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Old 21-01-2010, 10:07   #1
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Thanks Tropic Cat, Sandy D,Southern Star

After reading this thread>Gemini Catamarans - Problems I was able to tick Gemini catamarans off my short list

Southern Star's assesment of the Gemini brand was done especially well; as were points made by Rick on Tropic Cat. I did feel that Sandy D made some valid points in his remarks.

Only problem is I ran across a PDQ forum which was full of problem threads with that brand too

Which left me wondering which brands of cats tend to have the least amount of structural problems as they age? I am looking at buying an older model cat 10-15yrs or more depending upon condition. It's apparent that the less hands that have owned the vessel prior to one obtaining it the better in my observation. Ususally one owner boats tend to be better cared for as a number of reasons are probably why. Some owners care for their boats knowing a day will come when they sell it; others actually enjoy their boats and care for it with attention to detail.

I am looking at Catalac and Prout cats as being some of the more solid boats as they age. Having read most threads here and online in other forums over the past year regarding cats; I came away with the realization that I am moving onto a cat for room, stability when anchored (less rolling), and space to relax onboard indoors and out. The 'speed issue' is firmly resolved by a few threads noting that most liveaboard cats in my sub $100k range are not going to be more than 5-7 knot boats at best. I'm ok with that as most of my previously owned monohulls did no better cruising.

I narrowed my choices down to PDQ32, Prout Quest 31, Catalac 8M, Maine Cat 30, Gemini 30 (gone now from the list). Opposite most cat folks my cruising tends to be Northern by choice vs carribean for now. I'm interested in moving over to the West Coast and heading North to see what's up there in Seattle and beyond to BC, Alaska, etc; as well as going to Newfoundland and parts of Northern New England.

That said, I notice that most cats are'nt that well insulated. Has anyone done so, and if you have what materials did you use? I thought of using sticky back 1/8"-1/4" cork sheets covered by something I have'nt decided what, to make cleaning easier.
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Old 21-01-2010, 10:23   #2
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Can you tell me where you found that thread? the link won't work for me. And I have been researching multihulls for several years now, and the Gemini is still at the very top of my list.
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Old 21-01-2010, 10:38   #3
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The thread is here ➭ Gemini Catamarans - Problems

.cruisersforum.com/forums/f48/gemini-catamarans-problems-25315.html
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Old 21-01-2010, 10:46   #4
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Thanks.
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Old 21-01-2010, 10:48   #5
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I am a relatively new owner of a PDQ 32. If you are talking about THE PDQ forum I don't remember reading about a bunch of problems. Curious as to what you have read?

Mike
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Old 21-01-2010, 10:53   #6
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Most of the catamarans you are investigating are on the smaller side.

I think it's harder to build a seaworthy offshore catamaran in a small size. You need to keep the catamaran as light as possible, but there are minimum hull thicknesses that you need to maintain in the hull of a catamaran so that it is stiff and doesn't flex at sea.

I saw two 32 foot catamarans in New Zealand that had part of their interiors detached from their hull by waves that hit them on the beam when sailing down to New Zealand. Both of them required extensive repairs to reattach their galley cabinetry to the inside of the hull. The fiberglass was thin without a foam core, and it had a tendency to flex in a seaway. A strong hit by a beam on sea detached the galley from the inside of the hulls.

Larger catamarans with thicker hulls and foam cores may be easier to engineer.

Some smaller catamarans are underbuilt for what we ask them to do.
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Old 21-01-2010, 10:54   #7
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i just read over the referenced gemini problem thread, and all I saw there was something about a bolt and flexing fiberglass.

I am still expecting to be plunking down some cash for a Gemini, when we find the right one in the right place. I am still not totally clear on the differences between the 3400 and the 105 M and 105 Mc. I had thought the 'c' had something to do with it being able to have the cocpit totally enclosed. I had also read some PR stuff about the hull shape making the 105 faster...

but then someplace I saw a different spec for mast height for the 3400 vs. the 105. The current production boats have an additional foot of mast height?

Wouldn't this in itself make the boats faster, without any hull changes?
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Old 21-01-2010, 11:07   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxingout View Post
Most of the catamarans you are investigating are on the smaller side.

I think it's harder to build a seaworthy offshore catamaran in a small size. You need to keep the catamaran as light as possible, but there are minimum hull thicknesses that you need to maintain in the hull of a catamaran so that it is stiff and doesn't flex at sea.

I saw two 32 foot catamarans in New Zealand that had part of their interiors detached from their hull by waves that hit them on the beam when sailing down to New Zealand. Both of them required extensive repairs to reattach their galley cabinetry to the inside of the hull. The fiberglass was thin without a foam core, and it had a tendency to flex in a seaway. A strong hit by a beam on sea detached the galley from the inside of the hulls.

Larger catamarans with thicker hulls and foam cores may be easier to engineer.

Some smaller catamarans are underbuilt for what we ask them to do.
This goes along well with what I've noticed between the PDQ and the Gemini. The Gemini will be faster and cheaper on average. The PDQ will put up with more abuse. My PDQ was rescued after a hurricane tossed it into the mangroves. (Long before I owned it) And it's still a very solid boat. I couldn't imagine there would be enough of a Gemini left to recover.

Of course I have a smaller cat because that's what I can afford, post lottery would be a much larger one.
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Old 21-01-2010, 12:04   #9
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Custom Search CF for numerous “Gemini” references:
here ➥ Cruisers & Sailing Forum

.google.com/cse/home?cx=014551797412114848894%3A2lb6ozabif0
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Old 21-01-2010, 15:52   #10
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Originally Posted by mikeandrebecca View Post
I am a relatively new owner of a PDQ 32. If you are talking about THE PDQ forum I don't remember reading about a bunch of problems. Curious as to what you have read?

Mike
Hi Mike, I was commenting in general about what folks here might consider 'quirks'; not major problems just things to deal with. I had read some of the threads on the forum with a jaundiced eye I guess you could say. It was after I had finished reading up on the G cats and I probably hd carried over a bit of the jaundice when reading about the PDQs. The PDQ32 is at the top of the list for me, as it seems to have the best attributes of the others (Catalac, Prout, Maine Cat)combined.
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Old 21-01-2010, 15:57   #11
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Originally Posted by maxingout View Post
Most of the catamarans you are investigating are on the smaller side.

I think it's harder to build a seaworthy offshore catamaran in a small size. You need to keep the catamaran as light as possible, but there are minimum hull thicknesses that you need to maintain in the hull of a catamaran so that it is stiff and doesn't flex at sea.

I saw two 32 foot catamarans in New Zealand that had part of their interiors detached from their hull by waves that hit them on the beam when sailing down to New Zealand. Both of them required extensive repairs to reattach their galley cabinetry to the inside of the hull. The fiberglass was thin without a foam core, and it had a tendency to flex in a seaway. A strong hit by a beam on sea detached the galley from the inside of the hulls.

Larger catamarans with thicker hulls and foam cores may be easier to engineer.

Some smaller catamarans are underbuilt for what we ask them to do.
Yes, I am usually alone on my boats which is why I prefer a smaller cat. Your post is right on the money with what I need to understand about cat structural integrity at sea I am not a fan of 'cored hulls' be they foam or balsa. I would prefer a solid glass hull and deck, but already own a tub in my house...though if they've been made in the past and can actually sail on a reach other than a broad reach I'd be game to take a look
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Old 21-01-2010, 15:59   #12
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Originally Posted by Canibul View Post
i just read over the referenced gemini problem thread, and all I saw there was something about a bolt and flexing fiberglass.

I am still expecting to be plunking down some cash for a Gemini, when we find the right one in the right place. I am still not totally clear on the differences between the 3400 and the 105 M and 105 Mc. I had thought the 'c' had something to do with it being able to have the cocpit totally enclosed. I had also read some PR stuff about the hull shape making the 105 faster...

but then someplace I saw a different spec for mast height for the 3400 vs. the 105. The current production boats have an additional foot of mast height?

Wouldn't this in itself make the boats faster, without any hull changes?
My Gemini interests were in the 30fter not the 105; so I know you are looking at much new boats than I with regard to the Geminis.
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Old 22-01-2010, 11:08   #13
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Oh, yes, I understand now. And yes, I am thinking about the 3400 vs the 105's, and specifically the diffs between the 105M, the 105 Mc and the DL.

3400s are about half the price of the 105's.

And i agree with you, the 3000s are not all that great spec wise.

Found a good (PC's PR) about the diff between the M and the Mc, by the way, at:
Model Catamaran by Builder

The new ones do have another foot of mast height, seemingly to be able to rig that screecher/drifter. I am finding discrepancies on weight/displacement. Very difficult due to different options, etc. But it's seeming like the MCs are about 7300 lbs, the earlier ones closer to 8000.

now I am going to try to find out about this DL version, although there don't seem to be many around.
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