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Old 26-09-2014, 11:40   #16
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Re: Thoughts on adding dagger/s board to Lagoon 57

Canadian Cat, I am with those who are suggesting that your proposal would fail on a cost/benefit analysis. As has been pointed out, you would need a good naval architect to plan the project and, even then, without access to the original plans and lay-up schedules, etc., he would likely need to see the boat at various stages of the project. Cha-ching!

In addtion, you speak of removing crew quarters in order to reduce weight - but will it? Foam matresses are pretty light and the frp moldings for many cabins/berths are actually structural. It is almost assuredly not just a matter of cutting them out!

So too the removal of keels. Are they 'sacrifical' (attached over the hull itself), or are they a part of the hull molding? Do they contain internal tankage? If so, how will relocating the tanks up, as well as fore and aft, affect the stability of the boat?

If you are insisting on boards, then buy a Catana or something similar. Even if it is more expensive at the outset, you will probably save money in the long run in comparison to the modifications. You will certainly gain money on resale.

Brad
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Old 26-09-2014, 12:18   #17
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Re: Thoughts on adding dagger/s board to Lagoon 57

1ercru I know what you say is the correct thing to do. I keep fighting between speed and comfort. I spent the summer on my J40 which is comfy, but I would say only sails OK thinking I need more speed.

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Canadian cat, I see you are back at it again. Just BUY one and get it over with, you are clearly in love! and with those looks who among us can blame you!

Since there are few actual sailing experiences forth coming on these yachts here at CF. Perhaps a quick email to some of the charter captains still operating these boats for some real experience and recommendations. If that feed back keeps the fire going, consider a week charter on one (how bad could that be!) certainly that will give you personal insight.
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Old 26-09-2014, 12:43   #18
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Re: Thoughts on adding dagger/s board to Lagoon 57

I hear what everyone is saying me and I am not going to jump into a project like this lightly or with out a NA. I would make every modification (sails, weight, etc.) before the boards.
I just see catamarans as modular objects. As long as you don't touch the beam structures and how they attach into the hulls other things can be changed. Look how many configurations of the same model can have. If you look at a Schionning or the like there is flexibility within the same boat. I am not saying that a Lagoon is the same a Schionning, but similar. I think the biggest question is how much do these 57's really weight and how much can I get off of them.

I really like the look of them, they are supposedly well built and cheaper than a Catana by quite a bit. If I can get similar performance then it is a win win.
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Old 26-09-2014, 13:35   #19
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Re: Thoughts on adding dagger/s board to Lagoon 57

Canadian Cat, if you are not so concerned about LOA, you could likely get a Catana 471 from the late 90's for around the same price as the initial purchase of a Lagoon 57, prior to your proposed modifications and upgrades. Since the interior accomodation does not seem to be a huge consideration for you (you are talking about removing crew quarters and head compartments) why not consider a 471? They were extremely well built, lighter than most of Catana's later boats of a comparable LOA, have boards and much better performance than most cats of that size. Yes, you will lose performance based upon LWL alone over a 57, but you will save money up front and on dockage/maintenance once it is in the water. I also strongly suspect that you will do much better on resale.

Lets face it, even though your highly modified Lagoon 57 will end up costing substantially more than the Catana (due to the modificiations), most members of the public will see your boat as a 'butchered' Lagoon 57 and worth even less when it comes time to sell.

Brad
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Old 26-09-2014, 14:14   #20
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Re: Thoughts on adding dagger/s board to Lagoon 57

Souther Star I agree the Catana 471 is a great boat. The thing with the 471 is the asking price now. My brother's friend had one for 10 years full time cruising and sold it last year for what he paid for it. That just makes me think they are over priced and I worry the resale value will drop right after I pay the high price. Maybe they are just that good and will always hold their value.
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Old 26-09-2014, 14:21   #21
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Re: Thoughts on adding dagger/s board to Lagoon 57

Very difficult to justify the expense, and I think it will lower the eventaul resale value.
If a client asked us to price such a mod, Im guessing $50-70K.
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Old 26-09-2014, 15:54   #22
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Re: Thoughts on adding dagger/s board to Lagoon 57

When did the 471 start to get heavy? I had a look at a 2003 471Ocean. My understanding is the Ocean is heavy and not the one you want.

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Canadian Cat, if you are not so concerned about LOA, you could likely get a Catana 471 from the late 90's They were extremely well built, lighter than most of Catana's later boats
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Old 26-09-2014, 17:52   #23
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Re: Thoughts on adding dagger/s board to Lagoon 57

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1ercru I know what you say is the correct thing to do. I keep fighting between speed and comfort. I spent the summer on my J40 which is comfy, but I would say only sails OK thinking I need more speed.
If you are sailing a J40, how much more speed (especially VMG to windward) do you think you will get from a Lagoon? I think you will be disappointed. Now if you get a gunboat, catana, chris white, etc? Then you'll notice a big difference.
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Old 26-09-2014, 18:58   #24
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Re: Thoughts on adding dagger/s board to Lagoon 57

Why not get an Outremer 55. Then you'll have all the speed you need.
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Old 26-09-2014, 19:27   #25
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Re: Thoughts on adding dagger/s board to Lagoon 57

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If you are sailing a J40, how much more speed (especially VMG to windward) do you think you will get from a Lagoon? I think you will be disappointed. Now if you get a gunboat, catana, chris white, etc? Then you'll notice a big difference.

There's a big difference in performance between the modern days Lagoon and the 57 he's looking to modify.


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Old 26-09-2014, 19:40   #26
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Re: Thoughts on adding dagger/s board to Lagoon 57

I think the Lagoon 57 is a great design, sharp, sleek and World proven... you don't need to mess with daggerboards etc, don't FIU! buy it and enjoy the early Lagoon design success...
Catana 471s maintain their resale value because they are proven great boats...as are others

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Old 28-09-2014, 02:15   #27
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Re: Thoughts on adding dagger/s board to Lagoon 57

If you're more interested in performance than brand new interior, I'd suggest looking at some older Catana and Outremer boats. I personally like the Catana 48 :-)
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Old 28-09-2014, 10:00   #28
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Re: Thoughts on adding dagger/s board to Lagoon 57

CanadianCat, although a bit smaller, I think the boat you are looking for is a, ahem, Switch 51. There is also 1 55' out there.
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Old 29-09-2014, 01:00   #29
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Re: Thoughts on adding dagger/s board to Lagoon 57

CanadianCat, There is a Lagoon 42 listed for sale on www.Largecatamaransforsale.com in Apollo Beach, Florida that has been modified with dagger boards. Seems it may still be an incomplete project requiring interior finishing though it appears to be in the water. The owner may shed some light on your board desires??
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Old 29-09-2014, 03:00   #30
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Re: Thoughts on adding dagger/s board to Lagoon 57

I love Cats with boards. The first catamaran that my Dad designed for my brother and me the home built PDQ 27 had them and is still going strong 30 years later. We have just purchased an Outremer 45 which has boards. I also am the owner of the only Pdq 36 with boards. It was built from new that way, so all the changes that where needed could be done during construction .We also put the boat on a diet.and shed 2000 lbs about 20% of the normal launch weight after 11 years she still only ways 8000 lbs .along with the increased sail area and reduced windage she goes like a rocket .
That said if i had just done the boards with out the rest of it the results would not have been so good . I paid a lot of money for the board option and my brother was president of PDQ I cannot imagine what it would cost to retro fit the 57.It would be in the several hundreds.
That lagoon is beautifull and I know why you want to play with it ,but for the money, time and effort you could get a purpose built boat like the Outremer 55 . As one of the previous posters said keep the bottom clean and put on great sails .That would be the bast bang for your buck
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