Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-12-2012, 21:00   #16
Registered User
 
Multi-man in OZ's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Belmont North NSW
Boat: Pacific 46 - Previous
Posts: 8
Re: This Week's Cat Hunting Expedition

Hi all on this thread.

My name is Mike van Dijk the former owner of a company called Pacific Multihulls and the Austrol Technology Group, sadly PM was wound up (as where my other 4 companies) after they were heavily affected by the GFC.

I often troll the web for news of my former business exploits, two being news of Abatao and the Pacific 40/Solitary Island 12 kit catamaran (3 kits being sold one to Doug in SA, one to David QLD near Carins and another to Rick in California USA). I keep in regular contact with all the owners and hope to visit SA next year to sail in the first P40 catamaran which was completed by Doug earlier this year.

I found your post so I thought I would fill you in.

The boat known as Abatao (the name of the village where she was built) was built on Tarawa in the Republic of Kiribati. The Repubilc of Kiribati is a country made up of 32 atols and one island. The atols are very low lying about 2 mtrs above sea level which are heavy affected by storm surges which erode the shoreline. There is plenty to tell about Kiribati and the issues affecting this poor nation, but overall I met an Australian who is married to an I-Kiribati who was building boats on Abatao in Tarawa, we struck up a friendship/business relationship and decided that it would be a great thing to help this poor nation by creating employment for the locals building catamarans. Hence Pacific Multihulls was born.

Abatao named by George the current owner (which I was to call Pacific Juice or PJ - But I also love the name Abatao as I have many splendid memories of time spent at Abatao) was mostly build in Kiribati, with some of the electricals, soft furnishings, rig and sails added in Brisbane. Abatao is a modifed 43ft Gary Lidgard design. Some of the modifications being raised saloon/headroom in the hulls, extended aft section in the rear berth to allow the rear berth to be off the bridge deck therefore easier to get onto. It also greatly increased the cockpit seating/entertaining area.

Abatao is a beautiful boat, it has fantastic lines and sails well. Around 5 years earlier to starting the build of the P46 I spotted the the beautiful lines of Shadowfax (Abatao'ss sistership) at Nelsons Bay mariner. I loved the design and maybe 2 years latter managed to get hold of the owner Colin. I was lucky that he had her at Oyster Cove Marina for her winter clean up and bottom scrub. So he met and I helped him sail her from Nelsons Bay to Sydney in over 38 knots and 2.5 to 3 mtrs seas. It was a breeze, she sailed and pointed well and ticked most of the boxes. But as the boat I was building was going to be our initial company demo boat, I was totally involved in the layout and requirements of what I wanted to be an ideal fast cruiser with plenty of comfort. I had sailed on many a cat and crawled over many under construction to get an idea of what made for a great all round performance crusiing cat with great areas for entertaining. The initial design was even more of a racer with very low headroom, very short cockpit overhang, twin wheels etc. The Pacific 46 boat was to compete for sales with the likes of the Lightwave 45, but as more performance cruiser with daggers and some carbon etc where required.

I have many photos of her under construction, I went to Kiribati to oversea the launching and helped get her ready to deliver her from Brisbane to Newcastle (where I reside) then got a crew together to take her to Sydney where a new crew took over to sail her to Melbourne with the owner George.

Sadly nearing the later stages of Abatao's build the GFC hit causing many an issue for my companies. I had also sunk big $ into the start up of the Pacific 40 kit catamaran (we had 8 deposits for the P40 Kit) by the time the GFC hit we had paid back 5 deposits as people started backing out and were left with 3 orders. Sadly the initial kits were priced at cost to enter the market. If we hadn't lost a container of core off a ship in a cyclone and had not been delayed by the replacement core being held up due to the Bejing Olympics we may have just survived and delivered more kits before they the customers pulled out. Shame as the P40 is also an excellent kit boat, it ticked all the right boxes, no rot cores (Polycore), large routed panels, resin infused foam hulls, beamy, great power to weight ratio. Mark Stephens who I employed at the time in the kit factory did a great job designing her for me.

So close at the time, but now so far out of my reach, brings a tear to my eye and makes my wooden leg ache!

I would still love to resurrect the P46 and P40 projects if I ever have the chance to do so. They are great cats, sadly in Australia we are being swamped by imported cats designed for charter, which is such a shame.

Cheers

Mike
__________________

__________________
Multi-man in OZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 21:09   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 830
Images: 27
Re: This Week's Cat Hunting Expedition

Thank you so much for that update Mike, it makes for a very interesting read. So sorry to hear that the company didn't work out, always sad to hear as it is a fantastic looking yacht indeed and a great mix of cruiser and performer.
__________________

__________________
ausaviator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 21:38   #18
Registered User
 
Multi-man in OZ's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Belmont North NSW
Boat: Pacific 46 - Previous
Posts: 8
Re: This Week's Cat Hunting Expedition

Yes, it is a lovely boat. The hardest thing at the time was to convince potential customers to take the trip to Tarawa to see it. I knew who ever went to see her getting built would buy her. George popped over and stay 3 days going over her, he fell in love with her lines too, plus he got it at a fire sale price. If I can work out how to post pictures I'll put some up for you.
__________________
Multi-man in OZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 22:33   #19
Registered User
 
Ozbullwinkle's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Caringbah, Sydney, Australia
Boat: Farr 44 Ocean Racer - Pit crew & backup helm.
Posts: 602
Images: 16
Re: This Week's Cat Hunting Expedition

Hi Mike, I agree like everyone else that the P46 has great lines & looks like a spectacular boat & it is such a shame that it could not get established in the marketplace against the cats primarily built for the charter market like you mention with those damn flybridges.

I read that Australian Composite Panels tried to resurrect the production of them but also ran into financial problems unfortunately.

What happened to the moulds and the IP? Would there be any chance of getting them built by another Aussie manufacturer say like Seawind in their facility in Vietnam but I suppose that they would then be competing for the same market as their 1250 model.

With their "eye candy" appearance there would surely be a demand for them.
__________________
Ozbullwinkle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 23:43   #20
Registered User
 
Multi-man in OZ's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Belmont North NSW
Boat: Pacific 46 - Previous
Posts: 8
Re: This Week's Cat Hunting Expedition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozbullwinkle View Post
Hi Mike, I agree like everyone else that the P46 has great lines & looks like a spectacular boat & it is such a shame that it could not get established in the marketplace against the cats primarily built for the charter market like you mention with those damn flybridges.

I read that Australian Composite Panels tried to resurrect the production of them but also ran into financial problems unfortunately.

What happened to the moulds and the IP? Would there be any chance of getting them built by another Aussie manufacturer say like Seawind in their facility in Vietnam but I suppose that they would then be competing for the same market as their 1250 model.

With their "eye candy" appearance there would surely be a demand for them.
Yes, Australian Composites Panels took over the IP for the P40 kit and renamed it the Solitary Island 12. They operated under reduced overheads, but unforunatley we didn't have any P40's out there sailing. Compared to say Craig with the Spirited 380 he built to show the market, he also had the Schionning name to build a reputation earlier than we could. We also had both the P46 under construction in Kiri, plus the new factory near Coffs, developed a large vacuum table for laminating 10 x 6m panels at a time, add a massive router and also trying to re-educate the market on the technical avantage of Polycore over Balsa.

It was a hard sell to start as earlier kit designers had aided in the development of balsa panels, they had the market using balsa for such a long time and had plenty of boats out there sailing, plus throw in the bad name (was it?) Multihaven 37 gave to Polycore. Unfortunately the GFC came in just as the market I feel was just about to turn to Polycore. The excitement we generated with the new core, panel & kit benefts, it' sad... a bit like the old VHS vs Beta video player saga in Australia.

The market was becoming aware of the rot issues of balsa, just a small crack/ding, add water a bit of organic ingress such as bird poo = a mushy deck. We had the advantage of a non rot 80kg core, with low resin take up, we could add additional glass for added impact protection and still have a light stiff product. Even if there was a small ding the water intrusion was limited to the damaged cell area, where as even foam will slowly delaminate as the boat skin flexes with movement and heat/cold, this aids in sucking water under the laminate. Although scored foam like resin infusion foams reduce delamination. We used scored foam in our hulls to just above the waterline on the P40 kit as when we resin infused the hull shoe it would conform better to the complex wine glass hulls shape we had developed. Balsa core is very stiff great to main bulkheads if you want to use it, but if used end grain balsa on side panels, take a heavy hit on the jetty and you will transfer the impact directly into your boat causing damage to the internal cupboards. Where as Polycore acts more like a spring helping aborb the impact.

I have to sympathise with those who have balsa boats, there was much invested interest in diverting attention away from the issues of balsa. Hence why some kit manufactures are offering a foam option as it is more proven to the market, but many avoid Polycore as they had bagged it for so long making it hard for them to pick it up and offer it to the market.

I could be wrong (but don't think so) and I stand to be corrected on all I'm saying.

I have contact with the where about of the moulds and gear used to help resurect the P40 if the market ever picks back up. Maybe an offshore venture maybe required, but overall there wasn't much cost reduction in taking the kit production offshore as much of the process didn't require many hands to produce the kits.

Mike
__________________
Multi-man in OZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 01:56   #21
Registered User
 
Ozbullwinkle's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Caringbah, Sydney, Australia
Boat: Farr 44 Ocean Racer - Pit crew & backup helm.
Posts: 602
Images: 16
Re: This Week's Cat Hunting Expedition

Mate, I wish you all the best for the future and would love to see these boats go into production again as they are such a great looking cat.

You need someone with deep pockets who would like to take up a new challenge and get into boat building someone like Dick Smith (a household name in Oz) or Richard Branson.
__________________
Ozbullwinkle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 11:58   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Boat: WTB Lagoon or Leopard 38'-40'
Posts: 1,273
Re: This weeks Cat hunting expedition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp Director G View Post
I sounded pretty knowledgeable didn't I? lol. I just found it online by googling the name of the boat and the word "catamaran". Here's the link. It shows the build on a Kiribati (an island nation) site, but since it's written in "Gilbertese", the language of the island of Kiribati, I have no idea if it's a one-off build or who designed it. The guy who put up the picture is named Mike and is an Aussie. Don't know if it's his boat or he just saw it somewhere. I imagine a bit more googling would do the trick. Also, the pacific 40 is a homebuilt kit design.
Pacific 46 Catamaran - Abatao - KIRIBATI ONLINE COMMUNITY
I've been to Kiribati, and as far as I know there is no factory of any sort there... or maybe that's just what they want the tourists to see. It's a very small horseshoe shaped island where the villagers live in huts. The "king" of the island lives in a large metal shipping container and has a small Honda scooter. Everything else there was supposedly brought or built by Norwegian, including a small "school" building.

Norwegian used to send cruise ships there from Hawaii to skirt regulations requiring a foreign port for foreign flagged cruise ships. We were given the distinct impression that was the island's only commercial activity... clearly we were mislead.
__________________
ArtM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 13:38   #23
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,459
Images: 69
Re: This Week's Cat Hunting Expedition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Multi-man in OZ View Post
Balsa core is very stiff great to main bulkheads if you want to use it, but if used end grain balsa on side panels, take a heavy hit on the jetty and you will transfer the impact directly into your boat causing damage to the internal cupboards. Where as Polycore acts more like a spring helping aborb the impact.

I have to sympathise with those who have balsa boats, there was much invested interest in diverting attention away from the issues of balsa. Hence why some kit manufactures are offering a foam option as it is more proven to the market, but many avoid Polycore as they had bagged it for so long making it hard for them to pick it up and offer it to the market.

I could be wrong (but don't think so) and I stand to be corrected on all I'm saying.

Mike
Yes, actually you are wrong. In an impact a stiffer panel will transmit LESS load on to the internal structure. Imagine hitting a 1/2 inch steel boat with a dinghy. How much of the impact would be transmitted through the skin? Then imagine the same impact with a very flexible panel.

Fact is there isn't the perfect core material. They all have weaknesses. Foam and polycore's weaknesses are just that - compared to balsa they lack sheer and compressive strength. Balsa's weakness is well known - it absolutely must be kept dry.

There's certainly no need to sympathise with balsa cored boat owners. There are hundreds of us who are perfectly happy with our boats. I've met a guy who built his boat 100% of polycore. He had some issues a stiffer core would have improved.
__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 15:02   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: San Antonio, Ukraine.
Posts: 29
Re: This Week's Cat Hunting Expedition

One of them is here: Sailing Tours - Port Albert - Gippsland - Nooramunga

not much info about make.

But, it is environmentally friendly.



So maybe that is a generator.
__________________
El_Guero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 21:00   #25
Registered User
 
Multi-man in OZ's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Belmont North NSW
Boat: Pacific 46 - Previous
Posts: 8
Re: This weeks Cat hunting expedition

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtM View Post
I've been to Kiribati, and as far as I know there is no factory of any sort there... or maybe that's just what they want the tourists to see. It's a very small horseshoe shaped island where the villagers live in huts. The "king" of the island lives in a large metal shipping container and has a small Honda scooter. Everything else there was supposedly brought or built by Norwegian, including a small "school" building.

Norwegian used to send cruise ships there from Hawaii to skirt regulations requiring a foreign port for foreign flagged cruise ships. We were given the distinct impression that was the island's only commercial activity... clearly we were mislead.
There is no island called Kiribati, Kiribati is a nation of 32 atols and one island, the capital island is Tarawa. There is no King of Kiribati, but a president called Anote Tong, who lives in a house provided by the Government. See Anote Tong - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The main income is from Tuna fishing licences, copra and income from Kiribati merchant seaman working on foreign vessels. It's a very poor nation which depends heavily on International Aid.

Mike
__________________
Multi-man in OZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 21:31   #26
Registered User
 
Multi-man in OZ's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Belmont North NSW
Boat: Pacific 46 - Previous
Posts: 8
Re: This Week's Cat Hunting Expedition

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Yes, actually you are wrong. In an impact a stiffer panel will transmit LESS load on to the internal structure. Imagine hitting a 1/2 inch steel boat with a dinghy. How much of the impact would be transmitted through the skin? Then imagine the same impact with a very flexible panel.

Fact is there isn't the perfect core material. They all have weaknesses. Foam and polycore's weaknesses are just that - compared to balsa they lack sheer and compressive strength. Balsa's weakness is well known - it absolutely must be kept dry.

There's certainly no need to sympathise with balsa cored boat owners. There are hundreds of us who are perfectly happy with our boats. I've met a guy who built his boat 100% of polycore. He had some issues a stiffer core would have improved.
I agree there is no perfect core, everything is a compromise, but I might try and clarify what I'm saying about end grained balsa and how impact is transfered from the oustide skin to the internal skin. If you can imagine the difference of hitting balsa on the side of the grain, it will readily dint and absorb a fair amount of the energy of the impact, where as if you hit the end of the grain you will be hitting a harder stiffer section. This is similar to hitting the end of a metal punch where the impact at the top of the punch is transfered to the tip of the punch (one end of the grain to the end of the grain). As an example see: The impact test I feel could have shown even better results for Polycore if new samples had been used for each impact height test.

Mike

Where as Polycore being a plastic is far more shock aborsbent
__________________
Multi-man in OZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 21:43   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 830
Images: 27
Re: This Week's Cat Hunting Expedition

Yep, those ECO-Friendly alloy cats are all the rage. They serve you alcohol straight from the keg so as to not have glasses or plastic cups thrown over the side.
__________________
ausaviator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 21:46   #28
Registered User
 
Multi-man in OZ's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Belmont North NSW
Boat: Pacific 46 - Previous
Posts: 8
Re: This Week's Cat Hunting Expedition

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Yes, actually you are wrong. In an impact a stiffer panel will transmit LESS load on to the internal structure. Imagine hitting a 1/2 inch steel boat with a dinghy. How much of the impact would be transmitted through the skin? Then imagine the same impact with a very flexible panel.

Fact is there isn't the perfect core material. They all have weaknesses. Foam and polycore's weaknesses are just that - compared to balsa they lack sheer and compressive strength. Balsa's weakness is well known - it absolutely must be kept dry.

There's certainly no need to sympathise with balsa cored boat owners. There are hundreds of us who are perfectly happy with our boats. I've met a guy who built his boat 100% of polycore. He had some issues a stiffer core would have improved.
Actually 44'crusingcat, here is a good link to explain the reactions of stiff cores under impact compared to rigid elastic techology cores such as Polycore or Nida-Core.. Nida-Core Lightweight Honeycomb Panels - Specific Rigidity, Energy Absorption, Visco Elasticity, Composite Sandwich Panel

Mike
__________________
Multi-man in OZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2012, 18:46   #29
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: San Antonio, Ukraine.
Posts: 29
Re: This Week's Cat Hunting Expedition

With a better than 30% weight savings over balsa core plywood, the nida-core has some advantages.

Larimar® Balsa

Honeycomb Core - Polypropylene Thermoplastic High Density - Nida-Core 8HP
__________________
El_Guero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2012, 22:16   #30
Registered User
 
Sailorman Ed's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Boat: Polynesia 40/42
Posts: 685
Images: 15
Send a message via Skype™ to Sailorman Ed
Re: Nida Core and savages

I used Nida Core for my replace aft deck and a new bimini top - very happy with the results.

BTW, there is an interesting book, Smoking with Savages I think, about the author's time in Kiribati. A very good read and provides a good insight into Kiribati (directly on the equator).
__________________

__________________
Sailorman Ed is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How Important is this Ground Thingy ? Jetexas Construction, Maintenance & Refit 59 19-06-2012 01:56
Is Anyone Trying to Cross This Week Gemini Dreams Atlantic & the Caribbean 6 10-03-2012 11:33
Is This Possible ? rowingdude Liveaboard's Forum 34 05-03-2012 06:47
What Kind or Brand of Self-Steering Is this ? Surveyor General Sailing Forum 18 28-02-2012 18:23
Best Upwind , Blue Water Cat ? Cruising Couple Multihull Sailboats 192 28-02-2012 16:47



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:07.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.