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Old 02-05-2015, 15:44   #46
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Re: The sales value of a used multihull

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And btw if I could remove my yanmars and saildrives and install 2 honda 15's I would do it in a second ��

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Go with the 20's. Same size and weight, 25% more power.
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Old 03-05-2015, 04:23   #47
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Re: The sales value of a used multihull

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Go with the 20's. Same size and weight, 25% more power.
I probably would, now how does one convert a well so water doesnt ingress under way? Transom mount would b easy but they would probably grow some legs pretty quickly.

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Old 03-05-2015, 06:19   #48
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Re: The sales value of a used multihull

I think the PDQ type locker setup is best also used on the Maine Cat 30. I basically copied the Maine Cat design for the Vardo as one was docked 1/2 mile from my house and my engine actually were his original engines. As an FYI, I am hoping to replace my 9.9 two stroke with either an ultra long shaft 30" 5 hp Johnson 2 stroke using a special 1972 era OMC 15" extension housing or maybe a 25" 6 hp Tohatsu 4 stroke.

I plan to rejet the carb on the T8 with the 9.9 jets to see if I can get a tad more power which I don't really need but helpful sometimes as I 95% of the time run just run 1 engine.

I don't have exact figures, but we motored roughly 15 hours in our 800 mile cruise we just returned from. Total distance was something like 1100 miles but that 300 was ICW traveling which was like 50/50 motoring and sailing. The 800 was the round trip from Ft Pierce to Ft Pierce.
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Old 24-05-2015, 01:35   #49
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Re: The sales value of a used multihull

It would be great to understand the effect of different countries legislations concerning owning, importing, cruising yachts. Ie to buy a yacht flag from one of the open registry countries and needing to register it in your country involves different costs. In my case to import a yacht in Mozambique carries 90% of value estimated by custom authorities here, imagine. To then buy a yacht registered in Mozambique would have to be priced at value yacht + import tax! It is obvious that then we have to investigate the benefits of being Moz registered! In my case the benefits of Moz registry made it worthwhile to pay that 90%.
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Old 24-05-2015, 14:04   #50
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Re: The sales value of a used multihull

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It would be great to understand the effect of different countries legislations concerning owning, importing, cruising yachts. Ie to buy a yacht flag from one of the open registry countries and needing to register it in your country involves different costs. In my case to import a yacht in Mozambique carries 90% of value estimated by custom authorities here, imagine. To then buy a yacht registered in Mozambique would have to be priced at value yacht + import tax! It is obvious that then we have to investigate the benefits of being Moz registered! In my case the benefits of Moz registry made it worthwhile to pay that 90%.
In simple marketing terms, it means there will never be a market for mozambique cruising boats. Most people will just avoid it or do a short visit without importing the boat. For those rare individuals who want to spend a lot of time crusing there, it's worth the cost and effort to game the system.

While there may be the stray person with an interest in having a boat in Mozambque, the market will never be there. There are too many other crusing grounds they are competing against. (This is not to imply it's a bad place to cruise just that for those with no vested interest in the country, there are too many other competing cruising areas.)
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Old 24-05-2015, 22:49   #51
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Re: The sales value of a used multihull

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In simple marketing terms, it means there will never be a market for mozambique cruising boats. Most people will just avoid it or do a short visit without importing the boat. For those rare individuals who want to spend a lot of time crusing there, it's worth the cost and effort to game the system.

While there may be the stray person with an interest in having a boat in Mozambque, the market will never be there. There are too many other crusing grounds they are competing against. (This is not to imply it's a bad place to cruise just that for those with no vested interest in the country, there are too many other competing cruising areas.)

I didnt give the Mozambique example for anyone to do some Moz bashing or getting back at someone who in other theeads has irritared you simply because of daring to take another view on outboards for a cat! I am genuinely interedted in positive debate here on CF and slowly getting very wary of negative clouds hanging over all my posts by few individuals who know themselves.

i maintain that in my calculation for the purpose Inhave the import into Mozambique of my catamaran made sense! That doesnt imply it has same outcome fir everyones calculation. But because it was and is good fir me does imply that it may suit others.

To repeat, hoping to get normal reply, how do we deal with prices fir yachts, multihulls being influenced by different country customs, taxing, cruising, even immigration, export issues when we consider to buy a yacht. Is the scenario of yachts that we indentify to suit our purpose and are in faraway location not typical for the cruising sailor?
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Old 25-05-2015, 05:50   #52
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Re: The sales value of a used multihull

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I didnt give the Mozambique example for anyone to do some Moz bashing or getting back at someone who in other theeads has irritared you simply because of daring to take another view on outboards for a cat! I am genuinely interedted in positive debate here on CF and slowly getting very wary of negative clouds hanging over all my posts by few individuals who know themselves.

i maintain that in my calculation for the purpose Inhave the import into Mozambique of my catamaran made sense! That doesnt imply it has same outcome fir everyones calculation. But because it was and is good fir me does imply that it may suit others.

To repeat, hoping to get normal reply, how do we deal with prices fir yachts, multihulls being influenced by different country customs, taxing, cruising, even immigration, export issues when we consider to buy a yacht. Is the scenario of yachts that we indentify to suit our purpose and are in faraway location not typical for the cruising sailor?
Settle down. My comments were in relation to the Mozambique market not you in particular.

It would apply to any country that isn't a big cruising destination and applies a huge tax on cruisers. There are few buyers to begin with and the few that thier are tend to be scared off by the price surcharge when the compare to other countries with more reasonable taxes.

But even looking at the EU, there are lots of thread about VAT, it's effect on pricing and how to avoid it...BUT...The EU is a huge and incredibly popular cruising area so you start with a huge population of potential buyers, then the VAT while a consideration is much more reasonable and finally, for locals, they have to pay it regardless, so a VAT paid boat does have a bit more value.
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Old 25-05-2015, 07:35   #53
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Re: The sales value of a used multihull

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I doubt that, especially with folding props, but if anyone wants to donate an old sail drive leg ill trail it behind us next sail and give an exact speed difference with/without
Actually, 1 knot is known to be about right, as there were many PDQs built each way that are otherwise the same. The inboards are a little faster under power (double the HP), but under sail the difference is dramatic.
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Old 25-05-2015, 08:07   #54
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Re: The sales value of a used multihull

Is 1k difference with fixed or folding props?
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Old 26-05-2015, 16:16   #55
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Re: The sales value of a used multihull

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Yes the stamp duty, import and vat add costs to any boat. The only way I would like to pay these costs is if I was intending to leave the boat in the area the duties have been paid. Obviously if paid the owner would like to recover the costs, but as a buyer planning to export it would be seen as money down the drain.
I wouldn't recommend anyone buy a European VAT paid vessel unless they're planning on staying in the EU permanently. So the option is buy new or ex charter where VAT hasn't been paid. Also I wouldn't recommend buying a boat in Australia that has had duty paid if planning to bring it to another country. In our case we are sailing an Australian registered vessel, and on arrival in Australia $60000 of duty will be payable. That's a lot and that's why you probably see some yachts advertised at lower prices in the pacific islands, or some vessels skipping Australia and continuing their cruising through Indonesia, Malaysia etc.
If in the case the vessel has been imported to Mozambique at a rate of 90%, I'd suggest the only buyer would be someone who specifically wants to stay and cruise that area for an indefinite period, ie longer than yachts in transit are allowed to stay. Once that fee is paid the potential customer base reduces dramatically unless the yacht is priced without the fee included and the owner takes the loss. I find 90% astonishing and would doubt that many people would pay that when a flag of convenience or simply sailing out of the country before the due date would be more practical and much less expensive. Probably most of them have been caught out by the government and forced to pay. This also happens in other countries regularly but I've never heard of it being as high as 90% ( until now)

As far as outboards v inboards, there's a thread running currently on that topic so it might be worth reading. Pretty much everyone that has either is happy with them for the various benefits of both. We have had inboard diesels in our last two cats and been happy with those, but I'd be just as happy with outboards. There is no class A and class B when referring to either method of power. Many high performance cats have outboards for the reasons mentioned in the other thread. The Oram 48c is one of the few performance cats I'd consider as our next boat, and it's powered by 2 outboards. As far as diesels being better for generating power, that a bit of a myth. Generally the alternator will heat up and output will reduce rapidly after 30 minutes. We never run our diesels to generate power, relying on our solar panels for that. A small generator would be a better option and can obviously be fitted to either inboard or outboard cats.
Personally I wouldn't go for a cat with single engine, be it diesel inboard or outboard. I like the redundancy of two engines.


Monte,

Have just been reading your great view of the lagoon 400S2 on another post. Very helpful for one who is contemplating buying one.

However, I note you say on this post that you would be liable for customs duty (plus GST, I presume) of around $60,000 on arrival in Australia. Given that your boat I understand is approximately a year old, and total duty is around 17%, isn't that in fact quite low?
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Old 26-05-2015, 16:47   #56
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Re: The sales value of a used multihull

You can value by substitution: how much would it cost to get an equivalent boat, in equivalent place.

Financially-wise, quite simple, truly.

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Old 26-05-2015, 18:19   #57
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Re: The sales value of a used multihull

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Monte,

Have just been reading your great view of the lagoon 400S2 on another post. Very helpful for one who is contemplating buying one.

However, I note you say on this post that you would be liable for customs duty (plus GST, I presume) of around $60,000 on arrival in Australia. Given that your boat I understand is approximately a year old, and total duty is around 17%, isn't that in fact quite low?

Hi Geoff. I believe the dutiable value will be decided on arrival in Australia and rather than inflate that value, I'd prefer minimise the personal cost! I think I would need to find a surveyor/valuer at the time to determine the market value, which should be less than the initial purchase cost. We aren't likely to arrive in Australia for a couple of years, if at all. Our plan is to end up there, but $60,000 is a fair chunk of change so if we are considering continuing for a circumnavigation, or selling to a non Australian, that may effect our plans somewhat. I would expect the GST + duty to be around $60K at that time though.
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Old 26-05-2015, 22:23   #58
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Re: The sales value of a used multihull

Hi Monte,

Sorry, I was under the impression that you were planning to bring the boat back into Australia in the near future. It does beg the question though, regardless of what you or your surveyor may think the boat's market value is presumably at the end of the day Australian customs will make the final determination?
All the best on your cruise, and hopefully we can hear more from you particularly on your opinions re the '400'.
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Old 28-05-2015, 00:55   #59
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Re: The sales value of a used multihull

The discussion invites the question of how do country authorities of the country in which you import value the boat to be imported. Would they accept the purchase price on your purchase contract or they value the boat themselves? It is a rather important question for many if us who want to buy and sell boat.
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Old 28-05-2015, 13:35   #60
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Re: The sales value of a used multihull

Exactly. The point is customs can't simply base the value of the boat on the local market as a previous poster thinks. This is because these boats would have already incurred customs and G.S.T. Further, how the boat was delivered has to be taken into account; if it was F.I.S. from France then customs valuation will include the shipping costs. If it was sailed across, then apparently freight is based on the last port of call before arriving in Australia.
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