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Old 21-11-2013, 18:19   #16
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Re: The Ultimate Tri Cruiser Question.

For me, the ultimate tri cruiser question is, why doesn't everybody cruise in one?
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Old 21-11-2013, 18:23   #17
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Re: The Ultimate Tri Cruiser Question.

Cheekee Monkee is an extremely modified F31. Completely not stock. Total race boat. Very nifty boat.

website describing mods by her first owner, Kim Alfreds:
Cheekee Monkee: Monkee Madness? Could this be the <a href='monkeemadness.php'>new Cheekee Monkee?</a>

Then Ron White bought the Monkee and did some more stuff to her, as I understand.

Please don't compare CM to a cruising boat.
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Old 21-11-2013, 18:41   #18
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Re: The Ultimate Tri Cruiser Question.

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Originally Posted by tamicatana View Post
There are two books about the Rose-Noelle, a trimaran who had quite an inversion adventure:

Rose Noelle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Or the Triton, a 31' homebuilt trimaran that capsized off the Pacific coast. One of the three died, one survived until rescue, but died soon after, and one survivor. The book is titled "Lost."
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Old 21-11-2013, 19:22   #19
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Re: The Ultimate Tri Cruiser Question.

Wasn't the Triton the mad missionary who did everything wrong and threw over supplies after the capsize to prove his faith? His wife died first then he after the rescue if it's the one I'm thinking of. Both this and CM are operator error. Flying a chute is the face of 60+ knot lines squalls isn't good cruising. After 20 its time to think about dousing it.
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Old 21-11-2013, 20:09   #20
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Re: The Ultimate Tri Cruiser Question.

Newt, I sailed a 42 ft from Van Isle to San Diego in the Columbus Day Storm in 1964! And She was the best handleing boat in that type of weather ive ever had the chance to sail!! With a heavy line from ama to ama, and a oil bag with a small storm jib, she sailed just fine! Even comfortable enough to be able to cook !! Never came even close to haveing a turn over problem ! I really like Tris and we would be sailing one if we could find a glass one we could afford ! Just my 2 cents
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Old 22-11-2013, 04:46   #21
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If money were no option, I think the Neel tris are really cool. They seem to rival cruising cats in accomodations, and beat them in speed and sailing fun hands down.
i bet it would be tough to flip one any more than a cat?
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Old 22-11-2013, 04:51   #22
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Re: The Ultimate Tri Cruiser Question.

Probably the best cruising tri out there would be one of Chris Whites hammerheads or his explorer series.
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Old 22-11-2013, 06:16   #23
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Re: The Ultimate Tri Cruiser Question.

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Originally Posted by tamicatana View Post
Cheekee Monkee is an extremely modified F31. Completely not stock. Total race boat. Very nifty boat.

website describing mods by her first owner, Kim Alfreds:
Cheekee Monkee: Monkee Madness? Could this be the <a href='monkeemadness.php'>new Cheekee Monkee?</a>

Then Ron White bought the Monkee and did some more stuff to her, as I understand.

Please don't compare CM to a cruising boat.
I'm not. I know nothing about tris beyond hearing the mayday call of one (CM) a couple of miles to port during a squall. The fact that it's flipped more than once is a bit of a tip-off to suggest it's far from "as built".

I suspect it's sailed in a race mode more tricky to manage than a cruiser would attempt, as well.

But it's still a tri and therefore meets the OP's original query, I think, even if it's a rather extreme example.
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Old 22-11-2013, 09:17   #24
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Re: The Ultimate Tri Cruiser Question.

I think the OP specified cruising tris.... CM can be a useful example of how not to sail downwind cruising though. Most of the raceing multihulls inverted in the PNW have all pitchpoled going downwind with chutes. If you are sailing in 35-40 knots of wind going 20 knots the apparent wind is only 15-20 knots across the deck. If you crash into a steep wave back like the Great Lakes or hit a standing wave like in Race Passage up here and bury the bows enough your speed is chopped and that 40 knots of wind in the chute carries the boat over. Greed for speed is the culprit. It is silly even for racers as in high wind races within the Farrier fleets genoas have shown to be as fast down wind. Rig height is another factor. Cruising tris have more moderate mast height while the race rigs have soared making earlier reefing necessary. Fine if you understand it but a problem if you sail it like your old Brown. We have been hit with sudden winds in the BC fjords going past 35 with the chute up but the low rig height gave plenty of time to get the chute down. Keep the speed up to reduce the apparent wind and don't round up.
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Old 22-11-2013, 09:41   #25
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Re: The Ultimate Tri Cruiser Question.

If you look at the above link about cheekee monkee, you will see a big powerboat in one of the photos.
Back then, the powerboat didn't have any graphics on it.

When our Dragonfly was new to us (2000) we were anchored in Shallow Bay on Sucia Island when that power boat came around the corner, dragging Cheekee Monkee (the tri) behind it.
I hailed them on the VHF, offering assistance as it appeared they were trying to bring in an apparently disabled sailboat to a packed anchorage.
Kim politely declined, saying they appreciated my concern.
They side tied the tri, anchored right next to us and ivited us over for snacks and margaritas.

We got a tour of Cheekee Monkee (the tri) and were amazed at all the weight saving stuff he had done. We were sure that detail had been overlooked, but he said he was just getting started!

The powerboat was for his wife, as she didn't like going flat out on the tri, so she just followed him around on the big boat.
It also gave them a great platform for partying and comfort.
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Old 22-11-2013, 10:55   #26
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Re: The Ultimate Tri Cruiser Question.

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Originally Posted by Cavalier MK2 View Post
If you are sailing in 35-40 knots of wind going 20 knots the apparent wind is only 15-20 knots across the deck. If you crash into a steep wave back like the Great Lakes or hit a standing wave like in Race Passage up here and bury the bows enough your speed is chopped and that 40 knots of wind in the chute carries the boat over..
This was pretty much the scenario I heard. In the context of a race, it's understandable, but I posted the video because as far as I know, in the absence of a crane, rigging a bridle to a powerful boat and letting the "submarine effect" get the pointy side up again is the only way to solve the problem of tri inversion, and would be pretty awful to try on a cruising tri.

Given that tris, even conservatively sailed, can clock high speeds, I would find discussion of warps and drogues (series or otherwise) and attachment points to be of interest. A drogue-towing tri is still going to make a fair bit of speed, but with greatly enhanced control and a greater resistance to pitchpoling off a big 'un, I would think.
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Old 22-11-2013, 12:36   #27
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Re: The Ultimate Tri Cruiser Question.

Thank you for the interesting (and civil) discussion, it is very much appreciated. It seems that cruising trims that sail like cruising boats (they pay attention to the conditions and reef /reduce sail) do pretty well. I to am interested in tri's and multi's who have had to brave storm/survival conditions. Did you use drogues, parachutes or what?
It looks like the answer is slowly coming. Thank you all for chipping in.
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Old 22-11-2013, 12:43   #28
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Re: The Ultimate Tri Cruiser Question.

Yes a drogue can be a big help in survival conditions, parachutes can let you get some rest etc....They should be attached to the outer hulls to get the best control, on some boats the aft beam is a stronger option than the cantilevered ama ends.

Tris can be set up for solo righting but it is rare enough to go over that nobody seems to bother. The principles are covered in Jim Brown's book "The Case for the Cruising Trimaran" and in the out of print book "The Capsize Bugaboo". Basically the boat is set up to to flood one end of all 3 hulls and a big water bag is attatched to a couple poles set in an a-frame configuration off the bottom near the center. You winch on a line and the boat pulls around because it can't lift the waterbag, the hull ends are pumped after the boat passes 90 degrees then you clean up. It works on cats and tris and has been tested full size on a Newick tri. Unlike some systems it doesn't matter if the mast is intact or not. Another variation is to use a parasail to pull the end over after one end is flooded. Neither are explored much because the racers tend to get a tow or send for salvage and the cruisers respect the envelope.
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Old 22-11-2013, 12:45   #29
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Re: The Ultimate Tri Cruiser Question.

Why anyone would bring up CM in a conversation about cruising boats is beyond me. She has been so heavily modified she isn't even identifiable as a corsair 31 any more. Bigger carbon fiber rig, hull extensions, deeper foils, water ballast, new beams, gutted, and I heard it now foils... And that's just the stuff I know of.


Take a look at http://www.sailingcatamarans.com/ind...ising-articles the three articles by Richard Wood about abandoning his Eclipse in force 10-11 conditions. The boat were eventually found floating upright and intact after being abandoned.
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Old 22-11-2013, 12:45   #30
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Re: The Ultimate Tri Cruiser Question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy View Post
This was pretty much the scenario I heard. In the context of a race, it's understandable, but I posted the video because as far as I know, in the absence of a crane, rigging a bridle to a powerful boat and letting the "submarine effect" get the pointy side up again is the only way to solve the problem of tri inversion, and would be pretty awful to try on a cruising tri.

.
I believe you can right a tri by flooding one ama to get it rotate halfway. On a smaller tri, you'd then stand on the daggarboard to get it the rest of the way up. On a cruising tri, you'd still probably need a second to haul it up, I think.

You'd also need to wait until conditions calmed down to even try.
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