Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 24-09-2014, 15:35   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 127
Thoughts on adding dagger/s board to Lagoon 57

Lets hear peoples thoughts on adding at least one dagger board (maybe two) to a lagoon 57 (the first version) and removing the keels. I don't own a 57 but it is in my sights as a boat with lots of good atributes.

First off lets assume it has nice perfomance sails (I used to work for North) and the boat has been put on a major diet. Ie. no genny, lifePo batteries, removed equipment from two bathrooms (or deleted all together), no A/C.

The hull beam to lenght ratio is not bad at 10.5 the displacement is not too heavy at 13 tons.

My plan would be turn the port hull into an owners cabin with only one forward head and shower, no crew quarters to lose weight and then add one dagger board.



If you compare a Lagoon 57 to a similar Catana the weight is good, the price is good. The sail area is a bit short, but that can be fixed. I see it as missing a dagger board.
__________________

canadian cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2014, 15:48   #2
Marine Service Provider
 
Factor's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Corsair Dash MKII
Posts: 4,213
Re: Thoughts on adding dagger/s board to Lagoon 57

Quote:
Originally Posted by canadian cat View Post
If you compare a Lagoon 57 to a similar Catana the weight is good, the price is good. The sail area is a bit short, but that can be fixed. I see it as missing a dagger board.
You sure the 57 is 13 Tonne? These are manufacturers claimed lightship displacements. (outremer will contract to that weight, so that one is definitely believable)

Outremer 5x - 13 tonne
Catana 59 - 19 tonne
Lagoon 560 - 30 tonne
FP Sanya 57 - 21 tonne

So the L57 is in Outremer 5X territory. And thus should outperform most boats - with or without daggerboards
__________________

Factor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2014, 17:35   #3
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,316
Re: Thoughts on adding dagger/s board to Lagoon 57

Everything is doable. At a COST.

b.
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2014, 20:11   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 127
Re: Thoughts on adding dagger/s board to Lagoon 57

Factor what you say is true. Who knows what the 57 weights in at. Real info is hard to find. The older 57 was built by the specialist JTA with carbon and whatever that means to how much it weights and how well it was built. Even if it is in the range of the other boats. To lose weight, add nice large sails, and a dagger board. Is the 57 worthy of any performance mods? Also, is this kind of modification going kill resale?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Factor View Post
You sure the 57 is 13 Tonne? These are manufacturers claimed lightship displacements. (outremer will contract to that weight, so that one is definitely believable)

Outremer 5x - 13 tonne
Catana 59 - 19 tonne
Lagoon 560 - 30 tonne
FP Sanya 57 - 21 tonne

So the L57 is in Outremer 5X territory. And thus should outperform most boats - with or without daggerboards
canadian cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2014, 20:19   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Sydney, NSW
Posts: 807
Re: Thoughts on adding dagger/s board to Lagoon 57

There is a thing called hydrodynamics that is involved in hull design. Very important stuff. Many factors go into a hull design to achieve a desired outcome, like sailing performance for example, and just chopping off some keels and replacing with a daggerboard may well be a fruitless exercise, if not counter-productive. A hull length to beam ratio of 10.5 isn't that great either, it's obviously meant to favour load carrying vs performance. Now if you had a hull length to beam of 12:1 or 12.5:1, then you could chase some increased performance by reducing the wetted surface area with such a strategy. Even so, this would be a high risk experiment it seems to me.

This is a serious question for a multihull naval architect or a good multihull designer who has the math & engineering smarts, rather than gathering opinions from a forum audience, surely?

Would you go ahead with this if 10 CF responses said "Great idea, go for it!"
BigBeakie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25-09-2014, 01:11   #6
Registered User

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Greece
Boat: Lagoon 380
Posts: 146
Re: Thoughts on adding dagger/s board to Lagoon 57

I believe it will be a waste of money. New sails, clean bottom, getting rid of useless stuff will make the boat much faster - and of course: learning to sail the boat.. The Australian OMR, says that daggerboards will make your boat 0.5% faster for the same weight, but your boat will be heavier with daggerboards, that are strong enough.
django37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-09-2014, 03:36   #7
Registered User
 
Dulcesuenos's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Florida Keys, Bahamas Bound
Boat: 38' French Cat
Posts: 2,878
Images: 4
Re: Thoughts on adding dagger/s board to Lagoon 57

I don't think anything will make them faster short of surfing down a huge wave or a jet engine loll. We played with a 50 watching these guys do everything they could for hours to eek more speed in 17knots of wind and couldn't break 7 knots. Its a cruiser , not a perf cat

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
Dulcesuenos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-09-2014, 04:49   #8
Marine Service Provider

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Marmaris
Boat: FP Orana 2010, Lipari 2011, Hélia 2013, Catana C 47 2013
Posts: 1,081
Re: Thoughts on adding dagger/s board to Lagoon 57

Doing it properly will cost you a lot of money. In turn, it can have marginal effect on speed. The main benefit will be in giving less leeway when sailing upwind.
Some naval architects are suggesting that the fixed keels can be very dangereous when a big and breaking wave hits from the side of the boat, leading to trip the boat over. (With dagger boat retracted, in simlar conditions the cat would skid away..)
If you are planning to sail in Southern Ocean or in the high lattitudes, you may want to give another thought, otherwise forget it ..

Cheers

Yeloya
yeloya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-09-2014, 08:58   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 127
Re: Thoughts on adding dagger/s board to Lagoon 57

Hey Beakie

Take a chill pill I post here for conversation about catamarans. My wife doesn't want to talk about cats as much as I do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBeakie View Post

Would you go ahead with this if 10 CF responses said "Great idea, go for it!"
canadian cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-09-2014, 09:07   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 127
Re: Thoughts on adding dagger/s board to Lagoon 57

Is everyone talking about the old Lagoons or grouping all old and new together? This is the boat that I am talking about.


From my understanding the newer boats are much heavier. What I am trying to find out is do they sail ok now and good new sail, a diet, and a daggerboard will make them sail upwind in light to med. conditions well?

Is a daggerboard boat going to be faster all the time no. The board will only help in light to med up wind conditions (more lift) and downwind with less drag and as stated in storm conditions for sliding down waves.
canadian cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-09-2014, 09:18   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Abaco, Bahamas/ Western NC
Boat: Nothing large at the moment
Posts: 854
Re: Thoughts on adding dagger/s board to Lagoon 57

This is a much bigger deal than you realize. First off a good multi hull naval architect would have to both design the placement AND the structural strengthening of the hull. It would most likely require tearing up the interior to access the hull and the structural placement of the trunks. Most likely cheaper to buy a different boat!
Tingum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-09-2014, 09:26   #12
Registered User
 
1ercru's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Aboard
Boat: Leopard 47 owner's version
Posts: 73
Talking Re: Thoughts on adding dagger/s board to Lagoon 57

Canadian cat, I see you are back at it again. Just BUY one and get it over with, you are clearly in love! and with those looks who among us can blame you!

Since there are few actual sailing experiences forth coming on these yachts here at CF. Perhaps a quick email to some of the charter captains still operating these boats for some real experience and recommendations. If that feed back keeps the fire going, consider a week charter on one (how bad could that be!) certainly that will give you personal insight.
1ercru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-09-2014, 09:48   #13
Registered User
 
malbert73's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Boat: Tartan 40
Posts: 1,116
Re: Thoughts on adding dagger/s board to Lagoon 57

Just was lucky enough to get out on a sea trial of an Atlantic 57 yesterday in 10-15 knot winds. We were consistently hitting 10-12+ knots on all points of sail without even working hard at trimming sails (purpose of trial was tweaking reef points and looking at some wrinkles in jib.
Rode like it was on rails. Chris White was along, and he definitely deserves compliments.

Now that's a performance cat. Scrap the Lagoon idea and get one of those.
malbert73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-09-2014, 17:53   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Sydney, NSW
Posts: 807
Re: Thoughts on adding dagger/s board to Lagoon 57

Canadian Cat,

Sorry, I didn't mean to ruffle feathers or be a smart alec; just that what you are proposing is a nice thought exercise, but to apply some caution and consult with a professional before laying down cash or plugging in the saw

You never know, someone out there may have actually done something like this (ie some experience) or a designer might pipe up and offer an educated opinion on the technical feasibility, in which case that would really help you.

Certainly the Lagoon you displayed in the photo has more potential for reasonable performance than the current condmarans, but still....
BigBeakie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26-09-2014, 09:17   #15
Registered User
 
1ercru's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Aboard
Boat: Leopard 47 owner's version
Posts: 73
Re: Thoughts on adding dagger/s board to Lagoon 57

Check out "ZERO" modern Lagoon 55 project boat, some nice design work, (no boards). Looks Italian now.

Federico Delrosso Architects#
__________________

1ercru is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
lagoon

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dagger Boards --- I don't quite get it Limpet Multihull Sailboats 55 04-03-2013 18:12
Optimum Dagger Board Use solarbri Multihull Sailboats 15 03-03-2013 13:56
To Dagger or Not to Dagger ... Denvermike66 Multihull Sailboats 28 30-01-2012 23:29
Curved Dagger Board ? Loquat Multihull Sailboats 1 11-03-2011 13:41
Dagger board dilemma West Coast Cat Multihull Sailboats 8 07-03-2008 13:51



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:49.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.