Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 31-12-2008, 20:58   #1
Registered User
 
Jmolan's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mexico/Alaska/Oregon
Boat: 34' Searunner Tri
Posts: 712
Synthetic Searunner

Thought I would shoot this out in the Multi-hull thread. The boat is a twin spreader, cutter rigged, 34' (Jim Brown/John Marples) Searunner Trimaran. I just replaced all the SS wire rigging with Dynex Dux synthetic ropes. Most of the ropes are 7mm, but I used 9mm on the headstay and backstay.
You can see how we used the new style dead eyes to replace turnbuckles. They are aluminum anodized by Colligo Marine.
The last couple shots show a Highfield lever that is used for the Staysail stay. You can see how it used to need two shackles. I was able to replace all that with two distributors and some 3/16" Dynex. the 3/16" Dynex is used on all the dead eyes.
Just FYI the 7mm DUX is 15,500 lbs. breaking strength, and the 9mm Dux is 26,500 lbs. I was planning to use my bronze hanks on the fore-stay so that was my reason to use 9mm. I am now looking to use "soft hanks" and will not have to worry about any chafe at all...:-)
The last shot is me holding my entire rig. It came in at 15 lbs with the dead-eyes and all. I weighed all my wires earlier and they came in at 50lbs. Not counting the turnbuckles.
I know a guy who just spent big $$ to have a taper mast to save weight aloft. what about the guys buying carbon fiber masts? How much do they save in weight?
Anyhow I am pretty stoked. We splash this Friday and I will try to give report....
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0131.jpg
Views:	631
Size:	449.1 KB
ID:	6512   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0136.jpg
Views:	2680
Size:	465.4 KB
ID:	6513  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0146.jpg
Views:	799
Size:	495.3 KB
ID:	6514   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0142.jpg
Views:	685
Size:	503.5 KB
ID:	6515  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0144.jpg
Views:	750
Size:	490.1 KB
ID:	6516   Click image for larger version

Name:	PC090289.jpg
Views:	660
Size:	506.9 KB
ID:	6517  

__________________

__________________
Jmolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-12-2008, 21:37   #2
Registered User
 
Stillraining's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Puget Sound
Boat: Irwin 41 CC Ketch
Posts: 2,876
Very impressive..nice work
__________________

__________________
"Go simple, go large!".

Relationships are everything to me...everything else in life is just a tool to enhance them.
Stillraining is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2009, 03:34   #3
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Eastern Seaboard
Boat: Searunner 34 and Searunner Constant Camber 44
Posts: 949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmolan View Post
Anyhow I am pretty stoked. We splash this Friday and I will try to give report....
Such a nice job, Jack; you really have something to be proud of. Do let us know about the UV resistance over the long haul. If I knew it was UV stable now, I would definitely be doing the same thing.

Have a great sail Friday and I look forward to hearing about it
__________________
Regards,

Maren

The sea is always beautiful, sometimes mysterious and, on occasions, frighteningly powerful.
Maren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2009, 09:35   #4
Senior Cruiser
 
Roy M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Southwestern Yacht Club, San Diego, CA
Boat: Searunner 40 trimaran, WILDERNESS
Posts: 3,042
Images: 4
Jack, What are the equivalent stainless 1X19 equivalents of 7 and 9 mm synthetic?
__________________
Roy M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2009, 12:30   #5
Registered User
 
Jmolan's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mexico/Alaska/Oregon
Boat: 34' Searunner Tri
Posts: 712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy M View Post
Jack, What are the equivalent stainless 1X19 equivalents of 7 and 9 mm synthetic?


Roy I could have easily gone with 7mm. I used 9mm on the two fwd. stay as I thought I was going to be using my original bronze hanks. It looks now like I can make soft hanks real easy and not have any concern about chaff. The Boat was originally wires with 7/32" and 1/4". The best 1/4" wire runs 6900 lbs. I thing (don't quote me) The 7mm Rope runs 15,500 lbs. & 7mm is the smallest they make so far and we can eliminate any creep or stretch by using something so much stronger than needed.

The best explanation and comparisons can be here:

Dynex Dux | Colligo Synthetic Systems | Colligo Marine

Got the boat launched today, everything went well. She's on the hook in front of the house now. I will try to get some shots....:-)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMGP2286.JPG
Views:	353
Size:	148.0 KB
ID:	6542  
__________________
Jmolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2009, 16:03   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
Roy M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Southwestern Yacht Club, San Diego, CA
Boat: Searunner 40 trimaran, WILDERNESS
Posts: 3,042
Images: 4
Thanks, Jack, for the link. According to the table of stretch and strength for different diameter stainless and synthetic, I could use 11 to 13 mm synthetic to be the equivalents to my 5/16" 1 X 19 stainless, and the 7 to 9 mm for my 1/4" shrouds and stays. I'll be looking more deeply into this later this year when I pull the stick and replace the shrouds and stays. Isn't technology cool?
__________________
Roy M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 22:23   #7
Registered User
 
Jmolan's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mexico/Alaska/Oregon
Boat: 34' Searunner Tri
Posts: 712
First sail today was soooooo nice. We dropped the buoy (no engine on-board for a while) about 10:00 and the wind was just starting to show in little patches. I was amazed at the boat speed in that light air stuff. So was the one guy that came along. We were close to wind speed making 4 to 5 kts (GPS)just ghosting along with the drifter and main up. The wind slowly built as we tacked back and forth and took up on the shrouds. At the end of two hours we were making a steady 7 to 8 kts just effortless. I would guess the wind between 12 and 15 tops. The outer hull lifts clear of the water so easy now...man o man can you tell I liked it
The new rig was quiet and steady on all points. I figure I have a few more sails to get thing set as far as the ropes getting re-aligned after upsetting the weave from splicing and handling.
The boat acts like a new boat with the good bottom and lightweight rig. I am amazed at the difference really. Anyhow, after all the work it was just such a nice re-entry into sailing again.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0237.jpg
Views:	427
Size:	383.6 KB
ID:	6591   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0236.jpg
Views:	396
Size:	395.3 KB
ID:	6592  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0240.jpg
Views:	431
Size:	339.0 KB
ID:	6593  
__________________
Jmolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 08:48   #8
Senior Cruiser
 
Roy M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Southwestern Yacht Club, San Diego, CA
Boat: Searunner 40 trimaran, WILDERNESS
Posts: 3,042
Images: 4
You don't appear to have much headstay sag using the drifter. I'm almost as excited as you are. Enjoy! And, congratulations!
__________________
Roy M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 11:14   #9
Registered User
 
Jmolan's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mexico/Alaska/Oregon
Boat: 34' Searunner Tri
Posts: 712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy M View Post
You don't appear to have much headstay sag using the drifter. I'm almost as excited as you are. Enjoy! And, congratulations!
Roy, I kinda blew it actually.......John at Colligo told me after he makes an eye splice he puts the line under a load to get the mis-alignment out out the fibers. he figures I will have 2.5 inches on the 9mm Dux to take up before it takes the "set" and stops. A little less on the 7mm...
I forgot to load any of my lines before I stepped the mast. I have been taking up the back stay on anchor, and of course that makes the forestya tighter. and we had no problem taking up the shrouds while sailing. The Highfield is hany too to really geta bight on it.
One good trick is to make sure you rove the small lines in the deadeyes so that the line you take up on comes from the bottom on the inside. This way makes it easy to sit and take up on the line. I have also attached it to a halyard. This works really well. You not only get the major power of using a winch, but the mast is "bent" that direction.
The boat just feels different. Like no hobby horse or when a puff came along, it would lift a hull and just stay there (and go fwd.)
So far I could not be happier with the whole project
The boat mascot agrees
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	P1020373.jpg
Views:	286
Size:	348.6 KB
ID:	6600  
__________________
Jmolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 11:20   #10
Registered User
 
James S's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Yemen & Lebanon... the sailboat is in Lebenon, the dhow is in Yemen
Boat: 1978 CT48 & 65ft Cargo Dhow
Posts: 5,816
Images: 139
Nice pics...thanks
Real clean looking work.....good job!
__________________
James
S/V Arctic Lady
I love my boat, I can't afford not to!
James S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 11:33   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5
The UV resilience must be slightly suspect over the typical life of s/s (10 years) here in europe. What does your insurer/surveyor say?
__________________
blue merlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 12:06   #12
Registered User
 
drew23's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: cruising Mexico
Boat: Searunner 37 trimaran, Islander 34
Posts: 286
I've been reading this thread (and other threads referencing it) with great interest - I've just purchased a Searunner 37, and in a few years when my bank account recovers I'll likely follow your lead. Nice work!
__________________
drew23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 16:28   #13
Senior Cruiser
 
Roy M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Southwestern Yacht Club, San Diego, CA
Boat: Searunner 40 trimaran, WILDERNESS
Posts: 3,042
Images: 4
Jack, When I used the Amsteel for my steering cables, I hooked the eye over a deck cleat and cranked down hard with the genoa winch and left it under tension for a few hours, occasionally taking a crank on the winch handle to make up for the "creep". I guess that's what you were doing with the handy billy. Anyway, keep up the good work. You have made a lot of folks excited and hopeful for reducing weight aloft and improving weatherly performance. Thank you for sharing your experiences. This is going to become a new standard for Searunners (and others).
__________________
Roy M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2009, 16:07   #14
Registered User
 
Jmolan's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mexico/Alaska/Oregon
Boat: 34' Searunner Tri
Posts: 712
Nice pics...thanks
Real clean looking work.....good job!
__________________
James
S/V Arctic Lady

James, thank so much. Hard to believe we can be halfway around the world, and sometimes it is like we are sitting on the dock sharing boats huh?

The UV resilience must be slightly suspect over the typical life of s/s (10 years) here in Europe. What does your insurer/surveyor say?

UV is still under investigation. It takes years actually to conduct tests. It has not been around that long.
If an insurer were to ask you can tell them it is the only synthetic rope certified by Lloyd's.
Tested in accordance
with OCIMF

specifications


There has been a pull test that I know of that showed 20% loss of ultimate strength after 20 months of exposure in the Mexican sun. The rigger in Australia speculates that it will get a shell or outer cover from this time of exposure, then slow down. But only time will tell, it's going to take a few years for sure.
Realize even if you loose 20% you are still miles ahead of wire because of how you start out. Use this table for example:

http://www.colligomarine.com/Colligo.../Dynex-Dux.htm

If you have brand new 3/8 wire you start out at 14,500 lbs. breaking strength. Now put a few years of stretch, corrosion, fatigue and count in the fitting which also have these same things to deal with. I would wonder what the numbers would be.

If replace it with 11mm Dux you start out at 36,800 lbs. It is 150% stronger just starting out. Then you eliminate, corrosion, fatigue, stress crack etc. Oh by the way you lose 73% of the weight....Any weight saved up high pays off big time I am sure you know.


As a practical matter, we find in work boat conditions where the line is in constant use, it will out last wire at least 3 to 1

I've been reading this thread (and other threads referencing it) with great interest - I've just purchased a Searunner 37, and in a few years when my bank account recovers I'll likely follow your lead. Nice work!

Right on Drew! Very Cool, congratulations. If you are in BC it is probably a little cool right now. When I got my boat I knew it needed a lot of thing, but I just told myself to go sail it for a while. So I did, I sailed a lot for two years, then put it in the barn for a re-fit. If you don't mind me asking, what named boat did you get? I know many of the Searunner's in the NW. Keep in touch, more the merrier!

Anyway, keep up the good work. You have made a lot of folks excited and hopeful for reducing weight aloft and improving weatherly performance. Thank you for sharing your experiences. This is going to become a new standard for Searunners (and others).

Roy, as always you have been a good encouragement. Pretty fun being able to knock this stuff around. I got a new one for you.

In the first shot on the left is a synthetic soft hank. They are easy to make and you can use them to attach the sail on synthetic stays. On the right is my new invention...;-)
After looking at those soft hanks I thought, "why not a soft shackle too"? So I made this up for my fwd. halyard. (the next photo)You just slip the eye through the clew, loop it over the stopper knot and give the cover little slip toward the knot and it is secure. So far it seems to work just fine. I would have to use it in a bunch of different conditions before I could recommend it. But if we can eliminate bronze hanks, shackles, wires, and clew snaps....why, the deck might become a friendlier place huh? So what if it chaffs (I don't think it will)? I can cut it back and make another one in 5 minutes.
I had Tony Morrelii on board the other day. He said he can understand people being resistant to this stuff. He is all over it. He said "how often do you get such a leap, that is affordable, and simple to implement"?
He want to make up some halyards. I showed him what I SW doing. I took SK-75, 3/16" Dynex which is plenty strong by itself (I mean it is 7k breaking strength, my halyard max would be 2,000). It is hard on the hands being this small. Rather than cover it like many are doing, I took some Dynex SK-65 twine and buried inside the 3/16" stuff. It comes out just about right on the hands, and will not absorb any water and is light as a feather.....It is the last shot, but not a very good one, showing the core and cover..... ahhhhhhhhh ya gotta luv it....:-)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0254.jpg
Views:	513
Size:	516.1 KB
ID:	6634   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0253.jpg
Views:	449
Size:	529.6 KB
ID:	6635  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0248.jpg
Views:	432
Size:	527.9 KB
ID:	6636   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0268.jpg
Views:	465
Size:	469.3 KB
ID:	6637  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0264.jpg
Views:	463
Size:	436.1 KB
ID:	6638   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0269.jpg
Views:	483
Size:	436.5 KB
ID:	6639  

__________________
Jmolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2009, 16:40   #15
Senior Cruiser
 
Roy M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Southwestern Yacht Club, San Diego, CA
Boat: Searunner 40 trimaran, WILDERNESS
Posts: 3,042
Images: 4
Jack, you are on your way to being the 21st century Brion Toss. I especially like the halyard bend and toggle. You should take a look at Clifford Ashley's book on knots. I was thinking that the Chinese button knot might work out as an attractive and stable knot for similar projects. As it is, I have completely redesigned my future boarding ladder/swim step to use synthetics for support.
__________________

__________________
Roy M is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
Searunner

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Any Updates on Synthetic Rigging ? Gashmore Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 214 22-09-2017 08:58
Synthetic Rigging and Electrons Jmolan Marine Electronics 39 04-01-2010 04:14
WTB: SeaRunner Tri rdbeales Classifieds Archive 16 18-06-2009 17:36
Synthetic standing rigging roblanford Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 33 31-12-2008 21:11
Synthetic oil? mobetah Construction, Maintenance & Refit 7 06-01-2008 11:31



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:47.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.