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Old 23-01-2009, 11:51   #31
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Old 11-05-2009, 17:13   #32
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Just returned from a 6 week cruise on the Baja side of the Sea of Cortez. Had a wonderful time! Thought I would update and assure everyone the rig is still standing
I ended up splicing in a new staysail stay and downsized it to 7mm. The bronze hanks I was using proved to be not a problem. And I had a funky length on the stay from be for and need to get a better length in there.
John for Colligo gave me a continuous line furler just before I left and I ended up using it all the time. I have all 3 of my head sails rolled up and in the bag now. Just roll up a sail, drop it, attach another and roll it out! Very cool. I was also successful at putting on an ama bow when I was off the wind to get the headsail out in clean air. Looks funny but it works great!
Had a few informal races. We had one great day with a good size fleet of the Latitude 38 gang all together. We were passed by two Cats that are both a half million or more...other than that we were 3rd. hit 14.4 kts and a lot of 13's in the old 30 year old plywoodie....:-)
The "softies" worked with out fail at anything I had them on. Tacks, halyards, anchor bridal leads to replace blocks etc.
My original idea to use the end of the halyard as the attachment needs some refinement. I need a bigger knot.
We sailed right out into a "Norther" and ended up running off all night with just a staysail up. 20 hours, the Self steering saved my but, my wife was seasick...oh well. The boat was a dream, had the back window open and none of the 8' to 10' got a drop inside. The Sea of Cortes northerlies give you a wave that is 8 feet high and 10 feet long....lots of dancing....no fun as the rig was not yet tightened up as much as I should have. Oh well....only excitement whole trip.
Much tanks to John Franta at Colligo:Home
Check him out, he has a lot going on all over the world now. Wire is dead!
Anyhow all went well, and there was was much interest in the rigging, I suspect it will only become more so as time time goes on.
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Old 12-05-2009, 20:28   #33
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Wire is dead? I wish.

I love what you did but doubt it would work well on jumper stays. Creep would be a problem, along with chafe at the spreaders. I did the same as you on a Dragonfly 1000 tri top-shrouds but didn't have the courage to replace the wire mast jumpers or wire forestay (beneath a furler).
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Old 12-05-2009, 22:58   #34
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Wire is dead? I wish.

I love what you did but doubt it would work well on jumper stays. Creep would be a problem, along with chafe at the spreaders. I did the same as you on a Dragonfly 1000 tri top-shrouds but didn't have the courage to replace the wire mast jumpers or wire forestay (beneath a furler).
Did you use Dynex Dux? Many boats early on used spectra or dynex (SK-75) and suffered from creep. Dynex Dux is SK-75 heated and stretched ahead of time. The process makes it much stronger and much less prone to creep

Creep has been eliminated by sizing the ropes to where the static load is less than 20% of the breaking strength. It creeps less than stainless, when it is sized right.

Jumpers I assume you mean diamond stays? They are being done in Dynex Dux. I have Dux out on my spreader tips where the shrouds pass over them with plastic hose covering it, no problems there.

Your right you cannot use it under a foil for furlers (yet) but I hear of a rumor that one company is getting ready to release a foil that is sized for a synthetic forestay....:-)
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Old 13-05-2009, 17:48   #35
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Did you use Dynex Dux? Many boats early on used spectra or dynex (SK-75) and suffered from creep. Dynex Dux is SK-75 heated and stretched ahead of time. The process makes it much stronger and much less prone to creep

Creep has been eliminated by sizing the ropes to where the static load is less than 20% of the breaking strength. It creeps less than stainless, when it is sized right.

Jumpers I assume you mean diamond stays? They are being done in Dynex Dux. I have Dux out on my spreader tips where the shrouds pass over them with plastic hose covering it, no problems there.

Your right you cannot use it under a foil for furlers (yet) but I hear of a rumor that one company is getting ready to release a foil that is sized for a synthetic forestay....:-)
I used Dynex and fittings supplied by Precourt Systems in Canada Precourt Rigging - Internationally recognized for our synthetic rigging systems. I don't know who was the maker of the Dynex but was told it was a European source. As for the diamond stays, it would have required modification (machining) of the spreader tips and caps to avoid sharp edges and severe overcompression of the Dynex, and recoating to prevent aluminum oxidation... beyond the scope of what I wanted to "pioneer".

I sold that boat and will probably use synthetic rigging again when the opportunity arises.
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Old 13-05-2009, 18:08   #36
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Yes you are right. Dynex is Spectra is Amsteel is.....on and on. It is all SK-75. And it is made in only two places, one in Denmark and one in the USA..then the rope makers take it and color it or weave it and call it by there brand name.
Precourt was an early user of Dynex and rigged a lot of F-boats with it. The creep was not as critical as the masts are all rotating and they go up and down a lot with trailering. But you cannot use regular SK-75 for a standard rig for standing rigging, you get too much creep. This is where you get so much confusion, as most have not heard of Dynex Dux as assume it is the same as the regular SK-75 stuff.

I just recieved this from Colligo today:

I am starting shrouds for the Westsail today. He is using lashings.

I am also doing a Dolphin 46 cat with rotating mast, Cap shrouds, Diamonds, Martingale,- all in 16 mm Dux and lashings, the biggest for us so far! Designed some larger terminators for it.

It is exciting to see all the new uses and rigs coming together.....:-)
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Old 14-05-2009, 04:10   #37
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... Wire is dead! Anyhow all went well, and there was was much interest in the rigging, I suspect it will only become more so as time time goes on.
I suspect the interest will become higher when they can make the stuff totally UV impervious. Until then, I wait and read.
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Old 14-05-2009, 04:30   #38
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I suspect the interest will become higher when they can make the stuff totally UV impervious. Until then, I wait and read.
I don't think you will ever see synthetic rigging completely impervious to UV. Much like you will never see SS wire impervious to rust and fatigue.

I believe that synthetic rigging is going to end up a game of percentages. 5/16 wire is about 10k lbs breaking and 9mm Dynex is about 25K breaking. So you have a lot of overhead breaking strength to work with. You lose so much from the splice/fitting, then you start to lose strength from UV. When the total lost gets the Dynex down to 10K lbs, you replace it.
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Old 14-05-2009, 06:54   #39
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I believe that synthetic rigging is going to end up a game of percentages. 5/16 wire is about 10k lbs breaking and 9mm Dynex is about 25K breaking.

Dynex Dux is 27,500 lbs breaking, not to nit pick, but everyone falls into calling it Dynex, or Spectra, or Amsteel. then someone else will take that name and will inquire about using it for rigging and get a flat "no way" which would be right.

So you have a lot of overhead breaking strength to work with. You lose so much from the splice/fitting,

Spliced correctly it is close to 100%

then you start to lose strength from UV.

First year showed 20%. way too much for my friend Maren, and reports are the degradation slows down as it is the out side that is effected. We'll see, much more info coming as they break test samples exposed to year round sun.

When the total lost gets the Dynex down to 10K lbs, you replace it.

I never thought of it that way. So when if finally gets down to brand new wire you replace it? I have to think about that one.

How is your re-rigging going down there?
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Old 14-05-2009, 11:18   #40
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John for Colligo gave me a continuous line furler just before I left and I ended up using it all the time. I have all 3 of my head sails rolled up and in the bag now. Just roll up a sail, drop it, attach another and roll it out! Very cool. I was also successful at putting on an ama bow when I was off the wind to get the headsail out in clean air. Looks funny but it works great!
Hey, could you talk a bit more about this furler? I'm looking into furling systems now for my 37' Searunner (I intend to do a lot of single-handing, and the running back and forth is getting seriously tiresome), and I don't know anything about continuous line furlers.

What are the advantages? Disadvantages? Would you recommend one over a 'traditional' furler?
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Old 14-05-2009, 11:30   #41
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(...maybe make a new thread, I don't mean to hijack your thread)
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Old 14-05-2009, 16:23   #42
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(...maybe make a new thread, I don't mean to hijack your thread)

NAhhhh...it's all part of the package Drew

Basically you have a swivel you attach to the halyard and then attach that to the top of your sail and hoist the sail up regularly with out attaching any hanks. You tension it as tight as you can. You have a drum at the bottom between the tack of the sail and the deck.
When you are done you roll the puppy up! You can then drop it, it comes down in a nice tight roll. You can attach another sail and hoist it the same way. On My Searunner I ended up rolling up my drifter (pictured) my Genoa, and my Yankee. So all 3 sails are now bagged. they take up much less room in the bag.
The difference as I understand it (I have never had roller furling) is with a roller furling your headstay has a foil over it, and you slide a sail up the foil, and roll it up or unroll it. And you can reef it too.
The round' world racing boats are using continuous line furlers. If you google it you can see up to 5 of them all the way up the deck. The amazing thing this is also what they use for stays. With the right ropes in the luff there is plenty of strength I am sure.
I have yet to modify my headsails that way. I need to remove the hanks and put a piece of Dux in the luff, so I can get maximum tension without hurting the sail. I may do the Dux part and leave the hanks as they have not been any problem.
If there is any problem you can always just drop the headsail. I know if the rolling furler get screwed up you can have a mess of a time getting it down.
Also with a Tri or Cat you can locate the drum any place you like. Out on a bow sprit, out on another ama ect.
i want to get a smaller one for my staysail. I figure it is my "get out of a fix" sail, like getting woke up in the dark with a bad wind. The Searunner sails very well with just a staysail.
That is about all I know. I love mine so far....:-)

A few shots of mine. Also one of the sail rolled and hanging there, anchoring off a rock island that is a small fishing village.

Last I looked Colligo was running a special. Even the regular price is half what the big names are I think.

http://www.colligomarine.com/
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Old 15-05-2009, 11:43   #43
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There are quite a few shots hereof the big tris, If you look you can see multiple headsails rolled up....Insane! I wanna do that....:-)

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Old 15-05-2009, 12:06   #44
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multiple headsails

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There are quite a few shots hereof the big tris, If you look you can see multiple headsails rolled up....Insane! I wanna do that....:-)

You wanna sail one of those tris? ... or you want to roll multiple headsails? I'm with you on the former, but not the latter.

When using my screacher (it's deployed from a sprit on a continuous line furler) and the wind rises I sometimes keep it furled and "up" after switching to the genoa, and it's not a good thing: For one thing, it's extra windage in the form of drag (so it's not fast) and it's also extra weight aloft which can be a problem in any sizable chop. When the furled sails start to 'whip" at the mid-sections from pitching in waves; it can set the entire mast pumping. There is nothing good about that.

You can see some of that pumping action in the video you posted. Some examples are (at minute counters) 2:09, 2:18, 2:33 and especially from 2:59-3:14.

Headsails that are on removable luff stays are best taken down when not in use.
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Old 15-05-2009, 12:18   #45
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I can defenitly see what you are refering to. I do not know much about those boats except the little I hear or pick up on the web. I had heard they do not use headstay's separate from the the ones that all carry headsails. There must be also a "stay" the can take down those sails and run up to secure the mast. In those conditions it does not look too inviting.
So if a cutter rigged cruising boat has double furlers, and they get in similar conditions, the headsail ets furled and stay up there with the weight and windage right? And with the CLF you have the option to drop it all on deck.
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