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Old 10-03-2012, 18:40   #31
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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Originally Posted by Notpopeye View Post
The manufacturer sent me a brochure which lists the bridgedeck clearance (at the bow) at 39 inches.
The displacement is 9800 lbs and the beam is 14 feet.

I have read that a bridgedeck clearance of between 2 1/2 and 4 feet is good so 39 inches surely must be adequate. And while the displacement is light, this 9800 is without fuel, water, stores, etc.
The 39 inch bridgedeck clearance is perfect. Its the 6 inchs at midship that tends to give a bit of slap at anchor in strong wind.
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Old 10-03-2012, 18:41   #32
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

NotPopye. I don't think anybodt has 4' bd clearence. The rule is 1" per foot of beam, wider boats need more. 39" for a Gemini is hard to beleive. Where'd you get that?
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Old 10-03-2012, 18:43   #33
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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BAD GUESS - two up the Sundeer would be days faster as a monohull is self tending so you can just let the boat look after you in the heavy weather - with your 64 foot cat you would need to be totally on the ball 24/7 or just like that big Atlantic cat you woudl be upside down in a flash. With a switched-on on four / six person racing crew i am sure the cat would be faster BUT hardly more comfortable in fact at speed could be physically painfully uncomfortable.
OK, now things are getting interesting. I agree that for a more relaxed passage, the fact a mono will de-power on its own makes bunk time less stressful, and this is what I tried to say in my first post, for a passage to be fast and comfortable short handed, the mono has it in spades. If there is such a thing as an "average" cruiser, then maybe 15% of the time is passage making, while the other 85% is grooving on the hook, and that is where the cat is a comfortable choice. A mono can't give you more room or less rolling at anchor. But a cat, if sailed conservatively on a passage (shortened sail), not as fast, but still safe and will get you there at some time frame behind the mono. Once there for that 85% typical time frame, I'll take the cat.
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Old 10-03-2012, 18:45   #34
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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NotPopye. I don't think anybodt has 4' bd clearence. The rule is 1" per foot of beam, wider boats need more. 39" for a Gemini is hard to beleive. Where'd you get that?
The manufacturer's brochure for the Gemini 105Mc lists 39 inches but qualifies by stating "at the bow".
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Old 10-03-2012, 18:48   #35
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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The best boat option is the one that fits your budget. Then you can enjoy your life on your boat and afford to maintain it. I have a 46' cat my close friend has a 32' Bristol. He lives off his boat and teaches sailing. Sails every other day. me? Pretty much summer only and when it's warm. His boat $30,000 mine $700,000. Who is having more fun?????

...exactly...it's all realative. It's not a matter of one better than the other. It's more what makes sense.
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Old 10-03-2012, 19:01   #36
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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Read Gregor Tarjans book. He's writes a few times about smoking every mono out there on his Outies. Yes, he's a dealer. One great writeup is about him starting days late in the ARC and passing almost every boat at the end. He talks about one Atlantic delivery in really rough conditions and just cruising along on auto pilot with wine on the table. There are pics in the book of that one. Sundeer is a great boat but my money's on the Outie 64 or 55, Gunboat 66 or 62, Atlantic 55/57 etc. Damn more comfortable too. I posted this before.
Yes those multis are pretty much as good as it gets for a great preforming multi. Keep in mind at 55-60' you have a great advantage easily averaging 220 nm a day and often hitting close to 300nm on finer days. Where a cruising 40' mono would be in around 130nm 160nm on a good day. Got to fork out the dough though. 4x more expensive! We can dream though right?
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Old 10-03-2012, 19:03   #37
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You just might be right. Also Seawind 1000XL is on my short list. Too bad we can't do as the golfers, pull out the club best suited. Outremer 64 for lats of 0~40, Sundeer for lats >40.

How do you like your Seawind's overall performance?
The Seawind 1000xl performs very well. Not a race boat but a really good turn of speed.
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Old 10-03-2012, 19:07   #38
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Originally Posted by Highland Fling

BAD GUESS - two up the Sundeer would be days faster as a monohull is self tending so you can just let the boat look after you in the heavy weather - with your 64 foot cat you would need to be totally on the ball 24/7 or just like that big Atlantic cat you woudl be upside down in a flash. With a switched-on on four / six person racing crew i am sure the cat would be faster BUT hardly more comfortable in fact at speed could be physically painfully uncomfortable.
I don't agree at all.
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Old 10-03-2012, 19:18   #39
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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Yes those multis are pretty much as good as it gets for a great preforming multi. Keep in mind at 55-60' you have a great advantage easily averaging 220 nm a day and often hitting close to 300nm on finer days. Where a cruising 40' mono would be in around 130nm 160nm on a good day. Got to fork out the dough though. 4x more expensive! We can dream though right?
Whoops, I think I might disagree on the 130~160nm a day runs for a 40 footer. Are you forgetting Stan Honey won the Transpac back in the mid 90's on a 20 year old Cal 40? I sailed my Cal 40 from Long Beach to Mulege non-stop 151 1/2 hours, and that, Mike w, is laying down 230 nm days average.
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Old 10-03-2012, 19:23   #40
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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Originally Posted by Highland Fling View Post
BAD GUESS - two up the Sundeer would be days faster as a monohull is self tending so you can just let the boat look after you in the heavy weather - with your 64 foot cat you would need to be totally on the ball 24/7 or just like that big Atlantic cat you woudl be upside down in a flash. With a switched-on on four / six person racing crew i am sure the cat would be faster BUT hardly more comfortable in fact at speed could be physically painfully uncomfortable.
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Old 10-03-2012, 19:29   #41
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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Whoops, I think I might disagree on the 130~160nm a day runs for a 40 footer. Are you forgetting Stan Honey won the Transpac back in the mid 90's on a 20 year old Cal 40? I sailed my Cal 40 from Long Beach to Mulege non-stop 151 1/2 hours, and that, Mike w, is laying down 230 nm days average.
Impressive. What top speeds? Is this design a racing boat? All the cruiser monos here are lucky if they ever see 9 knots. Most in the 6-7 knot range. But these are cruise boats not racers. Sounds like a great all around boat this Cal 40.
My 46' Cat I am seeing maybe 170nm a day 8-9 knots are average.
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Old 10-03-2012, 19:39   #42
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

Cost, cleaning, antifoulx2 hulls.
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Old 10-03-2012, 19:41   #43
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

Notpopeye,

The main downside to cat ownership to my mind is initial cost. They are just more expensive. For example, for the price of a Gemini you could pick up a Macregor 65.

1984 Macgregor 65 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

It's enough to give one pause.

However, after having sailed a cat for the past couple years I wouldn't go back. I just don't like to lean, and feel that a cat is much safer. Also, while a Mac 65 or Santa Cruz 50 is going to be faster per dollar than a similarly priced cat, the upkeep will be higher. Price rigging and engine parts for a 65 footer to see what I mean. In the end you have to evaluate what your plans are and what you want out of a boat. For a world cruiser? Mac 65, hands down. For coastal cruising and affordable upkeep? I'd lean (figuratively) toward the Gemini.
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Old 10-03-2012, 19:56   #44
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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Impressive. What top speeds? Is this design a racing boat? All the cruiser monos here are lucky if they ever see 9 knots. Most in the 6-7 knot range. But these are cruise boats not racers. Sounds like a great all around boat this Cal 40.
My 46' Cat I am seeing maybe 170nm a day 8-9 knots are average.
It is a real sled running downhill, and from Long Beach to Cabo was one fast sled run, hitting 16 kt a couple of times. Yes, it is a 50 year old race boat, and I matched the purchase cost of $16K with gen-set, solar, inverter, auto pilot, water maker, freezer, you get the idea. My taste then was old race boats, and if I had the scratch back then to have passed on the Cal 40 and buy a Santa Cruz 50 I would have. In hindsight though, I was very lucky even choosing the Cal 40 because it was my first off shore boat, and for the price and performance, I couldn't have done better.
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Old 10-03-2012, 20:01   #45
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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Notpopeye,

The main downside to cat ownership to my mind is initial cost. They are just more expensive. For example, for the price of a Gemini you could pick up a Macregor 65.

It's enough to give one pause.

However, after having sailed a cat for the past couple years I wouldn't go back. I just don't like to lean, and feel that a cat is much safer. Also, while a Mac 65 or Santa Cruz 50 is going to be faster per dollar than a similarly priced cat, the upkeep will be higher. Price rigging and engine parts for a 65 footer to see what I mean. In the end you have to evaluate what your plans are and what you want out of a boat. For a world cruiser? Mac 65, hands down. For coastal cruising and affordable upkeep? I'd lean (figuratively) toward the Gemini.
after reading and studying, I believe that the theory of
get the smallest boat that will fit your needs' approach. Every extra foot of boat means greater maintenance cost, slip fees, marina fees, etc.
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