Thank-you

[Tropic Cat]

Originally Posted by Hud3

A bit more germane to Wheel's original post...

You've probably heard of the "Food Pyramid". Well, here's the "Disagreement Pyramid". All is well if debate is kept in the upper regions.

.

Ummm...Ok...but...... what gives anyone the right to pop onto a mono thread and blurt out that Island Packet 380s are the worst dogs ever built? They sink every day because the keel bolts give way, and just everyone knows this. Hell... only idiots who don't know a thing about boats ever buy one

The above for illustration only.

A discussion or debate is based on facts. What I just wrote.. is an opinion, has no basis in fact, it is not a debatable item, and is just a plain outright troll attack. Absoultely no good could possibly come from any thread based on this. In my opinion, it should not be allowed.

Neither should similar attacks on multihulls.

[David M]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Ummm what about Nicolle? She wants Fanny Fenders

http://mauriprosailing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=SAI109&Categ ory_Code=SAIKNEE

I dunno whether to laugh or cry!!!!!!!

Laser sailors have those. I have pair as well. Old guys like me REALLY need them if you have ever sailed one for more than a couple hours.

Laser fannie fenders....LOL

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Hud3

You've probably heard of the "Food Pyramid". Well, here's the "Disagreement Pyramid". All is well if debate is kept in the upper regions.

.

So who gets to sit at the pointy end Hud ?

[Hud3]

RickM,

If you stick to the top three levels, you can have a reasoned debate. With mutual respect for all who are debating. Go below that, and you're into the mud wrasslin', and everybody gets dirty.

[Hud3]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

So who gets to sit at the pointy end Hud ?

Hmmm, hadn't thought about that. Not me, for sure!

[Alan Wheeler]

So who gets to sit at the pointy end Hud ?

The Admin/Mod team are currently argu....Debating that ;-)

[Tropic Cat]

Originally Posted by Hud3

RickM,

If you stick to the top three levels, you can have a reasoned debate. With mutual respect for all who are debating. Go below that, and you're into the mud wrasslin', and everybody gets dirty.

If you enforce your Disagreement Pyramid I for one will be very happy. It's a relief to see that you are now requiring a debatable point to be made in a multihull attack. I would therefor assume that all Trolls, wives tales and rumors will be deleted instantly, thereby avoiding most of the unpleasantness.

[MidLandOne]

Originally Posted by rickm505

I would therefor assume that all Trolls, wives tales and rumors will be deleted instantly, thereby avoiding most of the unpleasantness.

In my view -

- I trust that the decision as to what is a troll, wives tale or rumour be left to the moderators to make. Until that time all posters treated with respect as making informed, genuinely based claims, or expressions of their opinion (which just may be correct) on marine matters and not let ones own sensitivities run away with oneself.

- posts should not be treated dismissively if they cannot be proven by statistics or numbers as it may be such numbers or statistics do not exist or be kept; reasoning based on informed experience or observation is specifically allowed by the third level in the pyramid.

For myself I always post on matters where I have the background to do so or am able to rely on informed opinion or advice of my associates (and if there is some narrowness in those things I try to state it). I do though have a reputation for kicking the lights out of anyone who does not respect the care that I, or others, put into such .

Love and kisses to all (well to most anyway, there are destructive idiots to be found in most places) .

[MidLandOne]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

So who gets to sit at the pointy end Hud ?

Isn't it normally a fairy that gets that priviledge - or am I confusing pyramids with Christmas trees?

[Alan Wheeler]

I have just removed two post here. The main post of concern was in reply to Midlandone. I will not say anymore than that. But I will take this subject a little further.
Midlandone has made an important point. This place is about debate, NOT ARGUMENT! Anyone can post no matter what experience they have, If they are wrong with their belief of a subject, it can be discussed in a civil manner. If someone wants to sail their boat in a way that someone else wouldn't, but it still sails, who cares. Discussion of the differences is a good thing and maybe the person with the greater experience learns something. But what was just posted in reply top Midlandone was simply not acceptable and is mostly what is behind many of the issues we are having here. I simply will not tolerate it.
I have said this before, and will repeat.
No one knows the experience of any other member. All members have something to learn from another. If a member thinks he knows it all, he has another thing to learn. If you don't agree with a comment, respectfully reply with your view and why. Maybe you can teach the other member something, maybe someone else will post info you have never considered before.
Respect is all we ask here.

[Pelagic]

Wheels, I didn’t see those posts you deleted but a comment about what we are discussing.

I think we all wear 2 hats when we read through the threads. One as a student and one as a well meaning advisor.
For me;
When there are technical threads about DC charging systems / solar / toilets/ internet connections/ yacht gear etc… I am very much the student asking only questions to clarify any one strong opinion or relate to a personal experience. (I have been spoiled by always working with great engineers)

When it is about boat/ship management, safety and nautical decisions….. I feel comfortable as an advisor and occasionally as a result of bad experiences my opinions are strong and cemented in regret (for me or sometimes others).

That is just my passion for what we do speaking and it is never an attack on another’s opinion or decision.

I am all for respect, but let’s not loose the passion by trying to be too “politically correct”...Cheers!

I know, it is a delicate line you have to moderate and thanks for doing it.

[David M]

From: Respect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The general theory behind the mafia (whether fictional or non-fictional) is that most mafias in some form or another revolve heavily around the theory of respect. Where the hired men and those lower in the rank of the family are set to show "respect" to the mafioso."

Better start kissing those pinkie rings.

[Alan Wheeler]

Soooo??? I don't quite understand your point David.

[Maren]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

I think we all wear 2 hats when we read through the threads. One as a student and one as a well meaning advisor.
...

I agree.

One thing I’ve noticed is often the responses seem to hit upon the topic, but not answer. For example, I have always been interested in nascent technologies and also in less applied technologies. Basically I want to learn. Now, I don’t think most of these applications are going to work on a boat, and certainly not on something a cruiser would have -- at least, not for the foreseeable future. Usually I state that.

So a question that’s basically, “Does anybody have experience with X” gets answered as “There is all this information on the web” or “You don’t want X on your boat because …” But that wasn’t the question.

I chalk this up as normally as not reading the question closely or having a really strong desire to look like an expert. And I suppose there is the issue of native language. In any case I don’t come away thinking “Man, that was a really good answer”. But these are really ad hominum attacks or obviously incendiary. Should, or rather when, these sorts of posts pop-up, I support the moderators in waving the magic wand … er, mouse.

Speaking of which, Wheels did the moderators delete a boatbuilding thread?

[Alan Wheeler]

So a question that’s basically, “Does anybody have experience with X” gets answered as “There is all this information on the web” or “You don’t want X on your boat because …” But that wasn’t the question.

Not getting the answer actually answers the first part of your question of "does anybody". The answer is no, nobody has the experience.
It can also be interpreted as, "No I don't have the answer, but I do know this" or..."my experience suggest". That is just how a Forum like this one works.
We all have to understand one very important point. This forum is first and foremostly a "Cruisers Forum" designed to be a place for cruisers to hang out on, share experiences, share knowledge and most importantly, build relationships/friendships with other like minded people all over the world. The fact that we have the topic range we do, is for variety and to open discussions and to learn from one another. But they are secondary, not primary in the reason why this board exists. For those that have actually "got it" they have built some fantastic friendships. The discussion topics are only secondary to having the primary objective of building those relationships and for those that miss the point, they will end up taking nothing but empty frustration away from this place.
I suggest If you want to discuss technical topics in a technical manner with having accurate information being given, go join one of the technical web forums. But I can assure you of one thing. They are sterile places and often only one or two actually give the replies so as they can ensure correct information is returned.
I hope that helps a little more.

Speaking of which, Wheels did the moderators delete a boatbuilding thread?

Ummm, not that I am aware, can you give me more info??