The sales value of a used multihull

[Goosebumps]

Different factors can determine the sales value, asking price for our used multihulls, ie if a multihull is intended for long cruising in certain area it is better to import it in a country belonging to that cruising area, like cruising East Africa is easier and eventually cheaper if one import his/her yacht in obe of the SADC countries. The consequence would be very high import tax, ie in Mozambique a yacht carries 90% of sale price as import tax. It is clear that there are many other such factors influencing what we can ask as price for our used multihull and I would be gratefull to learn about these factors. Another important factor specific for multihulls for me is the difference between the class B of outboard powered or class A inboard marine diesel powered multihulls. Redundancy is first very important aspect of a class A type multihull. The charging of our batteries still is best first done by our inboards with floating charge regulator controlled high rate alternators, next to alternative charging methods. The obvious reluctance of most cruisers to carry a lot of petrol to power the outboards is very understandable, making another case for inboards. High maintenance claims for inboards is mostly voiced by people not familiar with diesel engines which require little maintenance but clean diesel. Adding that duesel engines inauxiliairy role are much more economic and the weight saving on carrying less fuel for larger range is extremely important for long range cruising multihulls.

I want to mention to forgive my poor English as it is my fourth language. I hope that at CF we can broaden our discussions, contributions to global vision of cruising trying to understand that not all CF members are from USA, or even live or cruise in so-called developed world.

[monte]

Yes the stamp duty, import and vat add costs to any boat. The only way I would like to pay these costs is if I was intending to leave the boat in the area the duties have been paid. Obviously if paid the owner would like to recover the costs, but as a buyer planning to export it would be seen as money down the drain.
I wouldn't recommend anyone buy a European VAT paid vessel unless they're planning on staying in the EU permanently. So the option is buy new or ex charter where VAT hasn't been paid. Also I wouldn't recommend buying a boat in Australia that has had duty paid if planning to bring it to another country. In our case we are sailing an Australian registered vessel, and on arrival in Australia $60000 of duty will be payable. That's a lot and that's why you probably see some yachts advertised at lower prices in the pacific islands, or some vessels skipping Australia and continuing their cruising through Indonesia, Malaysia etc.
If in the case the vessel has been imported to Mozambique at a rate of 90%, I'd suggest the only buyer would be someone who specifically wants to stay and cruise that area for an indefinite period, ie longer than yachts in transit are allowed to stay. Once that fee is paid the potential customer base reduces dramatically unless the yacht is priced without the fee included and the owner takes the loss. I find 90% astonishing and would doubt that many people would pay that when a flag of convenience or simply sailing out of the country before the due date would be more practical and much less expensive. Probably most of them have been caught out by the government and forced to pay. This also happens in other countries regularly but I've never heard of it being as high as 90% ( until now)

As far as outboards v inboards, there's a thread running currently on that topic so it might be worth reading. Pretty much everyone that has either is happy with them for the various benefits of both. We have had inboard diesels in our last two cats and been happy with those, but I'd be just as happy with outboards. There is no class A and class B when referring to either method of power. Many high performance cats have outboards for the reasons mentioned in the other thread. The Oram 48c is one of the few performance cats I'd consider as our next boat, and it's powered by 2 outboards. As far as diesels being better for generating power, that a bit of a myth. Generally the alternator will heat up and output will reduce rapidly after 30 minutes. We never run our diesels to generate power, relying on our solar panels for that. A small generator would be a better option and can obviously be fitted to either inboard or outboard cats.
Personally I wouldn't go for a cat with single engine, be it diesel inboard or outboard. I like the redundancy of two engines.

[smj]

There's no doubt if Mozambique was a popular cruising destination then a multihull for sale there would demand a good price. But my guess is finding a buyer that wants to cruise in Mozambique is a long shot therefore the vessel would probably be worth much less than one located in a popular cruising destination, unless you find the one person that is the long shot.
As far as outboards vs diesels go, it's a subject that's been beat to death and only the owner/buyer can decide for themselves.

[Goosebumps]

Originally Posted by smj

There's no doubt if Mozambique was a popular cruising destination then a multihull for sale there would demand a good price. But my guess is finding a buyer that wants to cruise in Mozambique is a long shot therefore the vessel would probably be worth much less than one located in a popular cruising destination, unless you find the one person that is the long shot.
As far as outboards vs diesels go, it's a subject that's been beat to death and only the owner/buyer can decide for themselves.

The topic is not Mozambique as a cruising destination however it is important to point out that a popular cruising destination is just that popular, often because of the suitability for charter companies to operate there airport, supply center being close by. Great cruising area for me is determined by being more of a hidden jewel where one can still find him/herself alone on the hook in an amazing tropical island environment.

The issue of inboard or outboard is basically not a matter of preference, find a 40 foot cat with outboards? The outboard driven cats simply are not going to be used for serious cruising. Imagine carrying hundreds of liters of petrol, imagine heavy seas and the outboards submerging because of unavoidable hobbyhorsing and what that can do to them. It definitely is an important factor
in this discussion so it has to ve pointed out. If we are going to just do coastal cruising around our marinas go for outboards, when back at the dock use your battery charger plugged into the marinas mains to charge your batteries. Living 8 years on the hook on my cat I find that solar panels combined with running the engines to charge your batteries works well. The engines don't suffer, the resistance from the high rated alternators typically drawing 3-4 Hp makes that the engines work properly.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[smj]

We haven't seen a marina dock for the last 6 months on our twin outboard cat. We don't use our engines to charge the batteries yet they are fully charged by early afternoon. Solar when correctly done is a beautiful thing.

[monte]

Agree on the solar, we too never run the engines to charge and haven't been plugged in to AC for 6 months, except a day to eq batteries. There's many over 40' cats with outboards as I mentioned earlier. Cruisingcat44 on the forum for example and the Aussie owners of the oram 48C on their third circumnavigation I met recently.
That said there's plenty of cats available in both inboard or outboard models and if it's a priority to have one or the other for you, that's where you should focus your search. For me it wouldn't be a high priority and I'd take the whole vessel as a whole, including type, size, accommodation, age, upgrades, equipment, location and price

[Goosebumps]

Originally Posted by monte

Agree on the solar, we too never run the engines to charge and haven't been plugged in to AC for 6 months, except a day to eq batteries. There's many over 40' cats with outboards as I mentioned earlier. Cruisingcat44 on the forum for example and the Aussie owners of the oram 48C on their third circumnavigation I met recently.
That said there's plenty of cats available in both inboard or outboard models and if it's a priority to have one or the other for you, that's where you should focus your search. For me it wouldn't be a high priority and I'd take the whole vessel as a whole, including type, size, accommodation, age, upgrades, equipment, location and price

I would love to get details on your solar panels setup, regulator, age & power of panels, wiring, monitor. Most important I would love to get info on your electric power use, do you have a 12V or 220V set up or both? Have you been in the tropics with your yacht?

Concerning inboard or outboard powered multihull, sure both have advantages but find a cruiser that will prefer the outboard powered one if he had the opportunity to get inboard powered one.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[monte]

Originally Posted by Goosebumps

I would love to get details on your solar panels setup, regulator, age & power of panels, wiring, monitor. Most important I would love to get info on your electric power use, do you have a 12V or 220V set up or both? Have you been in the tropics with your yacht?

Concerning inboard or outboard powered multihull, sure both have advantages but find a cruiser that will prefer the outboard powered one if he had the opportunity to get inboard powered one.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

On our current boat we have 1150W panels, into a victron MPPT controller, into 840Ah wet cell battery bank. We use a mastervolt BM to keep track of usage. We have sailed from Atlantic France to the Caribbean. The BM usually shows 92% first thing in the morning and 100% before mid day at anchor. On passage it takes longer to reach 100% as we are using more power. We run a 220V inverter and as the power is in no short supply, we tend to not try conserve any. We leave 2 laptops running all day, 2 fridges, boil the electric kettle 5 times, leave lights on all night, run the WM whenever we want, wash the decks and dog with freshwater and share it with other cruisers without WM s without a care. Average consumption at anchor is 10Ah and on passage 20Ah, but we could easily reduce those figures by being more sailory
Our last cat had about half that amount of solar and batteries and was also fine at anchor, but would require more conservation on long passages, however it also had a windgen.

Concerning cruisers that prefer outboards, the two I mentioned above both built there own boats. Both are buildable with the option of inboard/outboard. Both are experienced boatbuilders and experienced cruisers and both chose outboards. Both boats are serious world cruisers, not something you might only take in and out for day sails from the marina.

[tomfl]

Approaching three years with out docking and relying on my solar to run an Engle and a Frigaboat 24/7 along with charging electronics for navigation and entertainment and lights. 430 amp house bank and 440 watt pannels. Have 2 9.9 outboards and a Honda 2000 I run once a month or when I am using power tools. Might have a different set up for artic out antarctic cruising but this works for me.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Goosebumps

Concerning inboard or outboard powered multihull, sure both have advantages but find a cruiser that will prefer the outboard powered one if he had the opportunity to get inboard powered one.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

I can point you at plenty, starting with myself. I wouldn't swap my outboards for diesels in a fit.

I also know people with diesels who have seriously considered changing them for outboards.

[svfraidknot]

i have a motor down on my solaris 42 outboards are not an option for sure ,, 2 grand spent not back on line yet ,, but i would not own a sail boat with an outboard motor under any circumstance ,, everybody to their own

[smj]

Originally Posted by svfraidknot

i have a motor down on my solaris 42 outboards are not an option for sure ,, 2 grand spent not back on line yet ,, but i would not own a sail boat with an outboard motor under any circumstance ,, everybody to their own

Both you and Goosebumps own older British built cats, neither known for their performance. On boats like this maybe the diesels would be better as they are more of a motorsailor than a performance boat. But on second thoughts, maybe boats like this would benefit from outboards as you would be carrying less weight and there would be no drag from the props. We owned an older British built cat, a Cherokee 35, and we changes it from a twin drive diesel to a single outboard. Not only could we sail much faster we could also motor faster, and we never caught on fire or blew up!

[Boatguy30]

I'd guess my 34' cat would be a knot slower in light winds with diesels. So would I prefer diesel? NO I prefer to sail!

[smj]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

I'd guess my 34' cat would be a knot slower in light winds with diesels. So would I prefer diesel? NO I prefer to sail!

My guess is with the weight of the diesels and the drag of saildrives and props you could count on well more than a knot+ loss of speed.

[monte]

I doubt that, especially with folding props, but if anyone wants to donate an old sail drive leg ill trail it behind us next sail and give an exact speed difference with/without