Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 20-05-2016, 09:50   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: St Augustine, FL
Boat: 1995 Privilege 51
Posts: 285
Images: 3
Survey Questions

I have a few questions regarding surveys, specifically for financing. I have some emails out to my various finance contacts also, but wanted the knowledge from this group also.

1. How long is a survey good for? For example, if we get one done in June, but can't sell our house until later in the summer. Is it still valid, and for how many months?

2. Looks like an on-the-hard survey first. If this goes well, we will pay for the splash and sea trial. Is this common to do in two steps? Perhaps a month apart? It is a large catamaran and splashing is not cheap nor easy, so didn't want to go there until we have to, and until we have a contract on the house.

3. Will we be able to establish value after the dry survey only? I'd assume so.

Thanks in advance,
Ray
~ Following Cs ~
__________________

__________________
FollowingCs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2016, 10:07   #2
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,352
Re: Survey Questions

Well, I guess you are asking if your financier will accept the survey a few months after? I would think so but you should ask them.
You should be able to establish value from a dry survey.... under the assumption that the motor is known to run. A motor could be started and run for a few seconds just to see with no damage in most cases. (not in gear!)
Beware most survey values are very high in my experience. (if the boat is good)
I see no issue in doing a survey in two steps, it may cost you more. The reality is though the sell may sell the boat before you close.
__________________

__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2016, 16:55   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
FSMike's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bahamas/Florida
Boat: Solaris Sunstar 36' catamaran
Posts: 2,654
Images: 5
Re: Survey Questions

You should ask those questions of the party doing the lending, not an Internet forum. Lenders usually have differing policies, and you should ask them directly.
__________________
Sail Fast Live Slow
FSMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-05-2016, 06:11   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Winter Germany, Summer Med
Boat: Lagoon 380 S2
Posts: 1,027
Re: Survey Questions

So you want to buy the cat but only if the house sells?

Then just sell the house first and move to a small apartment for a few weeks.

The boat could be sold to someone else between your survey and selling the house, or your house may not sell as well as you think. And you will only know your financing needs once the house is sold.



With regards to the dry survey: Any marine mechanic can run the engines on the dry, but you can't load them up. Also you can't assess a couple of other things on the dry: radar, compass, autopilot, depth sensor, leaks, etc. But a dry survey should be enough for the overall evaluation.


If you are thinking about the Privilege 51 listed by Mediaship.it send me a PM.


BTW: Financing a deprecating asset like a boat is a NoGo in my book (unless for business / tax reasons). Get something you can afford to own right away.
__________________
rabbi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-05-2016, 09:37   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: St Augustine, FL
Boat: 1995 Privilege 51
Posts: 285
Images: 3
Re: Survey Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbi View Post
BTW: Financing a deprecating asset like a boat is a NoGo in my book (unless for business / tax reasons). Get something you can afford to own right away.
Unless you have alot of cash tied up in other assets that are producing excellent cash flow, and the loan rate is much less than the return from other investments.... of course to each his own. More risk, but better returns.

Plus I've already got the wife down to the bare minimum she will consider, so it is what it is. She won't get on a monohull. I've got the best plan that will work for me.

~ Following Cs ~
__________________
FollowingCs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-05-2016, 09:38   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: St Augustine, FL
Boat: 1995 Privilege 51
Posts: 285
Images: 3
Re: Survey Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by FSMike View Post
You should ask those questions of the party doing the lending, not an Internet forum. Lenders usually have differing policies, and you should ask them directly.
Yep, as I said in the original post, I have emails out to my finance contacts, but it was a Friday afternoon, and you know bankers...... no answers from them yet. But I've got PM's from people that have done it, so some good 'this is how I did it' info.

~ Following Cs ~
__________________
FollowingCs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-05-2016, 09:44   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Winter Germany, Summer Med
Boat: Lagoon 380 S2
Posts: 1,027
Re: Survey Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by FollowingCs View Post
Unless you have alot of cash tied up in other assets that are producing excellent cash flow, and the loan rate is much less than the return from other investments.... of course to each his own. More risk, but better returns.
Understood - but not my world. I like to have my "home" paid off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FollowingCs View Post
Plus I've already got the wife down to the bare minimum she will consider, so it is what it is. She won't get on a monohull. I've got the best plan that will work for me.

A wife that views a P51 as the bare minimum must be very expensive !

Mine prefers ~40ft. Big enough, easy to handle, less cleaning. She recently rejected a Lagoon 440 because its too big, and boy that was an excellent bargain.
Each his own. Happy wife - happy life !
__________________
rabbi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-05-2016, 10:38   #8
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,352
Re: Survey Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbi View Post
So you want to buy the cat but only if the house sells?

Then just sell the house first and move to a small apartment for a few weeks.

The boat could be sold to someone else between your survey and selling the house, or your house may not sell as well as you think. And you will only know your financing needs once the house is sold.



With regards to the dry survey: Any marine mechanic can run the engines on the dry, but you can't load them up. Also you can't assess a couple of other things on the dry: radar, compass, autopilot, depth sensor, leaks, etc. But a dry survey should be enough for the overall evaluation.


If you are thinking about the Privilege 51 listed by Mediaship.it send me a PM.


BTW: Financing a deprecating asset like a boat is a NoGo in my book (unless for business / tax reasons). Get something you can afford to own right away.
No problem testing the radar or autopilot on the hard.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2016, 02:42   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Winter Germany, Summer Med
Boat: Lagoon 380 S2
Posts: 1,027
Re: Survey Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
No problem testing the radar or autopilot on the hard.
true.
but only simple tests. not easy to check course keeping ability of the AP or radar overlay/marpa capabilities as these depend a lot on the break movement and the different gyros/fluxgates.
__________________
rabbi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-05-2016, 11:05   #10
Senior Cruiser
 
Roy M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Southwestern Yacht Club, San Diego, CA
Boat: Searunner 40 trimaran, WILDERNESS
Posts: 3,041
Images: 4
Re: Survey Questions

Having been in the marine biz for a very long time, and having performed any number of surveys, I think I can reasonably ask the question: "Do you want to know the condition of the boat to a critical degree?", or the alternative question, "Does my lender want to know the value of the object they are going to inherit should you fail to pay them money."

Those are two different surveys, and two different surveyors. Banks want one, potential owners want the other. The loan survey is pretty basic and serves to make a paper-pushing desk jockey happy. A potential owner wants factual details that will reveal more about what expenses will they face in coming months and years.

In the event you can't find a real surveyor (one that actually provides you with constructive information) then you must do so via a variety of other specialists. For example, in the area of mechanical knowledge, pay a very competent mechanic to obtain an oil sample for analysis. Run the engine and examine the exhaust under varying levels of RPM, at the dock with spring lines, in forward and reverse gear. Better if you can go for a spin with the mechanic so he (or she) can place their ear to a bulkhead and "listen" to all the sounds that are transmitting throughout the boat, and conclude what is making those sounds. You want him to "feel" the gearshift, throttle, kill cable and steering, then go inspect those sites while someone else monkeys with the wheel and controls. You want to have placed a "diesel diaper" under the engine to see what leaks out while running the engine. You want the mechanic to inspect the entire drive train, from the alignment of the engine to shaft coupling, the intermediate bearings, the shaft log (when the shaft is making turns and when it has stopped turning) to check for leakage and temperature. A really prepared mechanic will have an infrared heat gun to check for hot spots. The rudder and steering system deserve a lot of attention. When you actually haul the boat for the final inspection, pay for the rudder to be dropped and know that that critical piece is healthy. The owner probably will refuse to pay for it. That might be a clue to your inspections.

A rigger needs to come visit the boat, actually raise the sails and furl them, go to the masthead and confirm that the equipment is in good repair and maintenance. The sails need to be eyed to reveal areas of damage or poor shape. Winches, leads and cleats need to be checked out carefully. Play with the stuff to feel how it works, listen for squeaks and binding that indicate lack of maintenance.

A competent electrician will remove the electrical panel cover and look around for evidence of DIY work, usually manifested by lack of wire labelling, chaos and tangles of wiring (often of inadequate size or type), fusing and dampness. Also, (s)he will inspect the house and start batteries, using a battery tester (the 12 volt toaster oven type) to determine remaining battery capacity, also using hydrometer, should the batteries be flooded, to see if significant sulfation is building up. All the electronics need to be put through their paces to make sure they are worth the additional price the owner is touting for them. If they are older than five years, don't allow for that argument. And when you replace them, pull the stick down and replace all of the electrical wiring, vhf antenna, wind instruments, disassemble the masthead sheaves, remove and replace all of the spreader bolts ad compression sleeves, and even repaint the mast if it's older than about ten years since the last overhaul. Or don't. Life should have some degree of uncertainty to add zest and excitement.

These things are expensive and time consuming to check out. The bank guy won't even be able to pronounce some of the systems, the majority of surveyors don't have the time or inclination to climb into the bilge, lazarette or engine compartment, much less open the electrical panel. They will "tap" for dry rot, inspect for hull blisters, and check for stains that indicate leaks. They have to do something for the $300-500 they will charge. My preventive maintenance surveys cost about $2000 for a forty-foot boat, run to about fifteen or twenty pages, and document every single fixture or piece of equipment that is aboard that wears out or stops working. Not many folks want that degree of foreknowledge or cost prior to taking ownership of their dream boat.
__________________
Roy M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2016, 17:21   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Cruising the Keys
Boat: 1998 Manta 40
Posts: 30
Re: Survey Questions

Don't buy the boat until you sell your home!
__________________

__________________
texpie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
survey

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Two Questions: One Regading the Deposit, One on who Owns Survey Report ty.gregory Boat Ownership & Making a Living 41 20-08-2014 07:13
Done a self survey yesterday have some questions Reefmagnet Dollars & Cents 25 15-10-2013 12:22
Survey Questions - Australia Serenity01 Dollars & Cents 2 20-09-2010 20:16
Questions... actually more of a Survey kaoskorruption Meets & Greets 1 05-07-2008 23:39
Post Survey Questions... sopwith camel Multihull Sailboats 5 04-04-2008 14:38



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:10.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.