Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-01-2009, 10:25   #16
KGP
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastcat435 View Post
Hallo Schoonerdog
This is how I started in 2003 to think up a new design for the ideal multihull
The result is the ever improving FastCat 445 with
1. Retractable electric "Motogens"
2. 5 watertight compartments in each hull 3 on the forward bow and 2 in the rear of the boat with a total of 9000 liters volume
3. We have no metal parts under the water line besides the grounding plates and the retractable lightning conductor under the mast. ( standard on all FastCats )
4. bows that can take a hit but if damaged beyond repair they can be replaced and the trip can be continued even if not yet replaced. (Standard on all FastCats )
5. See number 3
6. Tack Tick is standard the idea of Led nav lights with separate solar panels is good but not very praticle and very costly ( switching each one individually will be hard especcially the tricolor on the top of the mast.
7. standard on all compartments
8. Unfortunately panels like this cannot be replaced if broken and the efficiency is very low , only 6 % compared with up to 22% for crystalline solar panels in other words we would have to cover over 3 times as much space for the flexible type. We install 215 Wp solar power standard in combination with one mast head mounted wind generator of 200 watt
9. we do both since there is a lot of demand for both the upward and sideways and I agree being able to see the dolphins between the hulls is fantastic.

10. see number 1 but one step further we make 2 lids in the cockpit floor to be able to remove a plastic bag or replace an anode of these electric motors

Have a great new year

Gideon
Why is it that you find every opportunity to turn a thread into a commercial advertisment, in direct violation to the forum rules? This thread would be far better off if your posts were deleted.
__________________

__________________
KGP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2009, 10:32   #17
Marine Service Provider
 
fastcat435's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Amstelveen Netherlands
Boat: FastCat 445 Green Motion
Posts: 1,649
Images: 10
Send a message via Skype™ to fastcat435
Hallo Ian I am more often wrong than right but that is the after effect of continuously trying to improve the catamaran in general , thinking out of the box costs a lot , not only in time and money but also in making mistakes and trying to improve so these mistakes do not happen again, the Butterfly , the cat we are talking about was improved with more than 450 points , mostly small points but also the lengthening of the bows , the raising of the complete deck to accommodate the owners length, a new type of entrance door and the honeycomb used in the interior, all improvements that where not in the FastCat that we test sailed with and all these items take time.
I am always trying to improve the cats and unfortunately it has slowed the finishing of this boat. The Butterfly is the best boat I have ever build and the next will even be better. I am only doing this for fun since innovating is my hobby but in order to keep on doing that I have to build boats.

Warm Greetings

Gideon

p.s. I think if I asked the owners of the Butterfly what boat they would purchase now if they could choose again they would probably go for the same cat. I will ask them tomorrow.
__________________

__________________
fastcat435 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2009, 10:35   #18
Marine Service Provider
 
fastcat435's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Amstelveen Netherlands
Boat: FastCat 445 Green Motion
Posts: 1,649
Images: 10
Send a message via Skype™ to fastcat435
Hallo KGB

This post is only a reaction to another post where I see that most of what Schoonerdog want in his ideal cat is already present in the cat we build. I do not even advertise since we are again sold out for 2 years so why would I , it would only be a waist of m0ney for somebody else to invent the wheel all over again.

Greetings
Gideon
__________________
fastcat435 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2009, 10:44   #19
KGP
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastcat435 View Post

This post is only a reaction...
Your reactions often result in a glass of purple kool-aid. The kind that leaks.
__________________
KGP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2009, 10:50   #20
Marine Service Provider
 
fastcat435's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Amstelveen Netherlands
Boat: FastCat 445 Green Motion
Posts: 1,649
Images: 10
Send a message via Skype™ to fastcat435
I do not know what purple kool aid is but maybe you have had to much of it and it has shrunk the brain cells ?
You do not have to read what I write but there are others that do like what i write or they can do something with it.
Good luck with your Kool Aid whatever that may be.
__________________
fastcat435 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2009, 11:10   #21
KGP
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastcat435 View Post
I do not know what purple kool aid is...
It's this.
And in case you need to know what leaks are - link.
__________________
KGP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2009, 11:20   #22
...

Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 483
Quote:
Originally Posted by KGP View Post
It's this.
And in case you need to know what leaks are - link.
I have to break my word - Absolutely mint KGP - well said. and everything else you have posted.
__________________
ireaney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2009, 12:45   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastcat435 View Post
Hallo Ian I am more often wrong than right but that is the after effect of continuously trying to improve the catamaran in general , thinking out of the box costs a lot , not only in time and money but also in making mistakes and trying to improve so these mistakes do not happen again, the Butterfly , the cat we are talking about was improved with more than 450 points , mostly small points but also the lengthening of the bows , the raising of the complete deck to accommodate the owners length, a new type of entrance door and the honeycomb used in the interior, all improvements that where not in the FastCat that we test sailed with and all these items take time.
I am always trying to improve the cats and unfortunately it has slowed the finishing of this boat. The Butterfly is the best boat I have ever build and the next will even be better. I am only doing this for fun since innovating is my hobby but in order to keep on doing that I have to build boats.

Warm Greetings

Gideon
Hi

As the owner of Butterfly I would like to set the record straight. I will stick to the facts and the truth as I see it.

Butterfly was ordered in Dec 2006 with a promised delivery of Dec 2007. During the first year or so of the build most of the significant improvements were made - for example, more headroom, better bows, hard top bimini, honeycomb interior.

In Feb 08 I met with Gideon to agree when the boat would be completed. After much discussion I was promised emphatically it would be completed by May 8th 08. Consequently I quite my job and moved out to Durban expecting the boat to be ready. The delay from Dec to May was not a big issue from my perspective, as most of the good improvements were made before Feb 08.

Upon arrival it was clear the boat was far from ready. Since May to date it has been a very expensive (at least 7 months lost earnings) and frustrating story from my perspective. These comments will not be news to Gideon.

Progress on Butterfly has been painfully slow - I attribute this primarily to a lack of focus / management and the necessary skills and attention to detail at the shop floor level. Most of the QC work on the boat has been conducted by ourselves. Let me make it clear the boat is now an additional 8 months ( not the stated 5 months) late and only a few improvements have been made during this period. Have we changed our minds on a few things? Certainly - 4 that I can think of, but nothing that can explain the staggering delay.

Of course we hope Butterfly is a great boat - however currently we are still sitting in Durban with a list of things that still need fixing - as you can imagine our frustration and anger grows daily.

Quote:
p.s. I think if I asked the owners of the Butterfly what boat they would purchase now if they could choose again they would probably go for the same cat. I will ask them tomorrow.
Gideon - don't ask you probably would not like the answer - as I have said on many occasions please just focus on getting Butterfly finished.

Regards

Dick
.
__________________
of Butterfly and Barnacle - sailing blog
dickj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2009, 12:59   #24
KGP
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by dickj View Post
Hi
Gideon - don't ask you probably would not like the answer - as I have said on many occasions please just focus on getting Butterfly finished.

I feel for you, Dick. To speak negatively towards the builder has to be a tough thing to do, as you most certainly want to maintain a good working relationship for whatever the boat's future might bring. I suspect you are stuck as far as what your options might be. Wondering - if you had the option of a full refund...
__________________
KGP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2009, 13:22   #25
...

Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 483
Hi Dick,
Myself and many others have been following your Blog and have been truly amazed by your patience, I admire the way you have handled this and like everybody else hope that when Butterfly and Barnacle is finished you will have the boat you have paid for and both yourself and Karen have some great adventures.
Best regards and wishing you safe cruising.
Ian
__________________
ireaney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2009, 13:27   #26
CF Adviser
Moderator Emeritus
 
Hud3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Virginia
Boat: Island Packet 380, now sold
Posts: 8,929
Images: 49
Hi, folks. This is getting pretty far afield. Let's get back to the original topic of the thread, shall we?
__________________
Hud
Hud3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2009, 16:15   #27
Senior Cruiser
 
Therapy's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: W Florida
Boat: The Jon boat still, plus a 2007 SeaCat.
Posts: 6,894
Images: 4
One thing I would want on the ideal multihull would be a contract with delay clauses, kinda like I did not have on a house I had built..........stupid me.
__________________
Therapy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 09:17   #28
Senior Cruiser
 
schoonerdog's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2004
Location: annapolis
Boat: st francis 44 mk II catamaran
Posts: 1,174
Images: 4
Howaya, you actually have done a "No Thru hull" design. That's fantastic! I do like the retractible engine design, and special inspection ports to lift and remove the engines are right on target. My only thought would be if designing it from scratch, make the below waterline conduit integrated into the hull with the penetration into the hull far above the waterline. I've got to admit my thoughts are not based on "I think a commercial vedor should do X,Y, and Z" because some of my thoughts (like below) would probably lie outside the realm of what most people would want. I like retractable outboards frankly as long as they are kept forward enough. No matter what remote island you're on, there are always local fisherman who use outboards and have parts. I also like the retractible electric motors as electric motors are sealed, have very few moving parts, and typically they can run 20,000 to 50,000 hours between failure.

Regarding the water tight compartments, too few catamarans really have this designed in. African cats has a great design for that. I must admit my approach would take that even further, lifting the entry way for the interior cabins to have those serve as above water level bulkheads with all wiring, plumbing, etc well above the waterline so no penetrating limberholes between the cabins. I frankly doubt any commercial vender would ever want to do that as it might be quite a lip for people to walk over. I'm guessing it would be around 18" or so above the hallway flooring in the cabins. I think for the watertight crash compartments I'm building into my forward bows as the flooring for the forelockers lockers the best solution I've heard for filling them is instead of foam which MAY get waterlogged, or keeping them open as PDQ does but would allow a lot of water to ingress into them in a breach and pull the boat down more than foam, is simply filling that area with empty 2 liter bottles. Their big enough that they can fill the space and do most of the work of foam, but if you need to access that area you can still easily remove the bottles through and inspection port.

I think for the interchangeable lights, it would be an expensive solution if you were to make a one off perhaps. But really your talking about a more sophisticated version of the cheap solar powered garden lights with interchangeable color filters, perhaps a bit bigger solar on the top with more powerful LED light and then somesort of RF switch. I'm guessing you could make one for around $40 or so. Tacktick actually has a FAR more sophisticated solution as they need to have RF transmission and reciept of data.

One would also think that there would be some sort of coating one could put on the outside of fiberglass that would be resistant to burning and while it might allow the tranmission of heat, wouldn't allow the actual fiberglass itself to be exposed to oxygen and therefore it might char and degrade at the heat source, the fiberglass wouldn't become fuel for an ongoing fire. I guess this is an opportunity for people to inform my optimism with hard earned knowledge. Valiant once tried putting fireproofing in the fiberglass itself. It was a collosal failure as the material created blisters after only a year.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Howaya View Post
I've also long believed it is possible and desireable to have no thru-hulls. I actually came up with a solution that, so far, works fairly well. The previous owner installed just one bronze thru-hull, for the head, but I've plugged that and opted for a porta-potty. Aren't those (expensive) composting heads self-contained and a fair alternative?

My hi-thrust outboard does kick up free and clear from the water, and so there is almost no metal below the waterline. For bigger installations aren't those Sillette legs still available?

As for sea water intake to the galley, I've plumbed a retractable hose with a strainer on the end. In an effort to keep things simple, it is powered by a foot pump; but those who like to just turn a knob could use an electric pump.

It sounds like Gideon has addressed these issues pretty well.

Michael
schoonerdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 09:24   #29
Senior Cruiser
 
schoonerdog's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2004
Location: annapolis
Boat: st francis 44 mk II catamaran
Posts: 1,174
Images: 4
I like the water tight hatches going forward inside. And it looks like it extends quite a way back from the bow of the boat, which is also good. My only thought regarding that would be the hulls look very narrow going forward from the births with comparatively little flare out above the waterline, so I wonder about the reserve capacity of this space. I also wonder if it would tend to bury her bows a bit more than other designs due to that knife blade bow design. Not a detraction from the boat, just an idle thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikereed100 View Post
I like to be reminded that I'm on a boat rather than trying to live the illusion that I'm in a condomium.

Good point.

3) no metal below the waterline.

I have long wondered why we have metal prop struts. Why not just make one up of fiberglass or carbonfiber and glass it to the hull? Eliminate a zinc and a potential leak point.


4) Replaceable striker plate rubrails on the leading edges of the boat.

The Edel H42's have a "bumper" on the leading edge of the hull, similar to what you describe.
http://www.aeroyacht.com/H42/Gallery.htm



Lots of good ideas Schoonerdog!

Mike
__________________

schoonerdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
multihull

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Trying to Find the Ideal Anchorage!! Macopa Atlantic & the Caribbean 0 30-05-2008 12:33
Ideal Chesapeake spot MysticGringo Atlantic & the Caribbean 7 10-07-2007 21:54
Ideal Cruiser eskfreedom Monohull Sailboats 22 20-12-2006 02:53
the ideal boat.... orcabait Monohull Sailboats 5 14-01-2005 08:08
Ideal Liveaboard nigelpf Liveaboard's Forum 2 31-07-2004 12:45



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:39.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.