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Old 15-05-2009, 21:23   #46
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Originally Posted by Jmolan View Post
I can defenitly see what you are refering to. I do not know much about those boats except the little I hear or pick up on the web. I had heard they do not use headstay's separate from the the ones that all carry headsails. There must be also a "stay" the can take down those sails and run up to secure the mast. In those conditions it does not look too inviting.
So if a cutter rigged cruising boat has double furlers, and they get in similar conditions, the headsail ets furled and stay up there with the weight and windage right? And with the CLF you have the option to drop it all on deck.
I've never sailed a cutter rig but yes it would follow that the furled headsail would add extra weight and windage. The only redeeming factor is that a conventional furler and genoa/jib can be reefed and the inner foil adds control and rigidity (at a cost of weight).

On the subject of reefing, another reason not to leave up the light air sail on a CLF is that it can start to unwind at the top in a high wind. Once the winds get up into the twenties or thirties (or higher) there is no way to re-furl an unwinding sail on a CLF. The CLF just doesn't give enough control, so you have two choices: Either drop the whole deal and stow it, or bear off downwind to reduce apparent wind and blanket it with the main while you re-furl, but at that point it's wise to drop it anyway. If you're anchored or don't have the main up you have only one option... drop and stow it.

I am not a fan of using light air sails in heavy winds or gusty/squall conditions, even more so on a multihull. I want to keep my tri upright and so the mantra is "reef early, reef for the gusts".
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Old 18-05-2009, 19:20   #47
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Here is a photo I just could not resist to show. If it posts too small go to:


http://www.sailinganarchy.com/fringe...9_groupama.jpg

You can see the rolling furlers we were talking about...but the boat takes my breath away!
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Old 18-05-2009, 19:26   #48
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This ought to get you going some more. What an awesome boat!

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Old 29-05-2009, 21:52   #49
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Name up in lights...:-)

Latitude 38 eBooks - March 2009

If you pick up a copy of Latitude 38 June, they did a few pages on our boat and rig. I downloaded the Ebook version for free today and was pleasantly surprised. He got most things right too. A few errors but not bad at all...:-)
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Old 16-10-2009, 09:33   #50
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There was a Westsail 32 in the Annapolis boat show. We called it the "Wireless Westsail". NO more wire, all 9mm Dynex Dux and Colligo Fittings. Rigged by Southbound of Annapolis. They have 3 more boats lined up after the Westsail to convert.
I have included a bunch of photos in the URL below. It is fun to see Brion Toss and Nigel Caulder both onboard with this now. Momentum is building.
Brion spoke everyday at the boatshow. His one comment. In ages to come, we will see this 100 year period as an anamoly. We used wire to hold up a mast.........
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Old 16-10-2009, 10:40   #51
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Can you use the synthetics with roller furlers for the headsail?? This would be a big thing for us cruisers. Had my wire headstay break strands at the mast head terminal. Hopefully, that wouldn't be as much a problem with the synthetic. Doubt that synthetic would make a good back stay antenna for an HF radio. Oh yeah, there are other ways to get around that.
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Old 16-10-2009, 12:36   #52
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I used dyneema in my new furling system.
Take a look at Shanti's blog here.
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Old 16-10-2009, 21:53   #53
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Gary, yours looks like a continuous line furler. I think Roverhi is asking about a roller furler.

I love my CLF, but it is a different animal than a roller furler.

Roverhi.....A synthetic backtstay is nice because you do not have to have insulators installed. Last I looked they were $160 or so each! You can run a bare wire on the outside.
So far there is only one roller furler (Spintech) that I know of that works with a Dynex Dux fore-stay. The problem is the foil does not fit the rope, it is not the same size as the wire. And the splice on the rope is fat. For a typical 9mm Dux rope you have a two foot long bury on the splice, both top and bottom.
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Old 16-10-2009, 22:16   #54
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Mahalo Jmolan. So other than the Spintech furler you would have to use the continuous line furler. From what I understand, the continuous line furlers are a bit spendy. So to change over to all synthetic, it's going to be a big financial hit if you want to keep your roller furling.

I'm toying with the idea of adding 3-4 foot longer stick to my shallow draft center boarder for better light air performance. I'm concerned about adding weight aloft since I don't have a deep keel to counter balance it. Thought about a carbon fiber stick but they are really really spendy. Going with synthetic rigging would take a significant amount of weight off the stick and would be a lot more cost effective. Keep the reports coming, especially the effects of long term sun exposure.

I put in the backstay comment with tongue in cheek. I already have an insulated backstay so that is money long since spent. Was aware of the stand off wire antenna hung from the backstay.
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Old 17-10-2009, 10:10   #55
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Roverhi,

The size of your boat/rig makes a big difference in weight savings. I just boxed up 426' of 9mm Dynex Dux. This is enough rope for a good size rig. The weight with the box came to 16.5 lbs. at the post office....

The same 3/8" wire (without fittings) would be 128 lbs.

3/8" 1x19 Wire comes in at 30 lbs. per 100' and 14,800 lbs. breaking strength

9mm Dynex Dux is 3.7 lbs. per 100' 26,500 lbs. breaking strength.

Continuous line furler are very versatile, I have put this one on my bow, at the staysail spot, as well as on the out side bow of my trimaran.

Furlers | Colligo Marine

Nigel Caulder will be getting a new Colligo Dux rig soon. It is a new boat in Sweden. The Dux will have a braided weave over it. The cover will be SK-75 Dyneema.... ....It is the best stuff they can find for chaff and UV.
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Old 17-10-2009, 10:21   #56
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Roverhi,

I may be wrong but I don't see any reason why you could not use Dux for the shrouds and backstay and keep a wire headstay along with your furler.

I need to replace some turnbuckles that were lifted while my boat was in the yard. I have been quoted over $1200 for 2 open body toggle blank turnbuckles for my 14mm wire. A set of deadeyes from Precourt will run about $320 for a pair. I plan to replace the turnbuckles with deadeyes and when the time comes, replace the cap shrouds with Dux while keeping the forestay wire so I can keep my Gucci furler.

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Old 17-10-2009, 11:08   #57
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Mikereed,

You are correct. You can mix and match Dux/Wire in a rig. The recommendation is if you change a lower on one side, to do the same on the other side. Dynex Dux acts just like wire when it is in tension.

The WestSail shown previous to this had a new wire for the roller furling gear.

I originally slowly swapped out my wire. Started with my life lines, went to 7mm running backstay's.....after that is was like OH YEA! Did the whole rig.

Mike one thing would be good to know, how much did those turnbuckles weigh?

I saw All the Cats at the Annapolis show with MASSIVE wire and turnbuckle on the bow for the seagull striker.

I talked to one Cat owner who too 500 lbs. off his bow by switching out of wire for Dux. 500 Lbs!! Just his bow wires and seagull striker and turnbuckles.....kee-rummba!
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Old 17-10-2009, 17:02   #58
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Jack, I was talking with the folks at Rigworks, here in San Diego, about synthetics and Colligo. It turns out that Rigworks does work for Colligo. Rigworks has a dynamic tester, as well as an oven for "cooking" the tensioned line, increasing the strength dramatically. I don't know much more of this technique. Perhaps you might illuminate us?
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Old 18-10-2009, 09:55   #59
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Jack,

Now you've got me thinking. I do need to replace my seagull striker rigging as that has wandered off as well (I reckon a good number of the cruising boats in SE Asia are rigged with my turnbuckles. My favorite fantasy is that one by one these rigs come down while safely at anchor in some very remote paradise ). I would think that the static loads on this piece of rig would be pretty high, requiring an increase in Dux diameter to avoid creep but definitely worth a check-out. As it stands I have redisigned the seagull striker to carry a screw-type tensioner so I can eliminate the turnbuckles, but the forks and wire are heavy, and expensive, enough. I am a big fan of synthetic rigging but I suspect the cat owner that took 500lbs of weight off of his crossarm rigging by switching to Dux may have been gently pulling your leg. 100' of 3/4" 1x19 weighs a little over 100lbs and even a massive turnbuckle weighs less than 400lbs!

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Old 19-10-2009, 09:14   #60
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Roy, sorry for the late reply. I am not sure what Rigworks is doing. Sounds interesting though. Hey, when are you going to release some photos of your boat? It can't be tore up all the time is it?

Mike, a phone call to John at Colligo Marine would clear up most any questions you have. There is more to sizing Dux than just throwing up another rope as you know.
I believe the Cat guy who lost all the weight up front was refering to his new bowsprit, stays, seagull striker and all. Still sounds like a lot though I admit....
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