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Old 12-02-2016, 05:23   #181
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

Originally Posted by Southern Star
I love cruising, ... because:
.
.
Brad[/QUOTE]

Thank you Brad for an excellent summary of what Beckie and I love about cruising!!
SV Neko really nailed it recently on another thread as to why I chose my boat and how I like to sail it and you have absolutely nailed it for the lifestyle ....
Beckie and I continually look at each other and say we are so!! lucky to be able to experience it.

The only thing I might add to your summary is that I love fixing and re- engineering my boat which I am continually doing...

Bob
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Old 12-02-2016, 05:28   #182
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

Jim, I have zero bias against monohulls. I do have bias against trolls who are allowed to start and perpetuate demonstrably untrue threads such as "why do cats motor nearly 100% of the time?" Who are prepared to frighten off a potential catamaran owner with claims about the dangerousness of sliding doors on catamarans without being able to site cases to support that claim.

Like most owners of catamarans, I came to the breed rather late in my life and sailing career. My first keel boat was a Continental 25 fibergass folkboat. I loved and still love the look of that boat - sweeping sheer, spoon bow, teak coamings. I loved the way she could sail upwind - with proper sail balance/trim - in any conditions without touching the helm (perfectly balanced, she'd head up in the puffs and off in the lulls without a hand on the tiller). I can't imagine a catamaran doing the same - at least, I know mine can't. I loved my Bayfield 32C for her classic lines, shoal draft, anchoring platform etc. I also preferred the view from the helm on all of my monohulls (including my Cartwright 36 pilothouse cutter, which had a flush deck, low house and great visibility from either helm). I also preferred the 'feel' of sailing my monohulls to my cat - how changes in wind speed could be felt immediately at not only the helm, but by virtue of changes to the angle of heel.

If I were still planning on a circumnavigation via the Capes I would still own my steel Cartwright 36. Small cockpit with substantial drains, cutter rig, pilothouse, U shaped galley, Newfoundmetals tempered glass portlights, Atkins & Hoyle deck hatches, skeg mounted rudder, etc. So yes, while I am confident in the safety of my current boat for her intended use, my fear of capsize around the horn would be enough to push me back to well equipped and constructed monohull.

I have never gone on the monohull section of this site to make attacks on the breed. I love monohulls. Heck, I love trawlers, tugboats, classic boats, open 60's - you name it.
It is for precisely this reason that I tire of the incessant posts by certain owners of monohulls in the multihull section of this site, denigrating multihulls and espousing the superiority of their own type of craft for every reason except 'space'. So yes, I decided that perhaps it was time to fight fire with fire.

Brad
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Old 12-02-2016, 05:39   #183
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

Polux, you were the one who said that you would probably give up sailing if you had to sail a slow and sluggish boat. I assumed that meant you would also give up cruising...

I fully understand racers (including club racers with no real desire to do lengthy cruises) who share your sentiments - to them, the performance of their boat is almost everything. They too would probably give up sailing if they had to sail a slow and sluggish boat.

So apologies for assuming that you were a dedicated cruiser who loved the cruising life, regardless of the ultimate performance of his or her boat.

Brad
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Old 12-02-2016, 09:26   #184
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

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Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
Polux, you were the one who said that you would probably give up sailing if you had to sail a slow and sluggish boat. I assumed that meant you would also give up cruising...

I fully understand racers (including club racers with no real desire to do lengthy cruises) who share your sentiments - to them, the performance of their boat is almost everything. They too would probably give up sailing if they had to sail a slow and sluggish boat.

So apologies for assuming that you were a dedicated cruiser who loved the cruising life, regardless of the ultimate performance of his or her boat.

Brad
It is a bit better, at least you are not insulting me calling me frustrated but you continue to misunderstand and even quoting me wrongly. I did not said that I would given up cruising and I did not said i would give up sailing.

I like too much the two activities to give up at either of them. What I said was that if I had to cruise in a sluggish boat that would not give me pleasure sailing I would give up cruising on that sailboat to go cruising on my roadster that is a lot of fun to drive.

And that's because I cannot separate or I don't want to separate the pleasure of cruising with the pleasure to "drive" a rewarding vehicle being it a sailboat, a car or a motorcycle, one that gives a lot of pleasure to use and that puts a smile on my face while doing it.

In fact you can cruise with a boat, with a car or with a motorcycle and I have done it extensively using the three vehicles. The only difference is that with a boat you cruise on the sea, with a car on land.

I never said that I would stop sailing but that if I sailed a boat that was not fun and rewarding to sail, a sluggish boat, I would prefer to stop cruising on a sailboat and having a smaller and more rewarding sportive daysailer to have fun with it.

Again you are mixing racing with having pleasure while sailing or sailing on a rewarding sailboat. That has nothing to do, as I have explained to you before I am not a sailboat racer, I do not intend to race and I have a sportive car and a sportive sailiboat, none of them used for racing but to have pleasure while driving or sailing.

Like me there are many, with fast performance boats and with fast performance cars that do not use them for racing, just to have pleasure while sailing or while driving them.

It really seems that while I am quite capable to understand the motivations of the ones that prefer condo boats you seem to be unable to understand the motivations of the ones that have performance boats, that in most cases have nothing to do with racing but with having fun while sailing
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Old 12-02-2016, 10:27   #185
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
I have never gone on the monohull section of this site to make attacks on the breed. I love monohulls. Heck, I love trawlers, tugboats, classic boats, open 60's - you name it.
It is for precisely this reason that I tire of the incessant posts by certain owners of monohulls in the multihull section of this site, denigrating multihulls and espousing the superiority of their own type of craft for every reason except 'space'. So yes, I decided that perhaps it was time to fight fire with fire.
+1

Maybe its a CF problem and we should focus more on other multihull forums. One without monohullers, so they can't make every thread a mono vs. multi debate which only seems to exist in their own heads.
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Old 12-02-2016, 11:57   #186
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

Sorry Polux, I took your statement "I would give up probably sailing if I had to sail a slow and sluggish boat" to mean you would probably give up sailing (and cruising by sail, appropos of this site, as opposed to cruising in a car or motorcycle).

In any event, we have differing viewpoints about what is truly important about cruising on a sailboat.

Cheers!

Brad
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Old 12-02-2016, 12:20   #187
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

Trust me Rabbi, I have thought about it. And many multihullers have left this site for prcisely that reason (including one long-time member in the last week alone). He said that instead of wasting his energy taking the bait and responding to the endless series of inaccurate and inflammatory posts on catamarans, he'd rather do something useful -"like changing the air in my inflatable!"

I guess it comes down to deciding, what is the lesser of two evils? Losing the frustration of dealing with a small group of monohullers who invade multihull threads to denigrate our boats in spite of the lack of experience, or supporting evidence; or, losing what is otherwise a valuable resource.

Its funny, several years ago I sensed a growing mono/multi animosity and thought that I could perhaps smooth the waters by starting a couple of threads. I started one in the monohull section asking what monohullers like about multihulls. I started a thread in the multis section asking what they liked about monohulls. I hoped that it would cause people to set aside their bias and acknowledge that there are things we like (or God forbid, prefer) about the other type of boat. You guessed it, it went nowhere and received more spurious posts than serious ones.

I would also hate to let some people think that they have won by driving me off the site.

Brad
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Old 12-02-2016, 12:20   #188
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

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Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
Sorry Polux, I took your statement "I would give up probably sailing if I had to sail a slow and sluggish boat" to mean you would probably give up sailing (and cruising by sail, appropos of this site, as opposed to cruising in a car or motorcycle).

In any event, we have differing viewpoints about what is truly important about cruising on a sailboat.

Cheers!

Brad
Off course Brand and that's why we favor different types of cruising sailboats, being them monos or cats. And I would not say not only about what is truly important on a cruising sailboat, but also about the cruising versus sailing compromises in what regards sailing fun.

Saying all that I would say my wife would agree with you, but it is not her that sails the boat and have fun with it. Regarding my cruising sailboat the compromise is really with what she really considers a satisfactory minimum versus what I am willing to give up in what regards sailing fun and the money we have available for a sailboat.

For instance, some years ago she vetoed a Dragonfly 35 and that pretty muck exclude the possibility of having a fast trimaran since anything bigger, fast and fun,with a good finish, is prohibitively expensive for us.

In what concerns me my demands are much less than hers in what regards cruising comfort versus sailing fun but I cannot complain because she is really not very complicated about that.

That is what makes cruising boats so interesting, they are for all tastes and you can find on the market boats adapted to all sort of compromises and tastes.

I agree that condocats are the ones that offer a better compromise in what regards living like on a house, interior space and the possibility of moving around from one place to another in an economic way, being them sailing cats or motor cats.
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Old 12-02-2016, 12:24   #189
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

Yes, they provide more room. Its just too bad everything else about them is worse than a monohull!

Brad
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Old 12-02-2016, 13:16   #190
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

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Yes, they provide more room. Its just too bad everything else about them is worse than a monohull!

Brad
Maybe that is your opinion I don't think that way.

If I had the money for it this is certainly one of the boats I would like to own and I had said already that I was very interested on a Dragonfly that my wife found that did not have enough interior space and storage for her.

In fact it is the type of boat regarding to be fun and rewarding to sail that counts for me and not being a monohull or a multihull.

Certainly I would not have a sluggish boat being it monohull or multihull, but I would have a fun to sail cruiser, being it monohull or multihull, depending the choice of many factors, being cost the more determinant one.
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Old 12-02-2016, 14:35   #191
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

How many threads can beat this to death. It is whatever floats your boat, so to speak.

I am not sure if some folks just enjoy stone throwing. I see some, no names, that seem to speak like someone with a paper ******* and voice an opinion on something they know nothing about. I enjoy reading opinions of those people with an experienced opinion whether I agree or not. I may even learn something.
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Old 12-02-2016, 16:17   #192
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
I did not said that I would given up cruising and I did not said i would give up sailing.
...
I like too much the two activities to give up at either of them. What I said was that if I had to cruise in a sluggish boat that would not give me pleasure sailing I would give up cruising on that sailboat to go cruising on my roadster that is a lot of fun to drive.
...

Sigh! he's at it again:

"I would give up probably sailing if I had to sail some slow and sluggish boat"
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Old 13-02-2016, 07:18   #193
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Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

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Sigh! he's at it again:

"I would give up probably sailing if I had to sail some slow and sluggish boat"
I don't see where is the contradiction: Yes I would give up sailing if I had to sail a sluggish boat.

I explained on a posterior post that is not going to happen because I prefer to give up cruising with a boat if the only boat I can afford or have is a sluggish boat and I will have a much smaller and inexpensive rewarding and fun to sail day sailer to have pleasure sailing with it.

No sail pleasure at all for me while sailing a sluggish sailboat and I like even more sailing than cruising on a boat.

I thought that the posterior posts had made that very clear, but since you did not have understood here stays the clarification. I hope it is clear for you know.
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Old 13-02-2016, 07:25   #194
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pirate Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

I've heard Beneteau/Lagoon have got the 'Flying Hawaiian's' builder as their new designer..
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Old 13-02-2016, 07:31   #195
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pirate Re: The Evolution of "Condomarans"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
Jim, I have zero bias against monohulls. I do have bias against trolls who are allowed to start and perpetuate demonstrably untrue threads such as "why do cats motor nearly 100% of the time?" Who are prepared to frighten off a potential catamaran owner with claims about the dangerousness of sliding doors on catamarans without being able to site cases to support that claim.

Like most owners of catamarans, I came to the breed rather late in my life and sailing career. My first keel boat was a Continental 25 fibergass folkboat. I loved and still love the look of that boat - sweeping sheer, spoon bow, teak coamings. I loved the way she could sail upwind - with proper sail balance/trim - in any conditions without touching the helm (perfectly balanced, she'd head up in the puffs and off in the lulls without a hand on the tiller). I can't imagine a catamaran doing the same - at least, I know mine can't. I loved my Bayfield 32C for her classic lines, shoal draft, anchoring platform etc. I also preferred the view from the helm on all of my monohulls (including my Cartwright 36 pilothouse cutter, which had a flush deck, low house and great visibility from either helm). I also preferred the 'feel' of sailing my monohulls to my cat - how changes in wind speed could be felt immediately at not only the helm, but by virtue of changes to the angle of heel.

If I were still planning on a circumnavigation via the Capes I would still own my steel Cartwright 36. Small cockpit with substantial drains, cutter rig, pilothouse, U shaped galley, Newfoundmetals tempered glass portlights, Atkins & Hoyle deck hatches, skeg mounted rudder, etc. So yes, while I am confident in the safety of my current boat for her intended use, my fear of capsize around the horn would be enough to push me back to well equipped and constructed monohull.

I have never gone on the monohull section of this site to make attacks on the breed. I love monohulls. Heck, I love trawlers, tugboats, classic boats, open 60's - you name it.
It is for precisely this reason that I tire of the incessant posts by certain owners of monohulls in the multihull section of this site, denigrating multihulls and espousing the superiority of their own type of craft for every reason except 'space'. So yes, I decided that perhaps it was time to fight fire with fire.

Brad
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