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Old 04-08-2013, 21:05   #136
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Re: The Flyin Hawaiian is gone!

How dare this guy to go and build his own boat -- just like that --and take it sailing. The nerve!

Where does he think he's living? In a free world where you can do WETF you want as long as you don't hurt someone else or muddy the water?

Cluck old hens, cluck I say, ain't laid an egg since way last may....

Definitely more than two camps. Some of us just don't really care. You know, freedom and all that.

This guy better tighten up. Cruisers Forum is watching him........

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Old 04-08-2013, 21:47   #137
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Re: The Flyin Hawaiian is gone!

We're still waiting on the sailing part.
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Old 04-08-2013, 21:55   #138
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pirate Re: The Flyin Hawaiian is gone!

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Originally Posted by Sand crab View Post
We're still waiting on the sailing part.
Give the guy a break... dya even begin to realise how long it takes to hand sew sails...
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Old 04-08-2013, 22:09   #139
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Poked around the web a bit with help from a couple members here. Threads on a few forums with about 3,000 posts give or take a couple hundred.

All the early posts said he'd never get it built. Once built the predictions where it would break up on launch. Once launched forum wisdom said it would sink at the dock never leaving the marina. After leaving the marina it was said he anchored in the wrong place and would break up there.

Think he's surpassed all the forum experts expectations so far and wonder if he hasn't learned a thing or two along the way as he has progressed? Hot Rod seems pretty adaptable to me so far. He's also accomplished more with less than many folks, at this rate I wouldn't be surprised if he does go cruising with it. Also wonder if he's aware of all the Internet speculation about his craft or plans. If he is aware he doesn't seem to care and thank goodness he doesn't.

I always root for the doers in society and he certainly has proven to be one so far.
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Old 04-08-2013, 22:21   #140
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pirate Re: The Flyin Hawaiian is gone!

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Poked around the web a bit with help from a couple members here. Threads on a few forums with about 3,000 posts give or take a couple hundred.

All the early posts said he'd never get it built. Once built the predictions where it would break up on launch. Once launched forum wisdom said it would sink at the dock never leaving the marina. After leaving the marina it was said he anchored in the wrong place and would break up there.

Think he's surpassed all the forum experts expectations so far and wonder if he hasn't learned a thing or two along the way as he has progressed? Hot Rod seems pretty adaptable to me so far. He's also accomplished more with less than many folks, at this rate I wouldn't be surprised if he does go cruising with it. Also wonder if he's aware of all the Internet speculation about his craft or plans. If he is aware he doesn't seem to care and thank goodness he doesn't.

I always root for the doers in society and he certainly has proven to be one so far.
"Better to try and fail... than never to try at all".... who said that... musta been someone famous...
Or was it "If at first you don't succeed... your techniques all wrong"
Damn... this is excellent brandy
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Old 04-08-2013, 22:28   #141
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Re: The Flyin Hawaiian is gone!

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"Better to try and fail... than never to try at all".... who said that... musta been someone famous...
Or was it "If at first you don't succeed... your techniques all wrong"
Damn... this is excellent brandy
You back from across the pond you ole soak?
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Old 04-08-2013, 22:34   #142
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Re: The Flyin Hawaiian is gone!

Just for the record, I don't care if the guy's boat holds together or not. Well, I actually hope it works out great, but it's none of my business either way. I do hope that nobody gets hurt.

Where cases like this are worthy of scorn is where the builder deliberately ignores good advice and ends up building a piece of junk. I don't know if this is the situation with the Hawaiian, but it sure was with the David Vann "Tin Can". Vann made it his entire premise that just anyone could build a globe-girdliing boat without any experience, engineering, or mechanical skills. He made a point of building his boat with "poets and potters" rather than experts, he ignored well-meaning technical advice, and the results were a complete disaster. If the boat hadn't started to break up while still in sight of land (just a few miles into his journey) he might very well have died.
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Old 04-08-2013, 22:40   #143
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I've debated about wading into this new thread, knowing it will go away soon. But hey, I've got some time.....

So my perspective is that of a guy who HAS built a boat. Several actually. Including a 32ft plywood catamaran. Of my own design. From non-marine plywood. And no, I'm NOT a NA. This cat (my current boat) has been offshore several times in calmish conditions up to 7ft seas. And sailed over 12kts in 40+ winds. AND I've broke stuff. Including a mast tabernacle. Yeah, that sucked.

So to all the kumbaya crowd, the "Hey it's a free County" types, the "At least he's a doer" peeps, etc, etc....I ask you THIS:

Will you please defend the BOAT? Will you look at the "beams" and say yes, you believe they will work (they will not). Will you look at the spans on the vertical sides and say yes you believe they can take an open seas impact of a 15ft wave on the beam? (Mine certainly can't and is built WAY better). Will you think clearly about a guy and his crew with zero sailing skills, on an unproven design, planning a daunting trip, and say yes, you believe they can do it?

What I'm asking is: is it enough to just "do" and we should respect that? Should we all applaud the guy because he's "living the dream" despite ignoring EVERYTHING about the 1000 designs he supposedly looked at that makes them sea worthy?

I say no. We should not.
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Old 04-08-2013, 22:45   #144
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pirate Re: The Flyin Hawaiian is gone!

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Originally Posted by salticrak View Post
You back from across the pond you ole soak?
Been back since the 12th July... job was a blowout... got bullshitted into a fixed price (discounted) then the owner stuck to their original agenda which doubled all the costs to me... try getting a flight from Europe 4 days before Independence Day... so after sitting in the Ecnolodge in NJ for 6 days I costed up and found 3/4 of my fee had already been spent in travel/hotel costs etc so I decided to head home before I started spending my own money.. did that last year. Fool me once... shame on you... Fool me twice.. shame on me... Trip home was a buga... plane to London, Coach to Paris, train to Irun, train to Salamanca and finally a train to Coimbra... 4 days travelling... its the holiday season and every things booked solid.
The boat still had not arrived in NYC from Charleston... a mere 500 miles in 10 days.
Last I heard was BVIMatelot was feeling sympathetic... maybe they're sailing now...
1st time I've walked away from a job.. not nice... but I've bills to pay like everyone else...
Been a painter and decorator the last 3 weeks...
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:07   #145
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Re: The Flyin Hawaiian is gone!

I'm with ElGatoGordo. This boat is a (very) slow moving train wreck. The major issue with cats and tris are those cross beams. Visualize each hull twisting, flexing, pushing, pulling independantly of the other hull. Modern catamarans rigidly brace these together with beams. Nowadays they are a bit more like a monocoque car construction so you can't see the beams but engineering wise they are there. The other school is to let them flex a little and tie the beams to the hulls with ropes like Wharram and the Polynesians. It is notable that even Outremer had major issues with these same connections in one of their 64' cats which resulted in a lawsuit. And yet these beams are totally absent in the FH. It is worth noting that cats are far more difficult to engineer and build ($$$$) than monohulls because of these issues. It can be done but winging it without doing your research is not the way and bigger is much more involved and costly to do it right.
It is worth noting that at the beginning of the Sailing Anarchy thread a surveyor did not give the boat a satisfactory evaluation. And Hot Rod is going to take his mother who sometimes uses a wheelchair to the South Pacific in this!
It is also worth noting that this cat has not moved anywhere under it's own power. It is being towed by a ski boat. It does not have engines, working sails, keels, daggerboards or functional steering. I believe it does not have winches or hardware. It is a pretty cool party barge, however.
Here's a pic of a 64' cat's crossbeams. Also note that this cat's hulls were built with 1" (16 plys) marine grade ply and was designed by the famous NA Nigel Irens. The FH was built with 3/8" CDX (3 plys) ply which is about the cheapest stuff you can buy and is not marine rated. Now, what does Nigel Irens know that Hot Rod doesn't? A lot!
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:49   #146
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Re: The Flyin Hawaiian is gone!

Interesting post today on main beam failure which resulted in the loss of a beautiful cat. See post #14
Looking for C/S/K Catamarans
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:54   #147
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Re: The Flyin Hawaiian is gone!

I just got an email on that beam pic. It's from here.
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Great photo journal on how to build a big cat or any cat/boat.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:10   #148
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Re: The Flyin Hawaiian is gone!

Look, I'm not calling this thing seaworthy or anything like that, but....

almost all said it would fall apart and soak up water and sink. I'm not saying it won't! But so far, this guy is the one laughing.

I read in another thread on another forum, they says something like, "maybe Rod never intended to take it out of the bay and he was just toying with people with his plans for sailing it to Hawaii." If there is any truth to that, he could be reading the forums laughing his arse off about all of our structural and sail size comments.

The question I have is how freaking hard is it to get that harley on and off of that boat! Movable ballast?

I like following the threads about Hot Rod to see what's going to happen next.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:35   #149
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My Outhouse has been a target of ridicule by many. While the boats performance may not impress the racing community and her cockpit drains far to slow for my tastes, I think she is a sweet ride. Some of her critics were big enough to offer something of a retraction.

http://www.boatus.com/boatreviews/sail/OutIsland41.asp

I have spent the last year sailing and working on getting this old girl where I want her. Part of that was heading into conditions other boats were heading away from. Yes, I have tucked tail a couple of times. No, I don't think the FH is quite ready to challenge the beast. Not my call.

I'm guessing Hot Rod hasn't put his drawing board away. If I were closer I would drop anchor and tilt a few with them just for being aboard and afloat. If one of you drop by please give them my best wishes.

My point is that announcing destinations and timetables with an untested or under construction vessel is a big mistake in a personal project. It has been the ruin of many a commercial job..

The time, scope, cost triangle shouldn't be set in stone when working on something that you are making your own.

Changing tack is a fact of life as we well know.

I think of them jury rigging the scooter to a paddle wheel and grin.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:54   #150
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Re: The Flyin Hawaiian is gone!

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Been back since the 12th July... job was a blowout... got bullshitted into a fixed price (discounted) then the owner stuck to their original agenda which doubled all the costs to me... try getting a flight from Europe 4 days before Independence Day... so after sitting in the Ecnolodge in NJ for 6 days I costed up and found 3/4 of my fee had already been spent in travel/hotel costs etc so I decided to head home before I started spending my own money.. did that last year. Fool me once... shame on you... Fool me twice.. shame on me... Trip home was a buga... plane to London, Coach to Paris, train to Irun, train to Salamanca and finally a train to Coimbra... 4 days travelling... its the holiday season and every things booked solid.
The boat still had not arrived in NYC from Charleston... a mere 500 miles in 10 days.
Last I heard was BVIMatelot was feeling sympathetic... maybe they're sailing now...
1st time I've walked away from a job.. not nice... but I've bills to pay like everyone else...
Been a painter and decorator the last 3 weeks...
No wonder you're so cranky!
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