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Old 07-02-2015, 05:36   #646
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Re: The Flyin Hawaiian is gone!

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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
I realize this is entirely subjective, but with what RH had onboard and their level of preparedness I wouldn't venture more than 100 mi from land. But that's just me, I prefer at least a backup for everything if not a 3rd source of water, or power, or communication, etc.

So a SSB, sat phone, VHF wouldn't do it for you? How about solar, towed generator, alternator? They were outfitted like virtually every other boat that makes that trip!!
You statement sounds like someone who prepares forever and never goes anywhere!


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Old 07-02-2015, 06:34   #647
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Re: The Flyin Hawaiian is gone!

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So a SSB, sat phone, VHF wouldn't do it for you? How about solar, towed generator, alternator? They were outfitted like virtually every other boat that makes that trip!!
You statement sounds like someone who prepares forever and never goes anywhere.m
His level of preparedness sounds much more reasonable that the two knuckleheads who required CG rescue. One who was using scavenged bamboo as a whisker pole and the other who used Home Depot lumber and joist hangers to hold his floating death trap together.

There's simply no way to fix stupid. Although Dawin's theory suggests nature has a way of possibly preventing a follow up performance by the same maroons, unless... The Coast Guard intervenes.
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Old 07-02-2015, 07:33   #648
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Re: The Flyin Hawaiian is gone!

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Old 07-02-2015, 09:05   #649
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Re: The Flyin Hawaiian is gone!

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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
Regardless of HR's lack of boat building talent, or RH's preparedness, they both ended up getting rescued over 100 mi from land, but nowhere near their destination.

2 different levels of knowledge, exact same outcome. It doesn't really matter how much RH knew or how well prepared they thought they were, if you end up in a CG sling while your boat sinks, it's exactly the same, isn't it?

I realize this is entirely subjective, but with what RH had onboard and their level of preparedness I wouldn't venture more than 100 mi from land. But that's just me, I prefer at least a backup for everything if not a 3rd source of water, or power, or communication, etc.
Although I did not know HR, I had met RH in La Paz. Like stated before, he and his boat were pretty typical of lower budget cruisers who take off across the pond. He wasn't a minimalist by choice but rather by time table and money availability. Believe me, a satphone is a luxury and most do not have one. 20-30 years ago he would be in the majority, wit the way his boat was outfitted. Now with all the new fancy electronics and other modern systems such as watermakers, Harry and Harriet homeowner are out there on their Huntbenelina writing cooking and cruising guides.
Another person I met in Ensenada and then in La Paz, was a chap from Canada, on a sistership of mine. He is now in New Zealand. His vessel has less than mine or RH's boat. He is doing just fine and last I communicated with him may continue on around the world. In a sense, it's the luck of the draw.
I suspect RH's boat had rot in the deck in the area of a stantion. This is typical for an old Taiwan boat with plywood decks with teak overlay. That's right....no fiberglass. Whether RH knew that or not would be speculation on my part. I'm no surveyor but I can smell rot when I go onboard a boat. Decks just don't develop a gapping hole with the boat being torqued from stresses due to rough weather. There is usually something else compromising them first. Rot being the major player.
If you're a blue-collar person (I am), you go when you can. I have lots of rebuilt used items on my boat and I just wanted to get "out there". I didn't want to end up being the living dead on a sailing forum "still looking for a boat" and fooling myself that I am a cruiser. For me, it would be living a lie.
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:00   #650
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Re: The Flyin Hawaiian is gone!

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So a SSB, sat phone, VHF wouldn't do it for you? How about solar, towed generator, alternator? They were outfitted like virtually every other boat that makes that trip!!
You statement sounds like someone who prepares forever and never goes anywhere!


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Yes, that would, but RH didn't have all of that. IIRC, he couldn't raise anyone and had to resort to an EPIRB. Why were they taking on water? Why were they low on battery power? They didn't have enough fuel to run the engine long enough to keep the batteries fully charged. I don't think they even had a water maker. If they had a useful amount of solar (if any) they wouldn't have had a low battery.

There was also some tank - water or diesel, I don't recall which - that sprang a leak and he just removed it and didn't replace it with another before they left.

My insistence on redundancy is born of my time in the sub service, where we had 3 independent sources for everything. Electric, hydraulic and pneumatic. Nuclear reactor, battery and diesel generator. Every electrically operated valve also had a manual mode.

Before every underway, we did an extensive refit period to repair anything that was broken, then performed pre-underway checks of all equipment to ensure it's still performing up to standards.

Now, I carry 2x 10 lb fire extinguishers in each car, 3 in each trailer, 3 in my house, spare parts in each trailer, etc. I like being prepared and not having undue hassles because I took shortcuts or don't carry parts or tools. It's something we're taught in sub school - there isn't anyone we can call to come get us because no one knows where we are. We HAVE to master damage control, whether it's a grease fire in the galley or a reactor spill or a major leak in the hull, we have to fix it, and fast. Sometimes coming to the surface for fresh air isn't even an option.

Like I said, it's entirely subjective. I prefer to be very well prepared, possibly more so than average, but that's not a bad thing. Catastrophes usually aren't the result of one failure or bad decision, they're the result of deferred maintenance, a leaking hatch, a broken pump, a dying alternator, a poor decision to leave with small children, not enough fresh water, a bit of bad weather, etc. Anyone could handle any one of those issues, but add them all up, and they were stepping onto a Navy RIB as soon as it got there. Sure, everyone focuses on the sick child, but that was only one issue of MANY all going on at the same time.
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:06   #651
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Re: The Flyin Hawaiian is gone!

There is another thread for this topic you know. We all unsubscribed from it for this reason but you can go back there and stir this up if you like

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Old 07-02-2015, 12:19   #652
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Re: The Flyin Hawaiian is gone!

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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
Yes, that would, but RH didn't have all of that. IIRC, he couldn't raise anyone and had to resort to an EPIRB. Why were they taking on water? Why were they low on battery power? They didn't have enough fuel to run the engine long enough to keep the batteries fully charged. I don't think they even had a water maker. If they had a useful amount of solar (if any) they wouldn't have had a low battery.

There was also some tank - water or diesel, I don't recall which - that sprang a leak and he just removed it and didn't replace it with another before they left.

My insistence on redundancy is born of my time in the sub service, where we had 3 independent sources for everything. Electric, hydraulic and pneumatic. Nuclear reactor, battery and diesel generator. Every electrically operated valve also had a manual mode.

Before every underway, we did an extensive refit period to repair anything that was broken, then performed pre-underway checks of all equipment to ensure it's still performing up to standards.

Now, I carry 2x 10 lb fire extinguishers in each car, 3 in each trailer, 3 in my house, spare parts in each trailer, etc. I like being prepared and not having undue hassles because I took shortcuts or don't carry parts or tools. It's something we're taught in sub school - there isn't anyone we can call to come get us because no one knows where we are. We HAVE to master damage control, whether it's a grease fire in the galley or a reactor spill or a major leak in the hull, we have to fix it, and fast. Sometimes coming to the surface for fresh air isn't even an option.

Like I said, it's entirely subjective. I prefer to be very well prepared, possibly more so than average, but that's not a bad thing. Catastrophes usually aren't the result of one failure or bad decision, they're the result of deferred maintenance, a leaking hatch, a broken pump, a dying alternator, a poor decision to leave with small children, not enough fresh water, a bit of bad weather, etc. Anyone could handle any one of those issues, but add them all up, and they were stepping onto a Navy RIB as soon as it got there. Sure, everyone focuses on the sick child, but that was only one issue of MANY all going on at the same time.
And again,,,this is all speculation on your part and you should stop doing it. I was there when Eric took off from La Paz to anchor out in La Cruz just before the pond crossing.
1)They were taking on water due to the gapping hole at the hull to deck joint. Offshore, it's a washing machine out there.
2) Yes, they did have a water maker. A Katadyne 40 if I remember correctly.
3) Solar only works if you have sun. Most of the days, they did not.
4) They had a water tank that was a problem and bought a very large plastic water container that they had lashed down.

You talk of redundancy while on a sub. Of course you missed the prior point I was trying to make and that is...you were on the tax payers nickle, which spends like a drunken sailor. This is the real world where you go with what is at your comfort level.
I don't know why all you armchair sailors do this. You didn't know RH, you don't have any facts and as mentioned earlier, most likely not a boat. You carry all this crap in your home, trailer and car, waiting for something to happen. Do you stand in front of a window and duck every other second just in case someone might throw a rock at the window?
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:21   #653
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Re: The Flyin Hawaiian is gone!

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There is another thread for this topic you know. We all unsubscribed from it for this reason but you can go back there and stir this up if you like

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Feel free to lead the conversation, or click on another thread, or unsubscribe, or do something.

I've never understood that. Whenever I've been in a topic that wanders off I simply click to a different topic. It never occurred to me to bitch at others about it.

Although we're still talking about FH and RH and their similarities, what would Your Royal Highness prefer to discuss?

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Old 07-02-2015, 12:23   #654
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Re: The Flyin Hawaiian is gone!

Have to agree with socal about rh's problems not being the result of just one thing. When someone says they have started a major passage in a leaky boat I have to wonder about their judgment. Add in a sick kid and another kid which requires the wife's full attention along with an older boat that needed more work and it sounds like a disaster in the making.

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Old 07-02-2015, 12:28   #655
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Re: The Flyin Hawaiian is gone!

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And again,,,this is all speculation on your part and you should stop doing it. I was there when Eric took off from La Paz to anchor out in La Cruz just before the pond crossing.
1)They were taking on water due to the gapping hole at the hull to deck joint. Offshore, it's a washing machine out there.
2) Yes, they did have a water maker. A Katadyne 40 if I remember correctly.
3) Solar only works if you have sun. Most of the days, they did not.
4) They had a water tank that was a problem and bought a very large plastic water container that they had lashed down.

You talk of redundancy while on a sub. Of course you missed the prior point I was trying to make and that is...you were on the tax payers nickle, which spends like a drunken sailor. This is the real world where you go with what is at your comfort level.
I don't know why all you armchair sailors do this. You didn't know RH, you don't have any facts and as mentioned earlier, most likely not a boat. You carry all this crap in your home, trailer and car, waiting for something to happen. Do you stand in front of a window and duck every other second just in case someone might throw a rock at the window?
Rather than get into a ridiculous discussion with you about being prepared vs being a moron who ducks thinking a rock might be coming, I'll leave you with this one thought.

They had to get rescued. Period. That's how I measure success or failure. You either make it there, in which case you might have been well prepared (or just lucky, apparently) or you didn't, which points to a problem of some sort.

I'd call that particular voyage a cautionary tale, on every level.
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:53   #656
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Re: The Flyin Hawaiian is gone!

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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
Rather than get into a ridiculous discussion with you about being prepared vs being a moron who ducks thinking a rock might be coming, I'll leave you with this one thought.

They had to get rescued. Period. That's how I measure success or failure. You either make it there, in which case you might have been well prepared (or just lucky, apparently) or you didn't, which points to a problem of some sort.

I'd call that particular voyage a cautionary tale, on every level.
No...my main point was you speculating without facts from an armchair.
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Old 07-02-2015, 13:27   #657
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Re: The Flyin Hawaiian is gone!

I seem to remember that RH had, besides all the boat problems and the sick child, a wife with essentially zero passage experience. IIRC, she wrote about how unhappy being offshore made her... this added to the work load of caring for two children, one a sick infant.

So, Eric was really singlehanding the boat as well as being burdened with helping cope with the other problems on board. He didn't have a chance by that time. I think that the sat phone issue is a red herring. I can't imagine what he could have learned over that phone, had it continued to function, that would have made the rescue unnecessary. The child needed competent medical help.

But none the less, compared to the FH, he was well off: he had lots of time at sea in his previous life o n sport fishing boats (IIRC). He had successfully sailed the boat as far as the SOC. The boat was of a conventional and successful design. The FH could say none of those things... the only similarity is the need for rescue.

IMO, they represent two different degrees of poor seamanship and preparation, and Eric's, while ultimately unsuccessful, was incomparably better than Hot Rod's.

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Old 07-02-2015, 13:49   #658
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Re: The Flyin Hawaiian is gone!

any more news about fh?? just wondering

what I don't understand is why did they have a pregnant lady on board,
she could have taken a bus to LA and meet them there and not risk life.
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Old 07-02-2015, 14:38   #659
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Re: The Flyin Hawaiian is gone!

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No...my main point was you speculating without facts from an armchair.
That's an assumption on your part. I'm working from memory based on RH's own posts.
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Old 07-02-2015, 14:56   #660
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Re: The Flyin Hawaiian is gone!

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There is another thread for this topic you know. We all unsubscribed from it for this reason but you can go back there and stir this up if you like

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