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Old 19-10-2015, 15:35   #1
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The Evolution of "Condomarans"

The day was Friday, October 9/2015 at the boat show">Annapolis Boat Show. I will always remember that day and where I was... (one of those life reflecting moments), in a small way.
I talked with the salesman seated and made note of the FULL size stainless refrigerator (which probably weighs more than some multis owned by respected members of this Forum), at least its a Samsung, their pretty reliable.
But how does this boat (a Catana product, a Bali 43) sail and perform fitted out this way I pushed... what of rough, bouncy weather, out there..
how is it secured? and powered? His answers were vague... "oh she sails really well", etc etc.
"Not as well as your 471, but still real good..."

When you are at the dock or permanently on a ball (with your generator running furiously) this boat will be plush... of that I have no doubt.

What is next in the Evolution of "Condomarans" ?

Bob
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Old 19-10-2015, 15:38   #2
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

Good lord.

That thing looks scary in a seaway!
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Old 19-10-2015, 15:43   #3
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

Nice hat Bob......

Seriously though, I find it hard to give a rats regarding the development of this type of Catamaran.

I dont like them.
I cant afford them.
I dont want them.

More into the development of nice cruising cats with good legs, easy to sail and comfortable interiors.

You have one of those.

These are for a certain type of sailor. Nothing wrong with their choice, just not the type of sailing I do, so interest is minimal.

Wonder if that fridge would even fit in my kitchen at home?
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Old 19-10-2015, 15:59   #4
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

Given that probably the majority of the last few generations of "cruising cats", outweigh their lead keel toting bretheren by 1.5-2x or more... I mean, what else is possible?
Many owners of said "sailboats" already have a gianormous array of debaucherous toys onboard. Ones which, 99% of Americans will never even have in their own homes, so, yes, my question's rhetorical.

For me, the question posed by one owner of these monstrosities, which "jumped over the shark tank" for me; was her inquiring as to how best to get her Nordic Track, Eliptical, or some other silly thing onboard, & where to put it, so that she could get enough daily excercise.
Geez!

This with; 1001 boat chores to do - from sail trimming, to just attaching a jerry jug to a halyard, & hoisting it repeatedly (if you lack imagination, or run out of real boat work). Lots of room for all kinds of excercises on deck - all of the way from no impact, to high (Yoga, Tai Chi, Pilates, Calestenics, Circut Training...). Lots of things to use in lieu of dumbells & barbells. Dinghies to row, windsurfers to sail, snorkeling, swimming, & SCUBA. Or in it's most basic form, row ashore & go for a walk, or run.
Yeah, a list limited but by the mind. So apparently some people's are in Hannibal Lecter's level of restraints.

I couldn't begin to even conceptualize her mindset At All.
Okay, rant mode off.
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Old 19-10-2015, 16:57   #5
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

It's not a Cat thing or at least isn't exclusive to them.
My Wife's Father worked as a Engineer for Hatteras, I believe in the 70's, he tells me that there was honestly an option to order one without motors, obviously meant to never leave the Marina.
I don't think he was joking.


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Old 19-10-2015, 17:15   #6
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

From one of my favorites...

Come, gather round people wherever you roam
And admit that the waters around you have grown
And accept it that soon you'll be drenched to the bone
If your time to you is worth saving
Then you'd better start swimming or you'll sink like a stone
For the times, they are a changing

Bob D.


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Old 19-10-2015, 18:14   #7
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

I saw it on Dusseldorf last January and did not even visit it, it was monstrous enough looking from the outside.

But the sad thing is that seems to be the mainstream evolution on cats, I mean the type of cat that most of the ones that want a cat desire. I guess that the next step will be to get rid of the mast and sails...lots of motorcats being sold...and many just look like a condo cat without mast.

Anyway, even if not cheaper it costs a lot less than a same sized Catana, offering more space...that's the general idea and purpose of the boat. Cheaper space and lots of it. The huge refrigerateur goes well with the general picture.
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Old 20-10-2015, 00:29   #8
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

I think the main factor driving this trend is the charter market where the bulk of boats are sold. When most people charter a boat, they look at the spec and 4 wc/showers, 2 fridges, freezer and ice maker look a better bet than lesser boats. The success of Lagoons in tapping this market is driving the likes of Fountaine Pajot, Catana and others down this route. The new FP 40 is almost identical overall length to my FP Athena, has 4 wc/showers and lots of goodie options and weighs almost exactly twice that of the Athena. Inevitably, the massive increase in weight plus the consequential increase in hull width will mean these boats will sail less and motor more. Not for me, but until the market rejects this trend (unlikely) will continue.
I don't know why people are surprised by this, it is just mirroring what has happened with RVs. Monohulls are following the same trend, fortunately there is still more choice available with monos.
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Old 20-10-2015, 01:54   #9
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

Absolute newbie here: about to set off on the adventure (house on market, life on ebay, broker in the wings). I wonder why you wouldn't want a full size fridge/freezer in a catamaran? Why would there be a preference for bending under a bench when you could simply swing open a door and reach in? The absolute majority of weight in an upright fridge - even fully loaded) is down low so it wouldn't take too much to anchor it safely and securely despite its appearance. All I read is that 98% of cruising is at anchor or mooring/pontoon; so surely luxury and comfort are desired. Not directly related solely to the Bali but... Why are those thin foam matresses the standard fitting when inner spring seems to make more sense. Why the little "office" in Owners versions when a decent size bathroom would be more useful. Why are there no "heads" up top in the salon where gravity feed to the holding tank would seem more sensible? And on that... Why does the term 'toilet' attract such derision when a "head' is a throw back to times long gone when ablutions were literally done over the "head" of the ship (as in near the figurehead on the bow). Anyway...back to the Bali...
I went aboard the vessel in question at the Sydney Boat Show and was impressed (again I am a newbie looking for the cruising life: not so much a "sailor" as a potential global traveler). The challenge for me has been finding unadorned critiques - as opposed to simple criticisms: the sales people spruik their boats and condemn the competition (as you would expect). Cheers
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Old 20-10-2015, 02:08   #10
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

The market delivers what the customers request.

I looked at a house 15 yrs ago that had a tiny 3 car garage with no room for a workbench or deep sink. It did have a huge master bath with double vanity and walk in closet. When I questioned the salesman about the garage and master suite, he laughed and said, "You don't decide which house to buy, your wife does. You just pay for it. This is what women want, this is what sells, so this is what we build."

So back to the current crop of boats. Vote with your wallet. Buy what you like. That's what everyone else is doing, and they're asking for a big fridge with an ice maker in the door.
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Old 20-10-2015, 02:10   #11
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackduck View Post
Absolute newbie here: about to set off on the adventure (house on market, life on ebay, broker in the wings). I wonder why you wouldn't want a full size fridge/freezer in a catamaran? Why would there be a preference for bending under a bench when you could simply swing open a door and reach in? The absolute majority of weight in an upright fridge - even fully loaded) is down low so it wouldn't take too much to anchor it safely and securely despite its appearance. All I read is that 98% of cruising is at anchor or mooring/pontoon; so surely luxury and comfort are desired. Not directly related solely to the Bali but... Why are those thin foam matresses the standard fitting when inner spring seems to make more sense. Why the little "office" in Owners versions when a decent size bathroom would be more useful. Why are there no "heads" up top in the salon where gravity feed to the holding tank would seem more sensible? And on that... Why does the term 'toilet' attract such derision when a "head' is a throw back to times long gone when ablutions were literally done over the "head" of the ship (as in near the figurehead on the bow). Anyway...back to the Bali...
I went aboard the vessel in question at the Sydney Boat Show and was impressed (again I am a newbie looking for the cruising life: not so much a "sailor" as a potential global traveler). The challenge for me has been finding unadorned critiques - as opposed to simple criticisms: the sales people spruik their boats and condemn the competition (as you would expect). Cheers
98% of cruising at anchor is not where the problems arise.
Its the moving of the vessel, the necessity to miss the storms, the difficulty in docking it, the weight of the vessel loaded with your own toys, the restriction of places able to lift the vessel out of the water, the cost of running the gadgets and stuff in Fuel burn, the extra maintenance required when something goes wrong.

I would love it at the dockside- I just dont want to pilot it in rough weather.
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Old 20-10-2015, 04:28   #12
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackduck View Post
Absolute newbie here: about to set off on the adventure (house on market, life on ebay, broker in the wings). I wonder why you wouldn't want a full size fridge/freezer in a catamaran? Why would there be a preference for bending under a bench when you could simply swing open a door and reach in? ...
Contrary to what happens on land where the fridge is connected to the power line when you sail the frigo is connected to the batteries so you would want it to be as efficient as possible.

Cold air is denser than hot air and it stays on the bottom so when you open a vertical fridge all cold air comes out. When you open a horizontal fridge with an opening on top, the cold air stays in. Imagine that instead of cold air you have water and imagine the difference opening the two different fridges.

Obviously if the cold air stays on the fridge when you open it the loss of temperature when you open it is way less than the one when you open a vertical one and much less batteries charge will be needed to restore the initial cold temperature.

Of course if you want a condo cat to be mainly at the marina that does not matter and I agree with you.
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Old 20-10-2015, 05:33   #13
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

Take out that 1/4 settee ....

And you would have an awesome place for a deep fat fryer...
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Old 20-10-2015, 07:02   #14
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackduck View Post
I am a newbie looking for the cruising life: not so much a "sailor" as a potential global traveler
Hi Blackduck - good luck on your transition to a cruising life. By "newbie" do you also mean that you're new to sailing altogether? - or just new to cruising?

I get asked pretty often by wanna be cat owners which cruising cat they should get. Even before asking how much they can spend I ask, "Do you want a sailing machine you can also live on, or do you want a living-on machine that you can also sail?" There is no correct answer - just an answer that may help you define your boat market.

Dave
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Old 20-10-2015, 07:05   #15
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

Quote:
Originally Posted by weavis View Post
Nice hat Bob......


More into the development of nice cruising cats with good legs, easy to sail and comfortable interiors.

You have one of those.

These are for a certain type of sailor. Nothing wrong with their choice, just not the type of sailing I do, so interest is minimal.

Wonder if that fridge would even fit in my kitchen at home?
Thanks Weavis, I love my boat and chose it for its first design priority: Sailing!... for enjoyment, safety, speed and overall simplicity.
It is a comfortable boat but its living area might only equal the "New" 40', 42' etc designs (maybe...) that we all see now.

That fridge would not fit in my present kitchen....

Forgive me all for saying this but are these type of boats really for any type of "Sailor" ?

@ Blackduck, it sounds like this type of boat meets your design priority goals and if you can afford one then start shopping...
Oh and thats not me in the first picture with the hat, I took these pictures

Bob
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