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Old 16-12-2008, 23:02   #16
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heavy weather

I would have the engines running. Take power off the main as the boat is going thru the wind until the head sail is set, reset main.
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Old 16-12-2008, 23:13   #17
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Start your motors, and push & pull her through the turn. Use every tool available to you to accomplish any job. When you get to know the boat you will know how she behaves. Fortunately for me. I haven't seen that situation in my cat YET!......i2f
If your Simo tacks like mine did, it was never an issue.

Mine tacked faster and pointed higher than both of my Mono's and one of them was a class racing boat

Dave
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Old 17-12-2008, 07:07   #18
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If your Simo tacks like mine did, it was never an issue.

Mine tacked faster and pointed higher than both of my Mono's and one of them was a class racing boat

Dave
I get enough speed, and close enough to the wind I don't have this problem unless the wind is near zero. Then I backwind the headsail.

I don't understand the fear to gybe. It is something that needs to be practiced in strong wind, and perfected. Sooner, or later your life may depend on being able to gybe effeciently.

Jim Cate,

Every boat has it's weak points. I will be the first to admit my cat stumbles slamming in heavy weather close to the wind. So I fall off, and pick up speed, and smoothen out the ride.

The strong point? While surfing in 10ft. waves doing mid teen knots, and a cup of coffee sitting on top of the house. A mono will most likely be doing half that speed, and rolling along. At anchor I have tons of room, and sit flat with a wonderful 360 degree view from inside.

I have over 4k miles on a mono cruising Mexico single-handed, and a decade of several times a week on S.F. Bay in any weather. With my cat I have covered 10k miles, and 4 years of sitting on the hook. I love my old mono, but I appreciate my cat. I would go with a mono if going into the Southern Ocean, and eventually I will if my prayers are answered, but get another cat immediatley upon returning.

I believe 90% of sailboats are wonderful, but I realize they all serve a different purpose, different lifestyle, and different pocketbooks. Sometimes we go with what we know, because that makes us feel comfortable. As long as your are enjoying what you have, and give me a wave as we pass eachother. That's all that really counts.....BEST WISHES, and Merry Christmas to all.........i2f
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Old 17-12-2008, 07:47   #19
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I think it would help if we knew the catamaran your friends have bought. Other owners of the same model could then advise.

Also what do you mean by high seas? Do you simply mean "open ocean" or rather in extreme weather, ie over 45 knots, triple reefed mainsail and storm jib??

If the latter do you mean how do you change from beating to windward to running before??

These days there is absolutely no reason why a well designed multihull shouldn't manouever as well as a monohull. I know I wrote yesterday about the Deancat owners who always started their engines to tack, but I also said the Deancat was an awful boat.

Looking forward to clarification

Richard Woods of Woods Designs, on board his Romany catamaran in Marsh Harbour, Abacos

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Old 17-12-2008, 08:30   #20
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they just bought a Lagoon 37, and we were speaking of lets say following seas of the 10ft variety, and he was concerned about getting broadside to the next wave and not completeing the turn
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Old 17-12-2008, 11:35   #21
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10FT seas will just roll under the boat. Timing is everything, and being quick about it. If there is any doubt then let the motors work with you.....i2f
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Old 17-12-2008, 16:43   #22
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As long as your are enjoying what you have, and give me a wave as we pass each other. That's all that really counts
Geez, how often does that not happen

90% of the time we were ignored as we sailed past, some watched us come up and then actually turned their back to us as we overtook.

Manners and common courtesy guys, we are all one on the water, shouldn't matter what boats we sail.

Dave
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Old 17-12-2008, 17:08   #23
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I tack when I am ready without really thinking to any great extent about the sea conditions. When I tack in heavier than normal seas I am concerned about getting around as quickly as I can so if I am close hauled I come off the wind for long enough to maximize boat speed. Likewise if broad reaching and I am coming about, I will tighten the mainsheet and maximize speed on a beam reach befor turning. I find that jibing is easier on a cat than a monohull often because my mainsheet is never as loose as a monohulls. One, we use our travelers to move the main from port to starboard when running before loosening the sheet and two, our mainsheet excursion is limited by the aft position of the shrouds (no backstays). Move the traveler to the middle, tighten the main sheet and jibe.
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Old 17-12-2008, 20:34   #24
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they just bought a Lagoon 37, and we were speaking of lets say following seas of the 10ft variety, and he was concerned about getting broadside to the next wave and not completeing the turn
One would normally expect that if you are going to windward that there will not be a following sea.

If what they really want to know is how to gybe in a following sea then the trick is to try to do it when the boat is going fast down the wave so that the main unloads and can be got to the centreline of the boat easily.
Scary at first, yes, but practice it and you will find how much easier it is.

Jim cate, thank you so much for your helpful comments.

daniel
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Old 18-12-2008, 03:29   #25
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In all the cat sailing I've done, we just tacked or gybed when we wanted. We didn't wait for any specific moment in the waves at all. We've never had any problems tacking at all, certainly never needed to use the engines.

While it's probably true some cats don't tack well, or tack slowly, that's true of mono's too. Every cat I've sailed on tacked better and faster than my old steel long keel mono did. Pointed higher and sailed faster too.
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Old 18-12-2008, 03:30   #26
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Geez, how often does that not happen

90% of the time we were ignored as we sailed past, some watched us come up and then actually turned their back to us as we overtook.

Dave
Very true. I've seen this quite a few times also.
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Old 18-12-2008, 07:10   #27
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I wave to everybody, but get little response. That doesn't stop me though. Maybe I am just pigheaded? Once when we were returning from Crooked Island ghosting in under sail to Georgetown. We sailed past a HUGE power yacht at anchor. On the stern sat an elderly gentleman sipping a drink. I assumed he was the owner by his situation. I gave him a wave, and he sent back a big thumbs up, and a smile. YEAH, that's what it's all about......sorry about the drift......i2f
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Old 18-12-2008, 17:43   #28
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With all the fishing boats, bum boats and ferry boats here that do not give way to sailboats my wave is often the single digit variety.

Sailors always get the full 5 fingers...
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Old 18-12-2008, 18:04   #29
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Tacking in "challenging" conditions

[quote=svHyLyte;233769]The issue of whether one is sailing into a head-sea or with the seas or in an over taking sea has relevance because of the motion of the water in the waves and the resulting effect that has on the yacht's rudder(s) and ability to respond. In waves, the water rotates in a circular fashion in the direction of the wave's travel, reaching a relative maximum at the crest of the wave and a relative minimum in a trough. If one is traveling against a head sea, the water flow across the rudder(s) is at a relative maximum at the top of a wave giving one the greatest rudder control at that point. Coincidentally, however, at the top of a wave the yacht also has the greatest wind-load on her forequarters, blowing her to leeward away from her tack, hence one wants to begin the tack at the top of the wave as the yacht passes over the crest and then use the yacht's acceleration down the back of the wave, where the forequaters become somewhat sheltered from the wind, to carry through the tack.

I understand the question not to be about any specific condition, but whether it is a hand full for the boat or crew. Though I have sailed larger cats (Stiletto and PDQ now), I best learned this trick with the Prindle 18-2 I spent 8 years learning on.

As above, the best time to start heading up always seemed to be as a crest was rising, so that I would take it at a good angle and because I could spin it quick then, but I would not take it quite head to wind before the crest; I would just get the rotation going, and go head to wind just as I headed down the back. Then, I could get the jib over in the trough, probably before heading up again. You don't want to risk irons at the crest or at the base of the trough; you want to come through going down the wave. Wind speed is less, and the passing of the crest will tend to help the boat spin IF you already have it almost head to wind at the crest (other wise it may turn you away).

The sail advise given is all good. The motor advise might be good, if you are unsure. The main thing is to make SURE the main traveler is down a bit on the new tack, so that it cannot force you back into irons. Pre-set the traveler so that it will be ~1' lower on the new tack than what you used on the old tack, tack through more than 90 degrees, and then bring it back up in the next few minutes, once you are happy.

This is what always worked in waves ~ 50% of waterline and 25 knot winds. Above that I once chose to lower that main and wear with just the jib. That worked well at 35 knots. If I have jibed with the main up I'ld have pitchpoled for sure.
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