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Old 13-03-2012, 01:34   #211
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Someone explain why many mulltihullers are so defensive and are the first to propose their boats are superior.

I wonder if the OP was asking whether there are "cons" to multihulls was because of perceived gloating of multihullers.
Is it defensive to not be happy to tolerate absolute uninformed rubbish?

If people WHO HAVE ACTUALLY SAILED ON A MULTIHULL want to list the features of that boat that they didn't like, fine. And in fact it has happened in this very thread.

But why do people who have never sailed on a multihull feel compelled to offer their opinions as if they were facts?

Gloating? Yeah I do sometimes gloat. When I pass a monohull sailing to windward, by sailing faster and higher than them, I admit - I gloat! I smile and wave, and sometimes I'm really tempted to say something. And the reason for that is because it is so often stated as an absolute fact (once again by people who have no experience) that NO CAT could EVER outsail a mono going to windward.
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Old 13-03-2012, 01:38   #212
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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I get the same thing from monos AND multis for owning-gasp!-a motorsailor. And god forbid it has in mast furling as well. Some of us are much more worried about a solid comfortable build that will get us there safely without breaking than we are about a few knots more speed. Apparently that's not "real" cruising either. Though I think just the opposite myself. I don't get all the "mine is better than yours" that goes on in these threads-all boats are different for different needs. The multi types definitely seem to be the most egregious committers of that sin. At least half the multihullers on this thread couldn't think of a single real con, despite the fact that every boat is a compromise. Too much bluster and bs.
To stay on topic, while I don't have experience sailing large cats, I have repaired countless, including commissioning new boats shipped into the US by major manufacturers elsewhere. My opinion is that the pursuit of light weight and speed has resulted in multis which are prone to structural failure. I have done major structural repairs on brand new boats in commission because they were experiencing too many structural failures. I've ground into more than enough of these boats to see how they're built and how they fail. When cats break its a big deal. I've had to reinforce amas, add stringers to bridge decks, etc etc. They're getting better as the tech progresses, but I've seen too many scary problems to consider owning one myself. At least not for the long term voyaging I'm planning. I want something I can beat the help out of and have it not notice, not something delicate fragile and fast. Pickup not lamborghini. It's better if you're going offroad.
Got to love this post! To paraphrase:

"I don't get all this 'Mine is better than your's'......

Oh, and by the way, mine is better than yours"!
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Old 13-03-2012, 01:43   #213
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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Yes, what were his true motives?
I have to disagree with you re:gloating, superiority et al. Multihullers are no different to monohullers we are all cruisers, racers or just owners.

Like monohullers we spend , what is to us a lifetime of earnings on our boat/boats of choice.

From a simple posting comes criticism, abuse and downright 'out of order' comments from all sides.

On this forum there are the wannabees, armchair sailors, arguers, beginners, owners, builders etc etc all with their own agenda, pride etc.

I cannot recall a mono-huller asking a question only to be inundated with caustic comment from multi-hullers looking for a blue.

It seems to me to be quite sadly biassed the other way, to the point that 30 to 40% of any multi-hull posting becomes a ****-fight due to rubbish points of view largely made by people with NO Multi experience.

Just my thoughts. What are yours honestly?
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Old 13-03-2012, 01:54   #214
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

Another thread has reminded me of another negative - helm positions. They can be difficult to get right, and opinions vary wildly as to exactly what IS right.

I'm happy with mine, feel they are a good compromise between shelter and vision, but have no doubt others will disagree.
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Old 13-03-2012, 02:00   #215
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Another thread has reminded me of another negative - helm positions. They can be difficult to get right, and opinions vary wildly as to exactly what IS right.

I'm happy with mine, feel they are a good compromise between shelter and vision, but have no doubt others will disagree.
What design is your boat?

Those french cats beg in some cases to be retro-fitted with a better helm position, if the purchase price was low enough i'd consider it because other than that to me i don't mind them, seems to be more gung-ho race orientated than user/cruiser friendly....
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Old 13-03-2012, 08:21   #216
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

We seem to be shifting around a bit here. I, like a few others, are interested in learning all there is to being a new cat owner before forking out heaps of money. I have chosen to look at buying a cat for its beam and ability to cruise vertically instead of horizontal. I am 66 and had my younger days on racing/cruising mono hulls and now want to sail without spilling too much of my beer.
As far as apples to apples, I seem to remember that an old Bark, an ex Collier built to carry coal up and down the English channel was brought by the British Admiralty cheap, was re-named the Endeavour and sailed arround the world twice discovering Oz on the way. Point being: if a vessel is sailed to its capabilities with a good Captain and crew, apples can become oranges.
Sue and I am now looking at maybe looking overseas for a used 36-40ft cat, as I am informed the we save 15% on duty untill it enters Oz waters then assessed at its then worth and taxed a such. Maybe an Ozzy reader can confirm this.
Peter and Sue
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Old 13-03-2012, 08:29   #217
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Someone explain why many mulltihullers are so defensive and are the first to propose their boats are superior.

I wonder if the OP was asking whether there are "cons" to multihulls was because of perceived gloating of multihullers.
Actually, my question was so someone could point out what I am missing. Admittedly, I have little to no knowledge of multihulls and have only started researching the boats.
However, even after a short time, the advantages are many. Maybe the sailer with the anchor tattoo would rather heel at 45 degrees and enjoy knock-downs, capsizes and small living quarters but for whatever reason, sailing at a 15 degree heel in a boat pretty much capsize safe with roomy, comfortable living quarters is appealing.
I will further admit, the glamour and esteem one gains in sailing in a beautiful mono is attractive. Who is not caught up in the romance of Joshua Slocum's Spray? But, most of us admire the romance while realizing comfort and safety take precedence.

I do not think Multihullers are defensive, I believe they are convinced they have the best vessel (for them) and are not shy in stating the reasons that support their opinion. Trust me, monohull owners are just as adamant about their choice of vessel.
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Old 13-03-2012, 08:29   #218
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

Further to last post, Sue holds duel nationality, Oz/US, would that help in buyinga boat in USA?
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Old 13-03-2012, 08:37   #219
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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We have to get it out of our head, to carry around a big piece of lead is counterintuitive.
There was a cat here in Beaufort last year or so called, "Unleaded." Not exactly poetic but apt nontheless.

I built and sailed a small Wharram all over the GOM and keys. If I had time, I'd build another. The biggest cons for me are the costs and the non-traditional looks of these big production cats. There are some cats and tris that look great but they are not the boats we're discussing here. Me, I like both redheads and blondes although it seems that brunettes weather the best of all. Like another poster noted, there will be a bunch of these barge-like cats for sale cheap if the economy really tanks.
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Old 13-03-2012, 08:52   #220
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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Like another poster noted, there will be a bunch of these barge-like cats for sale cheap if the economy really tanks.
Where have you been for the last few years ? Are you saying the economy has been great?

WOW
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Old 13-03-2012, 08:58   #221
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Another thread has reminded me of another negative - helm positions. They can be difficult to get right, and opinions vary wildly as to exactly what IS right.

I'm happy with mine, feel they are a good compromise between shelter and vision, but have no doubt others will disagree.

No doubt, your cat is a really nice one (I think you posted some pics on another thread). I wonder if a custom built cat using higher tech material than plain FRP like yours has inherent advantages over mainstream production cats. In particular when it comes to performance, your daggerboards seem the way to go, but it seems few production cats have them until you get high end. It would seem these are necessary for good upwind performance, right?

Where is your helm station? I always liked the Atlantic/Gunboat forward/inside helm station. If I were to design my own cat, I'd have a forward steering cockpit with an aft mounted wheel attached to a long axle/hub that goes into main cabin to another wheel- that way you could steer inside or out using the same steering system.

When I sailed aboard charter cats, and climbed all over a bunch at the Annapolis boat show, many had the bulkhead steering station so I felt like I was peering over a wall, and couldn't see the sails. Others had the flybridge, which felt very exposed and isolated, not to mention the high boom.
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Old 13-03-2012, 09:05   #222
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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Where have you been for the last few years ? Are you saying the economy has been great?

WOW
and where have you been? CNN says it is terrific and getting better. we better watch out, I will bet those previously owned cats will go up in price since things are so rosy.

Oh wait, nevermind, the drugs wore off and I see things a little more clearer now. Hot Dog, look for great deals coming soon.
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Old 13-03-2012, 09:14   #223
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

My main point is that if you want the best blue water capacity and build quality for under 150K, a mono will give you many more choices. Many bristols, sabres, tartans, hylas, and even some hinckleys are available at those prices. The cats in that price range are often beat up Lagoon or FP charter cats which will need significant updating. There also are Gems, older Prouts, Catalacs- which are decent boats, and obviously CAN be taken anywhere, but will not inspire the same confidence as a 40+ foot bristol or sabre

I love many cats, especially the more performance oriented ones (spelled expensive), and see owning one in future. Right now, although I could afford many new cats, I am in weekend and coastal extended cruising mode due to my young age and young kids and career, and prefer to save for future cruising.


My personal explanation for why many mono owners bash multis (and please note I am not including myself in the bashers) is that multi owners often say "I don't understand why anyone would buy a mono" as if it were just personal preference....

It's like someone who lives in a mansion saying "I don't understand why anyone would live in a condo! Don't you see how many more bathrooms, bedrooms, and space I have? How do you live in your condo-cave???"

You'd expect some criticism, right?
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Old 13-03-2012, 09:26   #224
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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Where have you been for the last few years ? Are you saying the economy has been great?

WOW
I don't think we've seen anything yet. However, I do regret the comment as I have been warned recently by the mod squad to STF up. Plus, the discussion has to become political. The last few years have been awful. I lost my little stash back in 'ought five.
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Old 13-03-2012, 09:28   #225
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Re: The Cons of Owning a Catamaran

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Originally Posted by malbert73 View Post

My personal explanation for why many mono owners bash multis (and please note I am not including myself in the bashers) is that multi owners often say "I don't understand why anyone would buy a mono" as if it were just personal preference....

It's like someone who lives in a mansion saying "I don't understand why anyone would live in a condo! Don't you see how many more bathrooms, bedrooms, and space I have? How do you live in your condo-cave???"

You'd expect some criticism, right?

Close. I think a better analogy would be someone who lives in a plastic McMansion that was built quick in a gated neighborhood and wont last 50 years saying that to someone who lives in a beautiful little stone cottage by the sea thats been there for 200 years. Sure the guy in the ugly McMansion has more bathrooms and bedrooms and glitz, but is he any happier? Did he get a better deal? I doubt it. In another generation the stone cottage will still be there, just the same. The McMansion will be decrepit and falling apart because it wasn't built to last. I will hand my boat down to my children when I'm gone, and I'm sure it will be in great shape. Unless I burn it or wreck it in the meantime. I feel good about that after putting 400k into it.
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