The Flyin Hawaiian is gone!

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by SV Snow Goose

Did you read my post?

I never defended HR's thought processes or judgement.
I just said is their a kinder way to communicate, "Hey, there are those who have a lot of experience who are concerned about you. They believe your boat is VERY unsafe. We are concerned about you. Please have a dialogue with us." ?
vs.
Let's eat popcorn and watch this douche bag fuggin break apart!!!

That was tried multiple times by multiple people over the years of his building.

Now it is "down the road" and yes it is floating but no, it could never sail an ocean. Unless like the proverbial 40 year old hammer that has had only three replacements - Two handles and one head.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Matt sachs

Is there an update on the actual topic of this thread? Is she still afloat? How is HR doing?Has the Harley gone in the bay yet?

You need to go to another forum where updates are frequent.

[SV Snow Goose]

Originally Posted by Target9000

Sitting in a pub and a public forum are similar because in both cases the conversation can be overheard but isn't purposefully directed at the person being discussed.

If your analogy is worked to it's logical conclusion...

Every word spoken in the pub would not be "overheard" but written on the Pub's wall. The wall would likely never be painted over. Thousands of people could read the wall at the same time from the comfort of their own home. Did I mention the pub has a webcam? And microphones hanging from the ceiling? If you believe a PUBLIC FORUM is somehow an intimate setting that you MIGHT be overheard in, then that is absolutely your right. Now if this was a private chat room I would agree wholeheartedly.

but it isn't.

[Target9000]

Fair enough point, but so was mine.

I suppose I won't be changing your mind Sv Snow Goose. I'm tired of trying to help you guys understand that we can discuss things without being hateful. Apparently many of you aren't pragmatic enough to understand that it isn't this way.

You can join up with the other CF Hall Monitors keeping the Internet safe from negativity and I'll just back out of this thread.

[ElGatoGordo]

Originally Posted by SV Snow Goose

P.S. I would love to hear someone who has actually undertaken a project with the same kind of scope as HR has taken on. Would you have such un-tempered criticism for HR?

I've said a few times YES I have (see avatar) undetaken a similar project and YES I fully support the extreme criticism he has received.

I REALLY pushed the boundaries of boat design with El Gato. Or at least I thought I did until FH came along. Now I feel dang near mainstream! With my sharpie hulls, AC plywood, and "up-sized" instant boat building methods. ...hell I'm a freak of boat building!

The difference? 5 other boat builds. I actually DID study many, many designs. I sought advice and defended my wacky ideas to many well intentioned and knowledgeable folks. I changed some things and added others. The things I felt were a "concern" I overbuilt to an extreme degree, like my beams that could hold up the Golden Gate Bridge.

My point? I am qualified as a wacked out builder of boats. Only mine is tested and proved. And while it's still not MAINSTREAM... it's safe.

HR has and will continue to cause harm to the reputation and public perception of boaters, boat builders, and liveaboards in general. If you doubt that, read the press. Further, he will (there is no debate here) cost us cold hard cash in either rescue or cleanup, or both. And finally he's assured others will not be treated as well at the marina and anchorages he had attended. Simply put, he is one of "those guys" that ruin it for the next guy. He's an IDIOT (from the Greek idios, meaning he doesn't know) and deserves all this and much more!

[IdoraKeeper]

HR was smart enough to build the FH....I bet when he gets out of jail he will reconsider any blue water adventures. After all the FH doesn't even have steering at last report. Drifting an uncommanded vessel out the gate is unlikely.
As for forum abuse, I recall that some folks have even criticized Mark J. for circumnavigating a Bene. Furthermore I seem to recall that Boatman took quite a trip in a plywood vessel down in Oz while waiting to get paid. We have all kinds here. Most folks were envious except for the not getting paid part.

[salticrak]

Originally Posted by SV Snow Goose

If your analogy is worked to it's logical conclusion...

Every word spoken in the pub would not be "overheard" but written on the Pub's wall. The wall would likely never be painted over. Thousands of people could read the wall at the same time from the comfort of their own home. Did I mention the pub has a webcam? And microphones hanging from the ceiling? If you believe a PUBLIC FORUM is somehow an intimate setting that you MIGHT be overheard in, then that is absolutely your right. Now if this was a private chat room I would agree wholeheartedly.

but it isn't.

Originally Posted by ElGatoGordo

I've said a few times YES I have (see avatar) undetaken a similar project and YES I fully support the extreme criticism he has received.

I REALLY pushed the boundaries of boat design with El Gato. Or at least I thought I did until FH came along. Now I feel dang near mainstream! With my sharpie hulls, AC plywood, and "up-sized" instant boat building methods. ...hell I'm a freak of boat building!

The difference? 5 other boat builds. I actually DID study many, many designs. I sought advice and defended my wacky ideas to many well intentioned and knowledgeable folks. I changed some things and added others. The things I felt were a "concern" I overbuilt to an extreme degree, like my beams that could hold up the Golden Gate Bridge.

My point? I am qualified as a wacked out builder of boats. Only mine is tested and proved. And while it's still not MAINSTREAM... it's safe.

HR has and will continue to cause harm to the reputation and public perception of boaters, boat builders, and liveaboards in general. If you doubt that, read the press. Further, he will (there is no debate here) cost us cold hard cash in either rescue or cleanup, or both. And finally he's assured others will not be treated as well at the marina and anchorages he had attended. Simply put, he is one of "those guys" that ruin it for the next guy. He's an IDIOT (from the Greek idios, meaning he doesn't know) and deserves all this and much more!

Building my first catamaran, I have the greatest respect for those smart people who do all the engineering etc.

[savoir]

The rationale behind threads like this is pretty simple . . . . . . . . . . . . . people love train wrecks.

It was ever thus.



For those interested, as at 21 August Hotrod remains in Sutter County Jail and the bike ( not a Harley ) remains in parts unknown.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Coops

Here is another side. Let's say that you are talking to a guy in a pub. He says, I am going to walk out of here and close my eyes and walk straight across the busy freeway outside because that is my dream. Now, do you say to him, well mate, that is your right and good luck, or, do you tell him that he is an idiot and try and stop him? Which is right and which is wrong?

Coops.

Indeed there are two sides to this story. There is a certain amount of evidence that HR has done some fairly idiotic things building his boat, which look even worse considering the boasting he has done. That naturally stimulates (a) an honest and helpful impulse to set him straight; and (b) a less honorable fascination and sick pleasure at watching him fail -- Schadenfreude, and both of these attitudes can coexist in the same person.

Others object to the Schadenfreude and see arrogance in it, and in some cases we see real nastiness in HR's detractors. These people are also absolutely right. We all have a little HR in us somewhere, and who of us has never done anything arrogant or stupid? Let him then cast the first stone.

There's really no point in arguing about it. There's plenty of merit on both sides.

[Stu Jackson]

Whew!

I just read a couple of pages on SA (62 & 63, the more recent ones).

Those discussions make this one looks like a very nice polite group of skippers who simply may have different points of view, and express them very well with consideration, in the main, for others.

That said, some of their photos of "boat babes" seem to be "missing" from this thread. What a shame...

Keep up the good work. Too bad he's anchored (well, maybe) in Richardson Bay, I used to like hanging out up there. There goes the neighborhood.

[SV Snow Goose]

Originally Posted by Target9000

Fair enough point, but so was mine.

I suppose I won't be changing your mind Sv Snow Goose. I'm tired of trying to help you guys understand that we can discuss things without being hateful. Apparently many of you aren't pragmatic enough to understand that it isn't this way.

You can join up with the other CF Hall Monitors keeping the Internet safe from negativity and I'll just back out of this thread.

Seriously confused as to how you think I am against critical discussion. I am only stating that I believe a discussion can be had without being nasty. I'm not saying you are nasty. I haven't called anyone else out either. I am just saying some of the responses and attitudes have been that this human being is trash.

So me giving my opinion makes me a hall monitor?
Tell me where I have told people what to do. I have been very clear that I feel people can do whatever they want. I too can do what I want, so I posted my opinion. My opinon which frequently begins with "I believe". I am not purporting to be some wise person. People responded and I commented on their response. I am not arguing with you, but rather having an open discussion about ideas, isn't that the whole point?

[ElGatoGordo]

The conversation is so stale without some changes in the subject at hand!

[SV Snow Goose]

Originally Posted by ElGatoGordo

The conversation is so stale without some changes in the subject at hand!

Thanks for your response on the similar experience. I will gladly shut my pie hole now.
I was just trying to get to my first 15 posts out of the way.

[boatman61]

I look at it this way... HR is performing a valuable public service... while all the experts are on his case... a few of us are getting a welcome break...

[muskoka]

Originally Posted by salticrak

Building my first catamaran, I have the greatest respect for those smart people who do all the engineering etc.

Wharram's are beautiful boats. I like his design sense and his attention to detail.

If HR had simply bought a set of plans with the builders estimated cost for materials, he could be well along the path to owning a nice Tiki 40-ish footer.

Self-building is enough of a challenge without assuming the role of naval architect as well.