser2304 Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 12 12-04-2009 20:55
how to install new outhaul and topping lift? deano Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 3 24-12-2008 12:58
topping lift, boom vang and reef? scotty Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 20 08-09-2008 22:12



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:47.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.