To live a dream? No experience sailing

[Bulawayo]

Most definately you can do it. You'll get all the naysayers instructing you to buy a toy boat and learn to sail it first and then slowly progress up the ranks. You do not need to follow such instruction. There are plenty of people that do exactly (and more) as you describe. My very first trip was Cape Town to Rio, many moons ago. Yes, I experienced a few issues but these days its easier with the advent of chart plotters etc (but harder with insurance).
Go live your dream and ignore the 'experts' who tell you otherwise. Live life.

Originally Posted by Jarsy

I am from a land locked province in Canada, I had done a whitsundays sailing charter in Australia when I was in my twenties and fell in love but that was as far as it went. Since then I have settled down with a wife and two kids under five but just recently for whatever reason have a desire to buy a liveaboard boat and start sailing before my kids need to be in school. My plan would be to sail from Vancouver island to the Carribean and make a ton of stops along the way. Am I totally ridiculous to think this is possible to take a sailing course and wing it the rest of the way?

[Bulawayo]

I take issue with this. Yes, you can handle a bigger boat. Anyone that claims otherwise is mistaken.
Many people do precisely this. I was watching a You Tube series recently where a totally novice couple purchased a wide beam 43ft cat and did this - they took a couple of weeks lessons but not withstanding they did; as do other people.
Good luck and happy sailing.

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Maybe we can - just for exploratory purposes - grant Jarsy that he may be playing it close to the vest for the time being and be hoping to learn enuff - in solitude, so to speak - so that when he eventually broaches the subject to his wife, he won't be judged by her to be talking utter nonsense and be scheming to put her and the children in imminent jeopardy.

Proceeding on that assumption my answer - if Jarsy were to ask me directly - would be:

NO, you cannot handle a 46 foot cat by yourself. At this point, judging by the way you have put the case, you cannot handle even a 27 foot mono all by yourself. Messing about in Vancouver's English Bay, yes, you probably could. In the Straits of Georgia, possibly, depending on weather. Once you turn right off Race Rocks by Victoria, it'd get a bit problematic, but in good weather and with luck, possibly. Once you turn left by the Swiftsure light - forget it! You'd be way, way outta your depth, and twixt Swiftsure and the next easily accessible hidey-hole (Eureka, California 475 miles distant = six days and nights of continuous sailing) lies a coast so dangerous that no sensible person goes anywhere near it. Professional seafarers and competent yachtsmen keep 200 miles out to sea. And employ a level of seamanship it will take you years to acquire when coming into harbour.

You might note that "easily accessible" is a euphemism. The harbour entrance at Eureka is narrow and not to be toyed with in a hard westerly blow. So in a sense, Eureka - like Newport, Oregon 225 miles from the Swiftsure - is rather useless as a hidey-hole for a weather-stressed novice. Newport is trickier than Eureka, I'm told.

Read Ann Cate's second post again. Ann seems uncannily perceptive. As I know to my amusement, but that's another story :-)

If you really, really want to become a seafarer, then hang around here. Have patience. Be like a sponge. As I was fond of telling my students in my teaching days: "The problem with not knowing something is that you don't even know that you don't know it!"

I say that in friendship, by way of welcome, and in the hope that you will not be lost to the seafaring "cause". Despair not! We get this query at least a couple of times a month. A great many people seem to think that buying a boat and heading off to where the coconuts grow is like buying a second-hand Toyota and driving it home to Mom.

It ain't!

TrentePieds

[Bulawayo]

Hey Travis, glad to hear you guys are well and enjoying the life.

Originally Posted by travellerw

This is one thread where I think posting my blog would be appropriate.

We are a family of 5 from Edmonton that bought a Cat in Cuba and is currently sailing the Caribbean. We had ZERO experience and when I left Cuba, I had "The Sailing Bible" open on the salon table. IT CAN BE DONE..

However, I can not express how difficult this will be. It has been the single hardest thing I have done in my entire life. Sailing has been the easiest part. Politics, family dynamics, psychology, I underestimated by orders of magnitude.

I hope you find it useful. You can start reading from the beginning here.

http://www.svpartyoffive.com/2015/12/05/hello-world-2/

[MLOI]

I hope you can do it.... or rather I hope I can do it as we are in the process now.
To give you a sense of what it might take, here is our timeframe and plan.

When we started, I could sail a bit, her indoors had never sailed, and the kids were 3 and 7.
Step one, I gave up sailing.

2014, 7 yo started in optis, wife did dinghy course, we started talking about taking time off.

2015 march, we did a 10 day liveaboard trip together in a 34' mono in the whitsundays. Had some learning experiences, such as whilst I think its great fun to bury a rail beating into 25 knots, no one else did. When I changed destination so we could broad reach, my wife slapped me for the last 90 minutes of misery. But, she always gets involved in passage planning and weather now.

2015 July, we bought a 37' sloop for $100k. Started daysailing.

2015 December I'd replaced standing and running rigging, added another jib, and we did a 4 day cruise locally.

2016 Jan did our first J and M race. Came about 50th. Had fun.

2016 October we did a crap job of reefing in 40 knots, and my wife realised she needs to be able to handle the boat by herself incase I go overboard. Still just cruising locally, 6 hours is about our longest passage. Have got her up to 10 knots, happy.

2016 November, long list of boat work to go, including bimini with more solar and new holding tank. Anchor chain is surprisingly expensive.

2017 April we leave to head north up the East Coast of Aus. Bar ways have me nervous.

What you might see from the above is that it has taken a lot of time to get where we are while living life. Even more so, the next 6 months will be very busy as we try to get ourselves and the boat ready, and this is with a boat that I'd have no hesitation in taking for a 500 NM sail tomorrow. It is all the little things to turn it from a safe boat to a comfortable house for 4 to live on, rather than just racers to exist on, which are now taking time. Wife wants a freezer, I dont want to waste the space and power.

[mark rocco mont]

It's a wonderful dream...make it happen..most important is be safe do your research..and before you set off on your journey make sure you and your wife have listed all the pros and cons Good luck

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by MLOI

I hope you can do it.... or rather I hope I can do it as we are in the process now.
To give you a sense of what it might take, here is our timeframe and plan.

When we started, I could sail a bit, her indoors had never sailed, and the kids were 3 and 7.
Step one, I gave up sailing.

2014, 7 yo started in optis, wife did dinghy course, we started talking about taking time off.

2015 march, we did a 10 day liveaboard trip together in a 34' mono in the whitsundays. Had some learning experiences, such as whilst I think its great fun to bury a rail beating into 25 knots, no one else did. When I changed destination so we could broad reach, my wife slapped me for the last 90 minutes of misery. But, she always gets involved in passage planning and weather now.

2015 July, we bought a 37' sloop for $100k. Started daysailing.

2015 December I'd replaced standing and running rigging, added another jib, and we did a 4 day cruise locally.

2016 Jan did our first J and M race. Came about 50th. Had fun.

2016 October we did a crap job of reefing in 40 knots, and my wife realised she needs to be able to handle the boat by herself incase I go overboard. Still just cruising locally, 6 hours is about our longest passage. Have got her up to 10 knots, happy.

2016 November, long list of boat work to go, including bimini with more solar and new holding tank. Anchor chain is surprisingly expensive.

2017 April we leave to head north up the East Coast of Aus. Bar ways have me nervous.

What you might see from the above is that it has taken a lot of time to get where we are while living life. Even more so, the next 6 months will be very busy as we try to get ourselves and the boat ready, and this is with a boat that I'd have no hesitation in taking for a 500 NM sail tomorrow. It is all the little things to turn it from a safe boat to a comfortable house for 4 to live on, rather than just racers to exist on, which are now taking time. Wife wants a freezer, I dont want to waste the space and power.

Now here's a program that sounds (and has so far proven) practical, both in the sense of family happiness and gradual building of skills and knowledge.

To me, far, far better that the 'buy it and fly it" approach. The latter does sometimes have a happy outcome, but it is far from assured, and can lead to serious consequences, far more daunting than simple divorce.

Well done, MLOI, and good luck in your future adventures. I dunno where you are located, but if you should see Insatiable II floating about, make yourselves known and we'll have a chat.

Jim

[alverz2007]

Hi Jarsy, I have the same dream. We're in Edmonton, soon to retire, sell everything, move to Vancouver island, purchase a sailboat and over time (need experience) make our way south. So if that's your dream, do it, otherwise later you'll forever be wondering why u didn't when u had the chance.

[MLOI]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Well done, MLOI, and good luck in your future adventures. I dunno where you are located, but if you should see Insatiable II floating about, make yourselves known and we'll have a chat.

Jim

Thanks Jim
We are leaving from Port Phillip Bay late March and plan to make it to the Whitsundays in late June or July. Then back south, leaving the boat either in Brisbane or Sydney by early September and back to work / school. So a fair chance we may cross paths. We'll be the ones asking every one else where to anchor, how much scope to have out and if they mind rowdy kids. Boat is moli - an etap 37.

Leaving from PPB does concentrate the mind somewhat, firstly the rip, then Bass Strait, then across the paddock to Eden. Ive had some glorious nights in Bass Strait, and some exciting ones...Im contemplating grabbing a couple of mates and doing the trip to Sydney as a delivery, then have the family join there. Leave Bass Strait islands (which I love) for later when we all have a bit more experience and can enjoy it more.

Mike

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by MLOI

Thanks Jim
We are leaving from Port Phillip Bay late March and plan to make it to the Whitsundays in late June or July. Then back south, leaving the boat either in Brisbane or Sydney by early September and back to work / school. So a fair chance we may cross paths. We'll be the ones asking every one else where to anchor, how much scope to have out and if they mind rowdy kids. Boat is moli - an etap 37.

Leaving from PPB does concentrate the mind somewhat, firstly the rip, then Bass Strait, then across the paddock to Eden. Ive had some glorious nights in Bass Strait, and some exciting ones...Im contemplating grabbing a couple of mates and doing the trip to Sydney as a delivery, then have the family join there. Leave Bass Strait islands (which I love) for later when we all have a bit more experience and can enjoy it more.

Mike

Mike, that all sounds ok to me... especially that you have a lot of slack in your time scale. That is the crux of pleasant cruising... so, be a bit careful about your thoughts of the "delivery to Sydney with mates" plan. It's unusual to have mates who can be really flexible as to schedule, so you may be tempted to depart when you really shouldn't. Won't terrify the family, but can be costly with repairs when you go when ill advised!

We usually depart Tassie early April or thereabouts, and usually also end up staying in Eden for a week or more before heading on northward. It always seems so nice and warm in Eden after fall in southern Tasmania! Anyway, quite possible we'll cross wakes... and we're ok with rowdy kids!

Jim

[Bulawayo]

Keep your wife happy - find space for the freezer as it can make everyones lives easier. Its usually not to difficult to add solar, wind and or a gen set.
My wife wanted a washing machine - & she got it as I didnt want her going back a century doing hand washing.

Originally Posted by MLOI

I hope you can do it.... or rather I hope I can do it as we are in the process now.
To give you a sense of what it might take, here is our timeframe and plan.

When we started, I could sail a bit, her indoors had never sailed, and the kids were 3 and 7.
Step one, I gave up sailing.

2014, 7 yo started in optis, wife did dinghy course, we started talking about taking time off.

2015 march, we did a 10 day liveaboard trip together in a 34' mono in the whitsundays. Had some learning experiences, such as whilst I think its great fun to bury a rail beating into 25 knots, no one else did. When I changed destination so we could broad reach, my wife slapped me for the last 90 minutes of misery. But, she always gets involved in passage planning and weather now.

2015 July, we bought a 37' sloop for $100k. Started daysailing.

2015 December I'd replaced standing and running rigging, added another jib, and we did a 4 day cruise locally.

2016 Jan did our first J and M race. Came about 50th. Had fun.

2016 October we did a crap job of reefing in 40 knots, and my wife realised she needs to be able to handle the boat by herself incase I go overboard. Still just cruising locally, 6 hours is about our longest passage. Have got her up to 10 knots, happy.

2016 November, long list of boat work to go, including bimini with more solar and new holding tank. Anchor chain is surprisingly expensive.

2017 April we leave to head north up the East Coast of Aus. Bar ways have me nervous.

What you might see from the above is that it has taken a lot of time to get where we are while living life. Even more so, the next 6 months will be very busy as we try to get ourselves and the boat ready, and this is with a boat that I'd have no hesitation in taking for a 500 NM sail tomorrow. It is all the little things to turn it from a safe boat to a comfortable house for 4 to live on, rather than just racers to exist on, which are now taking time. Wife wants a freezer, I dont want to waste the space and power.

[MLOI]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

That is the crux of pleasant cruising... so, be a bit careful about your thoughts of the "delivery to Sydney with mates" plan.

Jim

These are mates that Ive done a few post race deliveries home from Hobart with, so windows and time are understood by all. If weather and schedules line up it'd work, if not, no one would get stressed. Not leaving, stopping at Gippsland lakes, stopping at JB etc. will all be quite viable outcomes

I have noticed that on OPBs my attitude to crossing the strait was "its only 30 knots, lets go". Now that I pay the bills its more like "its gusting to 25 in the bay, lets sit and wait a while".

Mike

[EvilRabbit]

We are in process of the same. Sold up, bought a 40' cat and learned to sail. Will be heading off within 3 months. We went from knowing pretty much nothing, to knowing only a tad more now:-)

Some notes from our own year long preparation journey:

1. Your time you can commit to learning is key. If you have to keep working until you ready to leave then it can take more time to get confident to head off to sea by yourselves.
2. While it's totally achievable, many people underestimate the theory exams for coastal and offshore sailing. Not sure what course you have to do in US/Canada. I really enjoyed them and will make you more confident.
3. Finding a boat can take one or several months. I'd factor in some decent time to find something that works for you guys. Then add a decent amount of time for repairs/upgrades and getting to know her.
4. I would just get the boat you anticipate cruising with. Little value and much more effort buying and selling smaller boats to learn on.
5. Young kids on a catamaran are easier than on a mono.
6. Make sure your wife, and you, get some miles at sea first. My wife didn't do any sailing before we started this and suffers from sea sickness which is getting a little better, but an issue here on the rougher South African seas.
7. Prepare to become a electrician, plumber, AC technician, carpenter and mechanic. It's really fun stuff for the uninitiated, but requires effort to get to grips with all the gear.

Don't delay; it's not a quick process getting confident with it all, but a super-fun experience and incredible life lessons. One thought is to rather just head off to Caribbean and get started there. Will probably get going much faster and learn from cruisers around you.

Originally Posted by Jarsy

I am from a land locked province in Canada, I had done a whitsundays sailing charter in Australia when I was in my twenties and fell in love but that was as far as it went. Since then I have settled down with a wife and two kids under five but just recently for whatever reason have a desire to buy a liveaboard boat and start sailing before my kids need to be in school. My plan would be to sail from Vancouver island to the Carribean and make a ton of stops along the way. Am I totally ridiculous to think this is possible to take a sailing course and wing it the rest of the way?

[Nikki S]

Not ridiculous! My husband, 2 kids and I are doing it right now, in east coast Australia.
Prior, We had only a couple of charter experiences and sailed dinghies as kids. Bought boat last year, and in May this year was my first ocean sail, first 5m swell, followed by first overnighter, first radio call, first storm, first time dragging an anchor in the middle of a squall in the middle of the night, first time being close enough to whales to touch them, first ripped clew on the head sale, first time giving the hull a scrub down while snorkelling under, etc. loving it. Loving it. Childhood dream fulfilled. Next year: first crossing. I must say I am most appreciative that my husband has sound mechanical knowledge and is super handy at fixing stuff, thinking on his feet, solving problems , navigating. We had plenty of advice from boat building ocean sailing mates when it came to buying the boat. Main tip: make sure all the big ticket items are in good working order. My kids are 9 and 12. We homeschool. They aren't natural sailors but it's growing on them.

[travellerw]

Originally Posted by Bulawayo

Hey Travis, glad to hear you guys are well and enjoying the life.

Thanks.... Yes its been one hell of an experience and we are still enjoying it. Right now we are Saint Lucia (Marigot Bay) slowly working our way up the chain. Going to be a great season.

Back to the OPs question.. Personally I would abandon the idea of buying a boat near Vancouver and making their way down. A few reasons for this.
1. Boats up there simply cost more as the market is smaller.
2. The pacific north is not a very forgiving place to learn. Everything is harder up there.
3. Boats bought in Canada have tax implications (GST for one, duty if you buy across the border and bring back).

Since you want to end up in the Caribbean, just buy a boat down there. There is a huge number of boats for sale down here so the prices and selection is fantastic. You will have a much easier time learning in the trade winds with super small tidal ranges. Just my advice after doing it myself!

[hamburking]

You are considering a very big leap, and taking your kids with you. While i admire your attitude (Live large or go home), there are easier ways. You never mention if money is an issue, or work. If you can, take your family on a Caribbean charter for a couple weeks to try it out. Or if money is a concern, charter a boat on Lake Ontario for a couple weeks next summer...Toronto has lots of fancy charter boats available, or Kingston has older, cheaper boats.

I'll agree with the other poster who said that if your goal is to cruise the Caribbean, buy a boat already in the Caribbean (or Florida), and make your life easy. Life is hard enough without punishing yourself with long, upwind ocean passages.

I suggest you get a copy of Jimmy Cornell's famous book, World sailing routes, and start looking at the wind direction and travel times, and suitable times of year for the passages you are considering.

Question: Are you more interested in the destinations, or the sailing to get there?

On a personal note, I've sailed with my kids since they were teeny tiny. I can tell you that they couldn't care less WHERE the boat is located, so long as the boat is nice, there's lots of treats, and good swimming. The exotic locales are for the adults. My kids were totally happy going to the same 3 islands in the 1000 islands over and over again. IMHO, you could sail Lake Ontario each summer and have just as much fun as the Caribbean without the salt water, distance, expense, and the ever increasing risk of the Zika virus which could mean no grandkids for you, ever.