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Old 14-11-2015, 05:54   #1
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Synthetic shrouds and stays... on Trimarans

Some topics aren't easy to find the right place. I might post following in the sub divisoin "Deck how: Rigging / Sails" or "Product / Service Reviews", but I think it makes more sense to keep it in the division "multihulls", as it refers the specific rigging of trimarans using synthetic materials.



As some of you know I am lurking around since months for a trimaran I can live + work on... I went through 10 boats or so in the size of 35 to 50 ft. Mostly the owners or brokers do not deliver the details I like to know... or they think they can make the deal heavily overprized. :-)

My search keeps going... and now I got the first sales offer a cruising-racing 40 foot Trimaran has a roation wing mast (made of aluminium) by Sparcraft which are specialists for multihull masts... in combination with synthetic shrouds (of the standing rig) deliverd by Colligo Marine.

Colligo has a synthetic rig system for up to 70 feet. Different Trimarans have Colligo... e.g. Newick (see upper picture), Farrier, Corsair and others.



I have started to read about the (+) and (-) of Synthetic shrouts/stays, e.g. this interesting article
Synthetic Standing Rigging: The Modern and Traditional

Anybody here who has some (years of) experience with synthetic materials on a Trimaran or Catamaran ?

I'd appreciate it to learn from you about the "have to" and "donts" ! :-)

Happy Sailing !

Dick Newick Trimaran Lucky Strike (50 ft) with Colligo synthetics ...


Corsair F27...

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Old 14-11-2015, 05:56   #2
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Re: Synthetic shrouds and stays... on Trimarans

Pls come over to "Multihull subdivision" of the the Boatdesign Forum.

There I have started this topic. It doesnt make sense to have different places to discuss it. (Rec.: The BoatDesign Forum is cost free... registration done with some few mouse clicks.)
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Old 14-11-2015, 06:16   #3
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Re: Synthetic shrouds and stays... on Trimarans

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Originally Posted by Skip JayR View Post
Pls come over to "Multihull subdivision" of the the Boatdesign Forum.

There I have started this topic. It doesnt make sense to have different places to discuss it. (Rec.: The BoatDesign Forum is cost free... registration done with some few mouse clicks.)
Page not found. Was that even pointing to another page this site, or was it a hijack?
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Old 14-11-2015, 06:31   #4
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Re: Synthetic shrouds and stays... on Trimarans

Not sure what your question is, but 10 years ago, got a set of Précourt Dynex Dux shrouds for my F27GS trimaran.

There was a bit of 'constructional stretch,' but once that got worked out, the shrouds were flawless.

To my knowledge, they are still on the boat (since sold), doing fine. Boat is trailered.

In fact, come to think, all of the lines on the trimaran were some flavor of Dyneema, from the shrouds/bobstays, to the running rigging, lifelines, and even the trampoline lacing. Dyneema is the best stuff since sliced bread.

Dynex has been renamed, Hampidjan (mfg.) are now calling it DynIce Dux. In the US I know of Hansen Rigging and Annapolis Rigging, from whom you can purchase the product. Easy to splice yourself. I don't do business with Colligo, ever.
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Old 14-11-2015, 07:44   #5
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Re: Synthetic shrouds and stays... on Trimarans

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Page not found. Was that even pointing to another page this site, or was it a hijack?
Here the direct link. Sorry... I thought I have taken the direct link of the post and not the subdivision link. :-)

Synthetic shrouds and stays... on Trimarans - Boat Design Forums
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Old 14-11-2015, 07:47   #6
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Re: Synthetic shrouds and stays... on Trimarans

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To my knowledge, they are still on the boat (since sold), doing fine. Boat is trailered.
Interesting, as Colligo says they expect a life time of 5 years... it seems they yet have not experienced long standing synthetic rigs.

10 years would be OK. I suppose more UV is the problem than corrossion ??
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Old 14-11-2015, 07:51   #7
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Re: Synthetic shrouds and stays... on Trimarans

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Dyneema is the best stuff since sliced bread.

Dynex has been renamed, Hampidjan (mfg.) are now calling it DynIce Dux.
That product name is a real tongue breaker :-) Remembers me more Icecube or Ice Age ;-)
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Old 14-11-2015, 10:24   #8
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Re: Synthetic shrouds and stays... on Trimarans

Keep in mind that Dynex/DynIce are just the original, most of the major rope manufacturers are now making some form of heat set rope that competes with the Dux.

Right now I am trying to find some 2.5mm Alpha Ropes heat set. It isn't imported much to the states but is about 1/3 the cost of the Dux. My quote is $50 for 110' of the Alpha XTM 78.

Anyone happen to be in Europe and willing to price it there (with shipping)?
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Old 14-11-2015, 10:45   #9
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Re: Synthetic shrouds and stays... on Trimarans

I just added running back stays and I may put them on my Corsair 36 tri in the future. I'd recommend posting this on the F-boat forum, F-boats and Sailing Anarchy forums if you've not already done so.
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Old 14-11-2015, 10:57   #10
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Re: Synthetic shrouds and stays... on Trimarans

Skip, don't know if you are in the USA or outside of USA. That being said ....things sure have changed in the last 10 years. All the big boy racers only use the synthetic rigging. Who needs the most dependable rigging in the world? Cats and Tris doing 25-35 knots in 10 foot seas in the lower forties latitude...that is your gold proof right there.


On the F31 Farrier designs the setups have changed so much over the years. I remember when the stainless steel stays were taunt on both tacks. Now with the rotating masts it is absolutely freaky how the leeward stay has so much slack and the windward stay is taunt. Thought I would mess my britches first time I tacked it over and saw what happened upstairs...smile. But it works fine and so much weight saved aloft.


I have felt dynema on different F31s and don't understand why some feel soft and even slick...while others feel rougher and coarser...like comparing a silky feel as opposed to a hemp.


There are many sources of information to be had for your research. Riggers would be the best source in my opinion for product diversity and application. Pick any area you can think of where you have active racing fleets like Long Beach Harbor or Biscayne Bay Florida. Get some time with a sail loft and ask who they recommend for rigging...as you know the two are close friends. The other place to pick pearls up off the sand would be forums that deal with multihulls. This would give you access to skippers who use the stuff for long term applications like cruising or racing. I know Ian Farrier has a user's group. I am pretty sure Corsair would have something also. As you may know Ian Farrier and Corsair had a disagreement quite some years ago and are no longer in alliance. But the Corsairs are still very much a Farrier design. Also the Farrier designs are now made in Subic Bay by Multihull Direct and done very nicely by Michael Mallory.


Good luck.
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Old 14-11-2015, 11:02   #11
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Re: Synthetic shrouds and stays... on Trimarans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
Keep in mind that Dynex/DynIce are just the original, most of the major rope manufacturers are now making some form of heat set rope that competes with the Dux.

Right now I am trying to find some 2.5mm Alpha Ropes heat set. It isn't imported much to the states but is about 1/3 the cost of the Dux. My quote is $50 for 110' of the Alpha XTM 78.

Anyone happen to be in Europe and willing to price it there (with shipping)?
I live in a big port city... we have many "rope maker/traders". I can check.

There are 4 different types. - Which one ?

Alpha Ropes
Construction 12 strand coated Dyneema® Sk78 Extreme pre-stretched core. Features and Uses Lightweight, very low creep. Purchase systems with high static ...
Alpha RopesxtmDouble braid. 12 strand SK78® Extreme pre-stretched core + 24 plait ,100% HT Polyester cover. Uses: High load all round uses. Colors: Mix grey, black, royal ...
Alpha Ropes
double braid. 12 strand SK78® extreme pre-stretched core + 24 plait , HT Polyester + Technora® cover.

Alpha Ropes
Double braid. 12 strand SK78® extreme pre-stretched core + 24 plait , PBO® cover. Uses: Where high loads, and minimum elongation is necessary. Extreemly ...
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Old 14-11-2015, 12:52   #12
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Re: Synthetic shrouds and stays... on Trimarans

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I just added running back stays and I may put them on my Corsair 36 tri in the future. I'd recommend posting this on the F-boat forum, F-boats and Sailing Anarchy forums if you've not already done so.
My Swanson 36 cutter had stainless running backstays. One broke and I replaced them with (I think) a spectra line. No problems except they do sing in the wind rather badly and sometimes I have to reduce the tightness to stop the singing.
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Old 14-11-2015, 13:17   #13
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the singing boat....

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My Swanson 36 cutter had stainless running backstays. One broke and I replaced them with (I think) a spectra line. No problems except they do sing in the wind rather badly and sometimes I have to reduce the tightness to stop the singing.
haha... a musically boat. Yes, remembers me the gunboat.
https://vimeo.com/124671522

In this video it sounds like "the sirenes are calling Odysseus".
Should I bend myself on the Mast having a synthetic rigging and my crews wax in the ears ?


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Old 14-11-2015, 14:32   #14
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Re: Synthetic shrouds and stays... on Trimarans

Skip,

I was really joking, but if you can fine the Alpha D-Core XTM 78 in 2.5mm I would absolutely love some. They pulled it from the market here and all I can find is 3mm.


That hum of the Gunboat I am guessing isn't rigging hum its from the rudders. It is a pretty common phenomena on Beach Cats like Hobies and A-Cats where the rudders scream at high speeds. On the smaller boats it can be solved with a pair of scissors scrapped down the trailing edge, not sure I would want to do it on the Gunboat.


Keep in mind that really high performance boats these days are switching to unidirectional carbon rod rigging. It is even lighter and smaller than synthetics, but about 10 times the price.
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Old 14-11-2015, 17:11   #15
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Re: Synthetic shrouds and stays... on Trimarans

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I was really joking, but if you can fine the Alpha D-Core XTM 78 in 2.5mm I would absolutely love some. They pulled it from the market here and all I can find is 3mm.
Yes, some Dynamee rope makers in Germany start with 3 mm, too. - I checked out the basic prizes of two of the leading rope maker/traders in Germany (more than 100 years in business) who are still offering 2.5 mm...

Both have 2.5 mm Dynamee Pro (12 strand, pre-stretched, covered, stretch during working loads <1%). Their prizes are very close to each other: 63-64 Euros (inclusive VAT) / 100 meters. They offer the material only in this length, minimum. Next volume is 300 meters :-) . Weight is ~0,35 kg/100m with a breaking load of ~580 daN (kg).

So the prize in US dollars is 0.6892 US$ per 3.28084 feet (related to the actually currency exchange rate).



Different colours possible: grey, white, yellow, read or blue. The black one is carbon and is more expensive.

For now I dont know the brand these rope traders / producers are selling. I'd have to call them.

I suppose the delivery costs will be the biggest part, see table of German parcel service DHL International package fees (inclusive transport insurance).
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