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Old 10-03-2012, 20:15   #46
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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Originally Posted by deckofficer View Post
It is a real sled running downhill, and from Long Beach to Cabo was one fast sled run, hitting 16 kt a couple of times. Yes, it is a 50 year old race boat, and I matched the purchase cost of $16K with gen-set, solar, inverter, auto pilot, water maker, freezer, you get the idea. My taste then was old race boats, and if I had the scratch back then to have passed on the Cal 40 and buy a Santa Cruz 50 I would have. In hindsight though, I was very lucky even choosing the Cal 40 because it was my first off shore boat, and for the price and performance, I couldn't have done better.
Talk about 'thread drift"????

Why not start a thread regarding mono's?
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Old 10-03-2012, 20:22   #47
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

Can you hove to in a cat?
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Old 10-03-2012, 20:24   #48
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

thank you Lagoon4us. Now for us poor guys with the little budget, I am gathering that to be safe, I want wide beam, the wider the better on a Catamaran and I want lots of bridgedeck clearance. (and to be sure I understand what bridgedeck clearance is, I understand it to be the freeboard from the waterline to the underbelly deck - is this correct?)
And there seems to be a tiny bit of dispute as to whether the Gemini is durable and strong enough to be a safe vessel for bluewater cruising.
The Mahe 36 sure seems to be a better boat but carries a much better boat price. The Privilege, Prout and PDQ may be better with the PDQ seeming to be in the price range as a relatively late model Gemini. The difference I see is the PDQ is going to be a much older boat because they are no longer manufactured.
The disadvantages of a multihull seem to be pretty much what seemed obvious, extra haul out costs, greater expense for bottom painting, more hull to clean, etc.
Lots to consider, but still it seems the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.
There is something to be said about less heeling and more storage not to mention the increased living comfort and room.
Thanks to all that contributed worthy information, it is appreciated.
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Old 10-03-2012, 20:28   #49
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

Downside to cats, let me give this a try...I've owned both cats and monos and sailed a lot of each so this is not a bashing cats response. No particular order below.


- Increased slip/dry store fees vs mono.
- Fewer marinas which can accommodate you (depends a lot on venue)
- Fewer yards which can haul (fees in my experience are not significantly different)
- Two motors to maintain on most cats (but you also have two motors!)
- Other "redundant" systems to maintain (but again this has an upside too)
- Way more surface area to clean/wax.
- Motion can be more "irregular" than a mono in certain conditions (like beam seas)
- All that space encourages you to over load.
- More expensive purchase price (but more equitable comparison is to mono of about 10' more LOA)
- Increased insurance cost due to higher purchase price
- More difficult to secure (more hatches, often a large cockpit door)
- Large mainsail (I don't prefer the mainsail driven sail plan almost universally used on current cats for cruising purposes -- that big main can be a bear to handle sometimes)
- Less "sailing" sensation (this is not a bad thing on long runs, but not as exciting on a day sail either...my H33 is much more fun for that!).
- More cabins to outfit (more bedding to store aboard and clean)
- Typically more hatches/windows/port holes to maintain
- Bridge deck pounding (mono hulls of course pound too, but just not in the middle of your accommodation spaces)
- More room for guests (yes, this can be a downside if you don't really want them there!)
- More open deck space (this is a big upside for typical cruising, but can also feel a bit less secure in heavy weather)

All I can think of now...that said, cats are very hard to beat for typical coastal cruising (I think most cruisers way over use the term "bluewater").
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Old 10-03-2012, 20:29   #50
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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Originally Posted by Notpopeye View Post
after reading and studying, I believe that the theory of
get the smallest boat that will fit your needs' approach. Every extra foot of boat means greater maintenance cost, slip fees, marina fees, etc.
Notpopeye,

That is pretty much the idea! There is a saying out there somewhere that goes something like this -- "buy the boat for what you can do with it now, not what you plan to do with it in the future."

Who really knows what the future holds?

I dream(ed) about a 40'+ catamaran, but I would still be waiting and dreaming--and it would really be overkill for my present needs and cruising grounds, anyway!

But in the meantime, we have enjoyed our boat going on our fourth summer!

Basically, if you "over dream" you can get mired in indecision. Find a boat you can afford and USE now. If it leaves you wanting for more, than you can figure out the next step. If not, you can walk away having learned a lesson before getting in too deep!

And, by the way, we have never regretted purchasing a catamaran!

Try to find your way through the weeds of the single-minders, many who have never set foot on a catamaran let alone cruised on one!

Good luck.

BTW, belizesailor nailed it pretty good--especially the last paragraph!

Marshall
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Old 10-03-2012, 22:21   #51
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

Great reading folks. Am in Queensland Australia and been talked into looking at cats 35-40ft for cruising and blue water. With 2 couples and a dog, seems the best bet, though I prefer caves (monohulls lol). The ability to careen on mudflats here in Oz seems ideal (outgoing tides kilometer+ up nth.)for maintanance. My partner is a Texan and wants to visit Florida (God help us and all who sail) Looking at a 1996 Tasman Elite 43' cruising Cat at AUD$249.950 GRP with twin Volvo Penta, 30hp Saildrive.
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Old 10-03-2012, 22:28   #52
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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Originally Posted by Ontos45 View Post
Great reading folks. Am in Queensland Australia and been talked into looking at cats 35-40ft for cruising and blue water. With 2 couples and a dog, seems the best bet, though I prefer caves (monohulls lol). The ability to careen on mudflats here in Oz seems ideal (outgoing tides kilometer+ up nth.)for maintanance. My partner is a Texan and wants to visit Florida (God help us and all who sail) Looking at a 1996 Tasman Elite 43' cruising Cat at AUD$249.950 GRP with twin Volvo Penta, 30hp Saildrive.
Why??

Florida is hot, crowded, expensive, full of old people and has hurricanes. If she/he is from Texas they should already know this.
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Old 10-03-2012, 23:05   #53
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

The rule for boats is the same as women - don't look for perfection, but one with the faults you can live with!

I have had several cats and tris after my first monohull a sigma 36 cruiser racer. I now have an Outremer 45 catamaran, and we race in the Scottish Islands Peaks Race, which is the ultimate test of a fast cruiser.
The Scottish Islands Peaks Race



If you look at these videos you will see how stable we are at 16kts, and we are only beaten by jboats when we are light airs upwind. we only slam under motor or with wash.

We won this event in 45kt winds round a fierce tidal headland called the Mull of Kintyre, and I am sure that this would test any boat. Contessa 32s are renowned sea boats and one retired on this race as well as another who had to carry on (read the story in his amusing blog http://homepages.ed.ac.uk/jjarvis/running/SIPR2009/)

Anyway to answer the question, the right catamaran is just as seaworthy as the right monohull; the points of vulnerability are just different. As with cars the usual problems not the vehicle but the connection between the controls and the seat.

The designer and builder of the gemini did sail it across the Atlantic, I think to prove a point, but it is not ideal for this.

If you want seaworthiness you need beam, narrow hulls, bridge deck clearance and length. In my book for offshore work, the gemini has too many compromises; if coastal passages and the odd overnight sail, it should be perfect; if you are set on this design, and do want to go offshore, it is capable, but you need to be aware of her limitations.

Good luck
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Old 10-03-2012, 23:10   #54
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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Notpopeye,

... I just don't like to lean, ...
If it isn't leaning, it isn't sailing.

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Old 10-03-2012, 23:14   #55
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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If it isn't leaning, it isn't sailing.

I got one. "If it isn't doing over 10 knots it isn't sailing" It's drifting. hahaha. This applies to both kinds.
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Old 10-03-2012, 23:23   #56
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

This is my hope, PDQ 36 owners please chime in. If I can shorten sail during snooze time and still get 160 nm days vs the 230 nm days in the Cal 40, I would be a very happy camper, because when on the hook I want to be on a cat.

Come on PDQ, Seawind 1000XL owners, are safe short handed (in my case single handed) daily runs of 160 nm in your log books?
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Old 11-03-2012, 00:48   #57
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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Originally Posted by deckofficer View Post
This is my hope, PDQ 36 owners please chime in. If I can shorten sail during snooze time and still get 160 nm days vs the 230 nm days in the Cal 40, I would be a very happy camper, because when on the hook I want to be on a cat.

Come on PDQ, Seawind 1000XL owners, are safe short handed (in my case single handed) daily runs of 160 nm in your log books?
Highway or ocean?
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:24   #58
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

Quote:
Originally Posted by bairdag View Post
The rule for boats is the same as women - don't look for perfection, but one with the faults you can live with!

I have had several cats and tris after my first monohull a sigma 36 cruiser racer. I now have an Outremer 45 catamaran, and we race in the Scottish Islands Peaks Race, which is the ultimate test of a fast cruiser.
The Scottish Islands Peaks Race



If you look at these videos you will see how stable we are at 16kts, and we are only beaten by jboats when we are light airs upwind. we only slam under motor or with wash.

We won this event in 45kt winds round a fierce tidal headland called the Mull of Kintyre, and I am sure that this would test any boat. Contessa 32s are renowned sea boats and one retired on this race as well as another who had to carry on (read the story in his amusing blog http://homepages.ed.ac.uk/jjarvis/running/SIPR2009/)

Anyway to answer the question, the right catamaran is just as seaworthy as the right monohull; the points of vulnerability are just different. As with cars the usual problems not the vehicle but the connection between the controls and the seat.

The designer and builder of the gemini did sail it across the Atlantic, I think to prove a point, but it is not ideal for this.

If you want seaworthiness you need beam, narrow hulls, bridge deck clearance and length. In my book for offshore work, the gemini has too many compromises; if coastal passages and the odd overnight sail, it should be perfect; if you are set on this design, and do want to go offshore, it is capable, but you need to be aware of her limitations.

Good luck
Wow that is impressive. Can you remember what sort of apparent wind angle you were at in the 2nd video? That jib seems to work well!!
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:46   #59
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

Quote:
Originally Posted by terminalcitygrl View Post
Can you hove to in a cat?
Yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ontos45 View Post
Great reading folks. Am in Queensland Australia and been talked into looking at cats 35-40ft for cruising and blue water. With 2 couples and a dog, seems the best bet, though I prefer caves (monohulls lol). The ability to careen on mudflats here in Oz seems ideal (outgoing tides kilometer+ up nth.)for maintanance. My partner is a Texan and wants to visit Florida (God help us and all who sail) Looking at a 1996 Tasman Elite 43' cruising Cat at AUD$249.950 GRP with twin Volvo Penta, 30hp Saildrive.
There are cheaper Elites around and some in very good nick, saw one in Melbourne a while back that was pretty good for under $200K

Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
If it isn't leaning, it isn't sailing.
What an intensely silly thing to say. And this from a motor boater.

But I'm with the guys that say buy a sundeer. On Nick's figures he would have easily been top three in this years Sydney to Hobart against boats 20 and 30 times the cost. And all this on a self tending boat that you leave and go and sleep.

On a serious note - I give this thread about another two days before it gets locked.
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:15   #60
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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NotPopye. I don't think anybodt has 4' bd clearence. The rule is 1" per foot of beam, wider boats need more. 39" for a Gemini is hard to beleive. Where'd you get that?
probably at the bow
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