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Old 02-06-2011, 07:36   #16
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Re: Thoughts on improving Wharram Tiki 38

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Originally Posted by bodhi02 View Post
If I was going to do that, there are many other designs I would build instead, such as the farrier F-41, Schionning Cosmos 1160, Woods Mirage, etc...
Seems to me that if you are going to build a wharram with balsa, foam etc that you probably should use the same materials in a boat that at least has good resale.
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Old 02-06-2011, 07:55   #17
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pirate Re: Thoughts on improving Wharram Tiki 38

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Originally Posted by cat man do View Post
And I think wharrams suck as well, I would almost be talked into a mono again before having one but each to his own
And courtesy/CF rules prevent any comments on folk with power cats talking sailing cats....
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Old 02-06-2011, 13:45   #18
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Re: Thoughts on improving Wharram Tiki 38

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And courtesy/CF rules prevent any comments on folk with power cats talking sailing cats....
Ouch!!!!.
Ok, so here goes. I readily admit I am a novice with a few cat charters under my belt and whatever free rides I can scrounge. What I can't understand is why a total novice (even more so than me) would undertake a difficult and very time consuming build while altering a proven design and engineering. There are a s**tload of unfinished projects and boats in need of TLC scattered all over the globe that you could grab for a song and not have to alter at all. Bodhi PM me if you want some of these but with your time frame they would all be irrelevant. BTW, Fusion will sell you a boat-in-a-box for about $125K. You might want to look at tris. There are some very interesting boats for under 100K. Bodhi, I still love you man and admire your spirit. Where's my wine. I'm gonna get Pissed. British version. BOB
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Old 02-06-2011, 15:41   #19
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Re: Thoughts on improving Wharram Tiki 38

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And courtesy/CF rules prevent any comments on folk with power cats talking sailing cats....

Even if said poster has built/raced/cruised more sailing cats than the vast majority of internet experts have?

So how do you feel about monohull sailors constantly giving us the benefit of their expertise with catamarans?

I built some fairly major modifications into my boat - moved some bulkheads slightly, raised the sheer for increased headroom throughout, increased the beam by 300mm, and raised the height of the mast by 500mm.

But I wouldn't have made these changes without the designer's approval. In fact there were changes required to the layups of the major structural beams which Bob Oram did free of charge.
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Old 02-06-2011, 16:04   #20
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pirate Re: Thoughts on improving Wharram Tiki 38

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Even if said poster has built/raced/cruised more sailing cats than the vast majority of internet experts have?

So how do you feel about monohull sailors constantly giving us the benefit of their expertise with catamarans?

I built some fairly major modifications into my boat - moved some bulkheads slightly, raised the sheer for increased headroom throughout, increased the beam by 300mm, and raised the height of the mast by 500mm.

But I wouldn't have made these changes without the designer's approval. In fact there were changes required to the layups of the major structural beams which Bob Oram did free of charge.
About the same as a cat sailor about mono's... I sail anything I can get my mitts on... (over 20ft) I'm a boat slut.. so I could not care less..
Basically the OP asked a question that went unanswered... just presented a list of build options the OP had no interest in then when rejected went into a huff about Wharrams...
If he has all that talent its a shame he could not have applied it more constructivly...
As for Designers Approval... I think you'll find a lot of Wharram rip-offs out there... cut of a stern here... make the keel deeper there... build a box on the inside of a Wharrams hulls to make a Tri style berth...
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Old 02-06-2011, 16:19   #21
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Tehini 51

Yep. This puppie's still on CL.
51' Wharram Tehini Catamaran (incomplete)
Wharram Tehini 51 in PA. Hulls built, Owner financing. 20 grand What's not to love? As close as your likely to get to your neck of the woods. No modification or hull stretching. The buider died and it's an estate sale. BOB
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Old 03-06-2011, 01:53   #22
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Re: Thoughts on improving Wharram Tiki 38

OK, Deep breaths everyone...
To answer the questions raised by the various responses so far;
I am not interested in bashing any brand of boat. I am also not interested in resale value, or racing. I am interested in a good solid boat that I can sail anywhere in the tropics my heart desires, and that won't be just another piece of generic tupperware.
As far as taking over someone else's failed project or fixing up an old boat, as a crafstman, I take pride in what I create, and part of that is knowing from the ground up exactly what I have and the quality of the build. Did the original builder get the jig set up exactly square and level, or is part of the reason they abandoned their project is that things didn't quite fit together as the build progressed? Did they take the appropriate time and care with the layups to get a good bond and low residual resin? etc, etc...
I like the Wharram Tiki 38. I like the look, the deck space, and the attitude towards a simplified life. Which is what I am looking for when I retire from 25 years in the US Navy, and many years spent in places I don't particularly want to be doing things I don't particularly enjoy, such as right now, typing this response in the middle of Afghanistan where I am spending 12 months.
So, I don't see the harm in considering a few minor changes in the construction of a relatively simple boat like the Tiki. No changes are significantly structural. While the beam to hull joints are designed for some fexibility, the hulls themselves do not flex any more than any other cat hulls, and probably much less than factory FRP or foam core hulls. So placing properly constructed centerboard cases should not be any more inherently leaky than on any other boat.
Please don't take this response as me only looking for validation of a decision I have already made. I honestly appreciate all sincere responses, and as I still have about 6-8 months before I will purchase plans and start building, I am certainly not dead set on any 1 boat.
Honestly, my two top contenders are two boats about as far apart on the spectrum as you can get. The Wharram Tiki 38, and the Farrier F-39! Both transportable overland to get to the water for launching, but completely different builds, boats, sailing and cruising experience.
Thanks again to all.
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Old 03-06-2011, 02:09   #23
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Re: Thoughts on improving Wharram Tiki 38

That all sounds reasonable to be....I say go for it.
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Old 03-06-2011, 02:22   #24
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Re: Thoughts on improving Wharram Tiki 38

I would at least look at the 51' estate sale vessel, it looks like a humdinger. And a lot of the time has already been invested. If she fills the bill then great, if not you haven't really lost anything. I like the looks of the Tiki 38 and almost built one for myself, I don't see a problem with the slight modifications you are considering.
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Old 03-06-2011, 16:38   #25
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Re: Thoughts on improving Wharram Tiki 38

Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhi02 View Post
OK, Deep breaths everyone...
To answer the questions raised by the various responses so far;
I am not interested in bashing any brand of boat. I am also not interested in resale value, or racing. I am interested in a good solid boat that I can sail anywhere in the tropics my heart desires, and that won't be just another piece of generic tupperware.
As far as taking over someone else's failed project or fixing up an old boat, as a crafstman, I take pride in what I create, and part of that is knowing from the ground up exactly what I have and the quality of the build. Did the original builder get the jig set up exactly square and level, or is part of the reason they abandoned their project is that things didn't quite fit together as the build progressed? Did they take the appropriate time and care with the layups to get a good bond and low residual resin? etc, etc...
I like the Wharram Tiki 38. I like the look, the deck space, and the attitude towards a simplified life. Which is what I am looking for when I retire from 25 years in the US Navy, and many years spent in places I don't particularly want to be doing things I don't particularly enjoy, such as right now, typing this response in the middle of Afghanistan where I am spending 12 months.
So, I don't see the harm in considering a few minor changes in the construction of a relatively simple boat like the Tiki. No changes are significantly structural. While the beam to hull joints are designed for some fexibility, the hulls themselves do not flex any more than any other cat hulls, and probably much less than factory FRP or foam core hulls. So placing properly constructed centerboard cases should not be any more inherently leaky than on any other boat.
Please don't take this response as me only looking for validation of a decision I have already made. I honestly appreciate all sincere responses, and as I still have about 6-8 months before I will purchase plans and start building, I am certainly not dead set on any 1 boat.
Honestly, my two top contenders are two boats about as far apart on the spectrum as you can get. The Wharram Tiki 38, and the Farrier F-39! Both transportable overland to get to the water for launching, but completely different builds, boats, sailing and cruising experience.
Thanks again to all.
You were talking about increasing sail area by 15%. IMO that is fairly significant. Rig loads will increase, the loads on the beams will take a fair jump.
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Old 03-06-2011, 17:22   #26
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pirate Re: Thoughts on Improving Wharram Tiki 38

I built a Wharram 23, changed many things around, added some beam and went with a taller sloop mast and sails that I already had. The boat still didn't comeabout well. Tried a lot of remedies. They just don't.

Your idea of the centerboards is bound to really help. Prob seems to be that James W. is not at all interested in designing for better performance. Per his literature that I remember, he envisions groups of us on our dead simple cats surviving the Apocalypse. Like you, I like the notion and the boats are truly dead simple and yet quite capable. I think JW knows something about sailing and boatbuilding but his real strength was in capturing our imaginations.

Cat Man Do: "Seems to me that if you are going to build a wharram with balsa, foam etc that you probably should use the same materials in a boat that at least has good resale." This should be painted on the door to your shop. It's easy to say resale doesn't matter ...now.

Also I looked at the F39. If you have that and a Tiki 38 in mind, I'd think you are a long way from a decision. N nuttin wrong with that.
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Old 03-06-2011, 17:49   #27
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Re: Thoughts on Improving Wharram Tiki 38

I always vote for the Wharrams cause they come with naked ladies ... I've seen'm in the Design Book!
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Old 03-06-2011, 19:16   #28
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pirate Re: Thoughts on Improving Wharram Tiki 38

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I always vote for the Wharrams cause they come with naked ladies ... I've seen'm in the Design Book!
Ya gotta love the hull on Hanneke Boon. And the topsides could not be improved. I still remember her name these 30 years later.
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Old 03-06-2011, 21:27   #29
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Re: Thoughts on Improving Wharram Tiki 38

The Tikis caught my imagination too and I thought of some modifications similar to yours. My boat would have lee boards or daggers, but used on the windward hull like your idea. That way I wouldn't have a hull penetration below the waterline and repairs would be much easier if something did go wrong and you broke one. You could even have multiple boards/slots to help balance the helm depending on the rig you used. These could also make it easier to pivot the boat in a tack. Maybe

Kevin
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Old 03-06-2011, 23:15   #30
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Re: Thoughts on Improving Wharram Tiki 38

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Ya gotta love the hull on Hanneke Boon. And the topsides could not be improved. I still remember her name these 30 years later.
Oh, I wonder why?
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