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Old 13-03-2012, 23:07   #301
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
I wont get into brands, as in some cases NDA's were signed (by my boss not me but same difference). I freely admit that I haven't commissioned a cat in a couple of years, and the only major structural failure I have seen on a cat that wasn't due to an impact in that time was a custom 90 ft. powercat. It was a big job to properly stiffen, but doesn't really count as it was one-off. However, techniques haven't changed much in the last two years. And the vast majority of cats out there are older than two years, certainly all the ones I can afford. As my personal identity is not protected at all on this forum, and I don't want myself or my employer to get sued, all I will say as to manufacterer is that there is a clear correlation between volume of production and quality of build. In otherwords the biggest builders are the worst offenders. This obviously has a lot to do with price points. But I have also seen some examples of problems in very large high end cats which cost millions. The problem is that building a cat well is actually very complex, while building a mono well is easy. Cat construction in large fiberglass boats can be subjected to astronomical loads which just dont happen in a monohull. This leads to greater challenges in design and construction. This in turn leads to a higher rate of failure. It's simple really. Build something bleeding edge and it will fail.
And no, I don't have a chip on my shoulder about cats. I think they are really cool, and would probably like sailing a big one as much as the next guy. I just happen to also be the guy who fixes broken boats. I've seen lots of broken monos and cats, and I'd much rather fix the mono because I know it will stay that way instead of stress cracking through the glass repeatedly because the laminate is too light for the forces involved and it keeps overflexing. If I was going to own a cat, I'd build it myself and it would cost millions of dollars. I don't have millions of dollars, hence I own a mono and love it.

Actually I have found the opposite to be true ... some of the biggest builders build the best cats for the simple reason that staff are trained and accustomed to the build ... repetitive process etc. Obviously the more units built, the beter and one wants to buy when all the initial issues have been 'ironed out' in the earlier models. My experience is that the bigger builders build good boats but build at speed and neglect the details of 'finishing off' a vessel, so warranty issues are generally not around major structural concerns but rather around smaller technical issues. Well, that has been my experience anyway ... perhaps I should run this past my cousin at Just Catamarans in Florida! You dont seem to be able to quote examples here ...
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Old 13-03-2012, 23:11   #302
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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Originally Posted by Ontos45 View Post
Thank you!
Realise I am only a "newbie" here BUT I joined this thread to learn about buying a used catamaran, the pros and cons to look for in evaluating them and that is MY choice.
If you care to look at an Atlas of Oz, I live on the Capricorn Coast, the East side of Queensland. I can look out onto the islands of the Great Barrier Reef. My luck.
Owing to finances Sue and I are buying with another couple, life-long friends, so the consensus of opinion is a cat because of the room and comfort. We can island hop to Malaysia then down to the Philippines with only short blue water crossing, if we wish.
The opinion of the various ship wrights on here is "very well received" by me and I think others, as is the best advise where to buy from others.
I have sailed mono hulls before and am in NO WAY denigrating them in my choice of vessel.
This forum is reminding me of another I belong to, the eternal discussion of which is best between caravans and motorhomes...lol
Please, all constructive help will be very appreciated in MY choice of vessel.
Peter and Sue
Good luck Peter & Sue

We certainly appreciate your position, having been there ourselves (including OZ based) for ~4 years of searching. Whilst you should by all means extract whatever information you can from any sources available to you, we will only suggest that, as regards this thread, don't automatically assume that being 'a shipwright' means this is an absolutely reliable source FOR YOUR PURPOSES! We'll admit our bias in that we now own a production cat, but we will also say that anyone who suggests modern production cats are not seaworthy is, frankly, feeding you crap. Threre are many here (us included) who have logged many miles, including in seriously rough conditions, in safety on modern production cats. If you're intending to cruise -- We do not race. So we niether contribute nor even care about all the race results discussions -- and you want to cruise safely and in real comfort, then you should certainly not rule out production cats.

As for the OP's challenge, there are plenty of real con's already noted in this thread, even though some (including a shipwright!) feel that the expressed cons are somehow just window-dressing by self-interested multihullers. Whatever. The con's are there for you to read and contemplate, but lack of real 'blue water' seaworthiness should NOT be one of them.

We wish you success in your search. Our best tips from our experience would be (1) TAKE YOUR TIME and (2) sail on as many different boats as you can!
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Old 13-03-2012, 23:18   #303
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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Originally Posted by Notpopeye View Post
Before you accuse me of being offtrack, I suggest you read the article one of the posters so graciously provided.
Multihull Design Considerations for Seaworthiness
Also, perhaps you should read my post again and see that I was on point. I was asking questions relative to seaworthiness which I absolutely would present as a possible pro or con of a multihull vessel. If factors I am not aware of present the multihull as less seaworthy than what is considered a bluewater seaworthy monohull, I would appreciate being made aware of it.
Thanks Notpopeye....that link was constructive
Peter an Sue
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Old 13-03-2012, 23:19   #304
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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Originally Posted by impi View Post
I am a red head and have a catamaran ... beat that!
Are you a Male or female Red head, Hahahahaha
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Old 13-03-2012, 23:34   #305
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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Originally Posted by D&D View Post
Good luck Peter & Sue

We certainly appreciate your position, having been there ourselves (including OZ based) for ~4 years of searching. Whilst you should by all means extract whatever information you can from any sources available to you, we will only suggest that, as regards this thread, don't automatically assume that being 'a shipwright' means this is an absolutely reliable source FOR YOUR PURPOSES! We'll admit our bias in that we now own a production cat, but we will also say that anyone who suggests modern production cats are not seaworthy is, frankly, feeding you crap. There are many here (us included) who have logged many miles, including in seriously rough conditions, in safety on modern production cats. If you're intending to cruise -- We do not race. So we neither contribute nor even care about all the race results discussions -- and you want to cruise safely and in real comfort, then you should certainly not rule out production cats.

As for the OP's challenge, there are plenty of real con's already noted in this thread, even though some (including a shipwright!) feel that the expressed cons are somehow just window-dressing by self-interested multihullers. Whatever. The con's are there for you to read and contemplate, but lack of real 'blue water' seaworthiness should NOT be one of them.

We wish you success in your search. Our best tips from our experience would be (1) TAKE YOUR TIME and (2) sail on as many different boats as you can!
Thank you D&D for your advice.
We have no interest in racing at our ages (50-70) but only a safe, enjoyable passage, seeing the wonderfull world that sailing opens up.
We are presently looking at a used 1996 Adams 43, but single head putting us off. Sue sold on the layout of the Leopard 38/39 but told her..more tickets in Tats ...lol
Peter and Sue
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Old 13-03-2012, 23:57   #306
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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Originally Posted by Ontos45 View Post
Thank you D&D for your advice.
We have no interest in racing at our ages (50-70) but only a safe, enjoyable passage, seeing the wonderfull world that sailing opens up.
We are presently looking at a used 1996 Adams 43, but single head putting us off. Sue sold on the layout of the Leopard 38/39 but told her..more tickets in Tats ...lol
Peter and Sue

LOL...the single head thing was an amusing part of our early search efforts. At a time when we were looking at 7-9m power boats for weekend outings (much to my sadness as I LOVE sailing, but we needed shallow draft for the protected waters around our home in Yamba) the Admiral advised that it was to be two heads...or nothing! I replied that two heads meant lots more $'s, but I also realised that there were huge advantages to two heads...and thus began our journey upward in waterline, hull numbers and budget, ending up with 2 hulls, 3 heads and 13.7m waterline, but much to my (and now our combined) delight as we can now enjoy both the protected shallow waters around our home PLUS really anywhere else we want to go!!
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Old 13-03-2012, 23:57   #307
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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Are you a Male or female Red head, Hahahahaha
Whichever you'd like me to be
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Old 14-03-2012, 00:00   #308
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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Originally Posted by D&D View Post
LOL...the single head thing was an amusing part of our early search efforts. At a time when we were looking at 7-9m power boats for weekend outings (much to my sadness as I LOVE sailing, but we needed shallow draft for the protected waters around our home in Yamba) the Admiral advised that it was to be two heads...or nothing! I replied that two heads meant lots more $'s, but I also realised that there were huge advantages to two heads...and thus began our journey upward in waterline, hull numbers and budget, ending up with 2 hulls, 3 heads and 13.7m waterline, but much to my (and now our combined) delight as we can now enjoy both the protected shallow waters around our home PLUS really anywhere else we want to go!!
Our experience EXACTLY !
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Old 14-03-2012, 00:12   #309
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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Originally Posted by cat man do View Post


Vs





And the cat beat it you say?
By almost 7 hours as well?
Just browsing through the results, looking for perhaps a more cruise oriented representation, (there being no class for cruising cats) I notice that Breakaway VI, a Perry 43, (a HEAVY production cruising cat) had an elapsed time of 79.17 hours, whereas the fastest of the cruising mono's was 88.22. It was also faster than Raucous, a 36 foot IRC raceboat.
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Old 14-03-2012, 00:19   #310
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ontos45 View Post
Thank you!
Realise I am only a "newbie" here BUT I joined this thread to learn about buying a used catamaran, the pros and cons to look for in evaluating them and that is MY choice.
If you care to look at an Atlas of Oz, I live on the Capricorn Coast, the East side of Queensland. I can look out onto the islands of the Great Barrier Reef. My luck.
Owing to finances Sue and I are buying with another couple, life-long friends, so the consensus of opinion is a cat because of the room and comfort. We can island hop to Malaysia then down to the Philippines with only short blue water crossing, if we wish.
The opinion of the various ship wrights on here is "very well received" by me and I think others, as is the best advise where to buy from others.
I have sailed mono hulls before and am in NO WAY denigrating them in my choice of vessel.
This forum is reminding me of another I belong to, the eternal discussion of which is best between caravans and motorhomes...lol
Please, all constructive help will be very appreciated in MY choice of vessel.
Peter and Sue

Awesome...

You live in the perfect country to see many excellent multihull designs, and your very lucky, you have very few " mass production" multihulls except for perhaps Seawind. So you must be already reading the local multihull magazine produced there, excellent real stories there, its been around for years and years. Its free in the library if you like. You must know about the MYCQ its been around for ever. You have so many resources at your finger tips, you may not know it.
You should know who, Grainger Designs are performance focused industry leaders in the design of multihull yachts since 1986, for a broad range of sailing catamarans and trimarans for racing, cruising, and charter work Tony Grainger is, you should know who Schionning Designs - their right there in your country. You should know who L.Crowther was. These are good places too start.

Austraila has always had a very good and diversified multihull fraternity, with lots of history. You really do not need to look beyond your own country, and they actually do sail all their boats, a lot, your lucky to live right where you are, just look around.

And at the end of the cruising season, aka the beginning of the cyclone season, head down to the Moreton bay boat club area, and watch the cruising boats roll in one after another to clear customs from Vanuatu, Fiji, New Caledonia, W.Samoa, etc etc,almost every one of them may have started in Mexico and have come a long way, and will be happy to share their real actual hands-on ocean sailing experience over a cold one.
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Old 14-03-2012, 00:35   #311
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

Hey Peter and Sue, your comment regarding an Adam's 43 pricked my ears somewhat, i've hand built many round bilge Adams designs in steel and aluminium, our own Adams 35 Deja Vu we built in steel, it's finish was stunning, when i sailed that yacht it talked to me i could feel her every movement.
She was renamed Scaffie and was sailed by David Beard around Australia non stop singlehanded. This earn't David a place in the Guiness Book of Records, upon completion of the circumnavigation (also awarded the Sir Alec Rose Award) David came back to my home town and personally thanked me for the honest/strong build.
Joe's designs were simple and very seaworthy.
Since then i've built and sailed 35's 36's 45's of Joes. They are great boats his 'Metre boat' class were very very quick, 'Fanny Adams' one of the quickies!
Helsal was another aussie success for Joe.
In our retirement we chose to buy (next month) a Lagoon 440. Why? because as a cruising boat the cons are very small if the boat is used as a cruiser.
D&D,Boatman,Sandcrab, Impi etc etc will give you advice from experience along with many others on this site.
Sadly a con with owning a Multihull (not just a cat) is the dumb opinions of argumentative people that have simply an argument to start, no other reason, just an argument...

Cheers best wishes Frank & Vivien
I'm sure you two will weed out the chaff from the seaweed...
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Old 14-03-2012, 00:56   #312
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

Sadly, as my crystal ball predicted, this thread became for too much work for our cleaners.

Before I close this thread, I'd like to remind members of this rule:

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Personal attacks on others will not be tolerated. Challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully. Excessive sarcasm, belligerence, insults, profanity, anger, offensive comments about race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, and national origin, are not acceptable.
Since I am depriving you of the fun of fighting over catamarans, perhaps you could use the valuable moments I have saved you to have another look at the rules. The link is at the top of this page
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Old 14-03-2012, 01:09   #313
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

As a daydreaming cruiser with no boat and zero experience, these are my favorite threads
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Old 14-03-2012, 01:14   #314
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

WOW I thought we had been censored just when the discussion was calming and some sense applied???
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Old 14-03-2012, 03:40   #315
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

On the 11th at 1846 my time I said I would give the thread two more days till it spiralled downward. 2 days and 22hrs later saucy says is closing, I reckon thats a pretty good guess.
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