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Old 13-02-2016, 12:23   #211
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

"Oh no we don't agree on that point, but each to their own."
Well said Monte.

"I have some difficulty to understand" Polux you got that right!

"I can only say that sailors are even more different among them than what I thought possible"

Polux you are starting to see the light, we are all different and all enjoy doing different things for different reasons. I enjoy reading about what other people do or enjoy, but I don't like being told that we all agree when we obviously do not.

We all must be mad because why would any one want to own anything other than a fast European sports car.

To follow your analogy they would never sell a motor home, family style car or even a vintage car or truck because we all agree that the only thing any of us should be driving is a Porsche or a Lotus.
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Old 13-02-2016, 12:26   #212
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

Something like that. I had an x5 but never treated it like that...maybe I should have though! Now days a Renault traffic is my preferred ride...bed, surfboards and guitar in the back, room for 3 and a ukelele in the front. Maybe I'm just getting old
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Old 13-02-2016, 12:35   #213
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
If condo sailors (monohulls or multihulls) enjoy as much sailing as the ones that have more sportive and fun boats to sail, being it monohulls or multihulls, it seems to me that they did not chose the right type of boat, the one that will deliver the more rewarding sailing in what regards sensations and pleasure.
So if the sailor is happy with his choice, he's wrong? Because you think he should have bought something else?
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Old 13-02-2016, 12:37   #214
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

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Something like that. I had an x5 but never treated it like that...maybe I should have though! Now days a Renault traffic is my preferred ride...bed, surfboards and guitar in the back, room for 3 and a ukelele in the front. Maybe I'm just getting old
It amazes me the number of times when talking to people we meet while cruising that have one or more of the following interests. Besides sailing very fast race optimized, responsive mono hulls that is.

Music ie: Play some sort of instrument
Art: be it Painting, Sculpture, Graphic or Written.
Motor Cycles.

You all must agree.
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Old 13-02-2016, 12:44   #215
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

True Paul, but maybe not so amazing given that most sailors probably fall into some gypsy/hopeless romantic/stupid enough to own a boat type demographic. You would have laughed last night, beach fire in Barbuda and 3 Aussies and a frenchie teaching 4 Germans row row row your boat and give me a home among the gum trees to amuse ourselves (didnt take the guitar)
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Old 13-02-2016, 16:09   #216
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

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For me, personally, It you make the same sense as saying that driving a truck is as fun as driving a Porsche or a Lotus.
Driving trucks can be a lot of fun, just not in the same way as driving a 911. Each to their own, so I don't really see the point of your posts.
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Old 13-02-2016, 18:12   #217
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

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...last night, beach fire in Barbuda and 3 Aussies and a frenchie teaching 4 Germans row row row your boat and give me a home among the gum trees to amuse ourselves...
sounds brilliant ...and we're guessing the word 'condomorans' was never heard?!
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Old 13-02-2016, 18:45   #218
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

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--------------------------

I love cruising, even on my cheaper, sluggish boat ( I refuse to call it a yacht) because:

- I love the saense of accomplishment of making passages - sometimes more challenging ones due to our relative lack of speed and windward ability - and arriving at new destinations.
- I love a night passage out of sight of land and, on clear nights, sailing in a star-lit, circular dome.
- I love the 'couples' solitude - just the women I love and myself.
- I love living largely 'off the grid.'
- I love dolphins frolicking in our bow wave.
- I love bioluminescent wakes.
- I love experiencing new lands and peoples without the restraints inherent in resort vacations - without having a gate and a time table.
- I love the sound of the sea.
- I love tuning/trimming my boat to maximize her performance, however modest it may be.
- I love making love to my wife on the trampoline under the stars.
- I hate storms, but I love the sense of accomplishment once you are through them.
- I love how small and insignificant the seas can make me feel.
- I love being able to view the heavens without the interference of ambient light.
- I love being able to turn a rainy day into a way to augment our tanks and watermaker.
- I love being free to go where I want and, subject to wind and weather, when I want.

I could go on and on. I feel sorry for those who are frustrated racers and who cannot enjoy the cruising experience without being able to gloat that mine is bigger and faster than yours. I understand them, but I feel sorry for them nonetheless. Whatever they are, they are not in my opinion 'cruisers'. And they are missing the enlightemment that comes with experiencing and understanding our insignificance, rather than our superiority, in relation to nature and the wonderful planet that we all inhabit.

Brad

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Old 04-04-2018, 08:59   #219
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

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Maybe that is your opinion I don't think that way.

If I had the money for it this is certainly one of the boats I would like to own and I had said already that I was very interested on a Dragonfly that my wife found that did not have enough interior space and storage for her.
The SIG is an interesting boat, but not one to relax on under sail when the breeze is up. There is a lot going on. That may be your cup of tea, but when cruising, some prefer a greater margin of safety.
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Old 05-04-2018, 04:16   #220
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

The biggest problem for those of us who would like to have a performance cruiser is that they are usually even more expensive than the big 3 boats. Catana, Outremer, etc..... are great boats, and I can definitely see my wife and I aboard one, but we'll never be able to make those payments. :-(

Our Corsair 36 is great fun, but the space aboard seems to be getting smaller as I approach 70, and a comfortable cat with an elec winch for the main beckons more and more! Unfortunately, as somebody has already pointed out, the market is driven mostly by charterers and I don't see the condo trend ending any time soon.

Best regards,
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Old 05-04-2018, 12:27   #221
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

[QUOTE=LeeV;2610521 Catana, Outremer, etc..... are great boats, and I can definitely see my wife and I aboard one, but we'll never be able to make those payments. :-(

...as I approach 70, and a comfortable cat with an elec winch for the main beckons more and more!
Best regards,[/QUOTE]

What about island berths? Do you really want to be crawling down the foot of your bed in your Outremer at 70? Or more frequent provision runs to the market at 70 because you don't have large stowage/refrigeration? Or nice big engine rooms to change the oil or check the impeller vs crawling under a bed in an Outremer at 70?

I hate the word "condomoran" because people who don't sail them call them trucks compared to a Porsche when it's more like comparing an Aston Martin to a Porsche. One is a sports car and one CAN BE a Grand Tourer. 14kts of speed is fun and productive for anyone living aboard. Watching Riley and Elayna hit 21kts in their Outremer was exciting, but hardly practical and questionably safe for anything over a quick sprint.

Yeah, the Lagoons in the ARC rally logged 80hrs of motor (13% of their race), but it was a race not a cruise and they finished that 25 day race a day behind the Outremer. How practical is that difference in the real world of cruising?

While the Bali line may fit that condomoran moniker, I reject it for Lagoon, Leopard, FP, and any other cat that can and does gracefully and safely take their sailors all over the world.
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Old 05-04-2018, 12:54   #222
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

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What about island berths? Do you really want to be crawling down the foot of your bed in your Outremer at 70? Or more frequent provision runs to the market at 70 because you don't have large stowage/refrigeration? Or nice big engine rooms to change the oil or check the impeller vs crawling under a bed in an Outremer at 70?

I hate the word "condomoran" because people who don't sail them call them trucks compared to a Porsche when it's more like comparing an Aston Martin to a Porsche. One is a sports car and one CAN BE a Grand Tourer. 14kts of speed is fun and productive for anyone living aboard. Watching Riley and Elayna hit 21kts in their Outremer was exciting, but hardly practical and questionably safe for anything over a quick sprint.

Yeah, the Lagoons in the ARC rally logged 80hrs of motor (13% of their race), but it was a race not a cruise and they finished that 25 day race a day behind the Outremer. How practical is that difference in the real world of cruising?

While the Bali line may fit that condomoran moniker, I reject it for Lagoon, Leopard, FP, and any other cat that can and does gracefully and safely take their sailors all over the world.
I liked it from the reality of age. What makes sense at 35 doesn't at 70.
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Old 05-04-2018, 13:51   #223
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

Your responses are off target and sound defensive since I wasn’t condemning “condos” (I only used the term to indicate the category of boats that was being discussed), and even pointed out that as I’ve grown older our trimaran has shrunk, and that the luxuries of said “condos” appeal more and more.

If anything, I was pointing out to the member who ridiculed the big 3 cats that performance cats are way out of the budget of 95+% of the population.

Indeed, we are selling our baby and moving to a cat - most likely a used FP or Leopard.

As for age I’m 65 and neither look or behave the part and know many older sailors aboard small monos and tris sailing the world. God bless ‘em!
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Old 05-04-2018, 14:31   #224
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

I think my tone was misunderstood. Sorry about that.

I was in agreement and trying to point out all of the other benefits of the big 3.

The second part about "Condos" wasn't really directed at you, but at what I consider a false narrative about the performance aspect of the Big 3. While Bali uses residential refrigerators and lounge areas in place of trampolines which make them not well suited for true bluewater cruising, The big 3 take a minimal performance penalty in real world conditions vs performance cruisers. Factor in quality of life and an $800k discount over their performance brethren and I'll gladly take a 3kt reduction in speed.
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Old 05-04-2018, 14:57   #225
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

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Yeah, the Lagoons in the ARC rally logged 80hrs of motor (13% of their race), but it was a race not a cruise and they finished that 25 day race a day behind the Outremer. How practical is that difference in the real world of cruising?

While the Bali line may fit that condomoran moniker, I reject it for Lagoon, Leopard, FP, and any other cat that can and does gracefully and safely take their sailors all over the world.
ARC is a beam reach and downwind trip. I don't know much about races but the from what I've read results of mixed / upwind races are not as good for the newer models of the big 3.

Design goals have simply changed over the last decade. Boats of similar length have become much more voluminous, with wider hulls, higher freeboard often accompanied with lower bridgedeck clearance, much more weight, smaller ineffcient sailplans with selftacking genoas and tiny mains, etc.
Comfortable for sure, but a significant design shift from previous generations. The success of the big 3 shows that this is what the market demands.
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