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Old 24-03-2014, 10:03   #16
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Re: The remaining question.

So many boats, so many decisions, so many corners to cut.
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Old 24-03-2014, 12:54   #17
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Re: The remaining question.

Tropic cat, I'm not saying that the laminating schedule on the Gemini was anything to write home about (and I suspect that the tendancy towards stress cracks may reflect this), but I don't believe that light passing through is necessarily a sign of inadequate thickness. I had a fiberglass folkboat (Continental 25 built by Whitby Boatworks ) a number of years ago that had a solid fiberglass hull built in the 1960's virtually to the thickness of wood scantlings - way too heavy! Prior to having her awlgripped, in places where the gelcoat was thin/damaged and the interior surface was not painted, you could definitely see daylight through from outside (a sort of light pink color, as I recall). Pretty common in solid glass hulls, I would think.

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Old 24-03-2014, 13:28   #18
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Re: The remaining question.

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Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
Tropic cat, I'm not saying that the laminating schedule on the Gemini was anything to write home about (and I suspect that the tendancy towards stress cracks may reflect this), but I don't believe that light passing through is necessarily a sign of inadequate thickness....
I had to read your post twice. This is the first time I've ever read a post justifying the ability to see the dock through fiberglass laminate. Let me ponder this a bit while contemplating how different our sailing experiences obviously are.

Stress cracks on Geminis are to be expected. Dinghy davits are frowned upon as a dinghy in a davit has been known to damage the boat in short wave period seas. I've seen this happen on the 105MC where it ripped apart the sterns.

Brad, lightly built means just that. I humbly submit that if the marketplace accepted this, PCI would still be building them.
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Old 24-03-2014, 13:49   #19
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Re: The remaining question.

You know, Weavis,

One way to decide this for yourself would be to go spend a while, as suggested already, on a 6 or 7+ year old example of each. Notice if there's anything worn out or shoddy looking on 'em. You'd want to replace that. Maybe those things will fall into categories. Definitely try your hand at raising and lowering the centreboards, I think the chap who wrote in that the c/b trunks would form a feasting ground for all sorts of bouillabaisse there was right.

Check out stress cracks, if any. People will tell you, "they're only cosmetic", but maybe you think the hulls are so lightly built they flex!

Looks for leakage places, too. Compare and contrast--remember those?

Then make up your mind according to your own idiosyncracies.

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Old 24-03-2014, 14:30   #20
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Re: The remaining question.

The advantages of daggerboards are less draught, and better sailing performance. If these aren't important to you, then go for a minikeel boat.

I've read a lot about how much maintenance daggerboards need. Ours must be unique then. No more maintenance than the rest of the boat. Just regular antifouling.

If you antifoul the board and the case, and keep the board up when not in use, the environment in the daggerboard case would be extremely toxic, having the two antifouled surfaces so close to each other, and with so little water movement. We simply don't get ANY growth there.
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Old 24-03-2014, 14:39   #21
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Re: The remaining question.

Yep, Im new to Catamarans but have had several wood and Glass boats over the years. I find that if I treat my knowledge of Catamarans as it really is, minimal, and read a lot, sail on them a bit and ask advice, I can balance that with what I know about monohulls and see where the differences lie.

In the end, whatever I purchase, it will based on an ACCEPTABLE vessel for my needs and requirements that has been obtained through these few months of research. I really have appreciated the blogs that members of this forum have put together about their travels and life aboard. Its all good.
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Old 24-03-2014, 14:41   #22
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Re: The remaining question.

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
The advantages of daggerboards are less draught, and better sailing performance. If these aren't important to you, then go for a minikeel boat.

I've read a lot about how much maintenance daggerboards need. Ours must be unique then. No more maintenance than the rest of the boat. Just regular antifouling.

If you antifoul the board and the case, and keep the board up when not in use, the environment in the daggerboard case would be extremely toxic, having the two antifouled surfaces so close to each other, and with so little water movement. We simply don't get ANY growth there.
Nice one. So, each time you anti-foul, you re-do the inside of the trunk as well as the board? Does that limit where you can haul out, or is it if they can haul a cat, it's all okay anyway? Also, is it physically difficult to get the boards out and get access to the inside of the trunk? What kind of anti-foul are you using? (Questions comes from a mono person).

I'll check back later, we're about to slip the boat, back whenever.


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Old 24-03-2014, 14:45   #23
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Re: The remaining question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canibul View Post
So many boats, so many decisions, so many corners to cut.
LOL...
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Old 24-03-2014, 14:49   #24
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Re: The remaining question.

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Originally Posted by Tropic Cat View Post
This is the first time I've ever read a post justifying the ability to see the dock through fiberglass laminate.
Ah, that is different than how you wrote it the first time. Like Brad, I thought you meant that you could see light through the laminate without the gelcoat. This is normal for even 3" solid glass because there is no pigmentation or other light-blocking stuff in it.

Actually seeing shapes like through it like a window, however, is a completely different thing.

For a reality check, though, I have on the boat right now a sheet of fiberglass I just laid up on a table. It is a single layer of 1oz chopped strand mat (that is thin mat) with polyester resin. I cannot see shapes through it, but it is so thin it can be rolled up and folded and cuts with scissors like paper.

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Old 24-03-2014, 14:52   #25
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Re: The remaining question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
The advantages of daggerboards are less draught, and better sailing performance. If these aren't important to you, then go for a minikeel boat.

I've read a lot about how much maintenance daggerboards need. Ours must be unique then. No more maintenance than the rest of the boat. Just regular antifouling.

If you antifoul the board and the case, and keep the board up when not in use, the environment in the daggerboard case would be extremely toxic, having the two antifouled surfaces so close to each other, and with so little water movement. We simply don't get ANY growth there.
The discussion here is about centerboards, not daggerboards. Centerboards do have maintenance issues daggers do not. Their trunks also collect mud, etc if you have them in shallow water because their length is so long and thin compared to dagger trunks.

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Old 24-03-2014, 15:16   #26
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Re: The remaining question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tropic Cat View Post
I had to read your post twice. This is the first time I've ever read a post justifying the ability to see the dock through fiberglass laminate. Let me ponder this a bit while contemplating how different our sailing experiences obviously are.



Stress cracks on Geminis are to be expected. Dinghy davits are frowned upon as a dinghy in a davit has been known to damage the boat in short wave period seas. I've seen this happen on the 105MC where it ripped apart the sterns.



Brad, lightly built means just that. I humbly submit that if the marketplace accepted this, PCI would still be building them.



The marketplace accepted the Geminis as being lightly built for 30 years, I don't think that's why they quit building them.


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Old 24-03-2014, 15:46   #27
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Re: The remaining question.

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The marketplace accepted the Geminis as being lightly built for 30 years, I don't think that's why they quit building them.

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You are saying that if a boat sells, the builder won't build it?

PCI was forced to face their competition, and love it or hate it the Gemini Legacy 35 is the result, in a rather remarkable turn of events, courtesy of Hunter Marine / The Catamaran Company (sole selling rights). It doesn't appear that PCI builds anything these days. Possibly Telestar 28s???


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
You know, Weavis,

One way to decide this for yourself would be to go spend a while, as suggested already, on a 6 or 7+ year old example of each.
Great advice.
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Old 24-03-2014, 15:52   #28
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Re: The remaining question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tropic Cat View Post
You are saying that if a boat sells, the builder won't build it?

PCI was forced to face their competition, and love it or hate it the Gemini Legacy 35 is the result, courtesy of Hunter Marine. It doesn't appear that PCI builds anything these days. Possibly Telestar 28s???
From what I have read, Tony Smith and family did a deal with Hunter Boats in a downturned economy, his daughter became President of the "new" merger and Tony got a lump sum to retire on. The resultant 35 is an updated vessel to reflect the changing requirements of a new class of boater.

jes sayin'

And no.. again from what I have read, it was not designed by him. I have been on one but cannot compare it to a 105MC because I havent had sails up on one of them... kinda useless in this discussion aint I.........
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Old 24-03-2014, 15:55   #29
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Re: The remaining question.

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... The resultant 35 is an updated vessel to reflect the changing requirements of a new class of boater.

jes sayin'
Yes ... that's right. The 105MC wasn't selling. If it was no one would have spent the cash to modify the moulds, as there's no going back. That was the original point. Is his daughter the President of Marlo-Hunter?
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Old 24-03-2014, 15:57   #30
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Re: The remaining question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tropic Cat View Post
Yes ... that's right. The 105MC wasn't selling. If it was no one would have spent the cash to modify the moulds, as there's no going back. That was the original point.
Well now that is settled... coffee anyone?
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