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Old 19-06-2007, 19:32   #16
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Lagoon 37, and save a 100k to go crusing.
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Old 26-07-2007, 12:53   #17
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CRUISING CATAMARAN: READY TO SAIL

I saw your message looking for a cruising catamaran for under $250000 and others' suggestions about looking for cats already in tropical places.

We have a unique 38-foot cruising catamaran for sale in Hawaii.

She is a one of a kind, cedar hull work of art with a 50-foot rotating wing mast, teak decks, wood interior, an abundance of deck space and fully retractable rudders and daggerboards.

She is a proven open ocean cruiser and liveaboard. Sleeps 8 with 2 double bunks and 4 singles.

The boat is light, strong and fast. Her top speed was 20 knots (on flat seas) and 8 knots on the wing mast alone. Although we prefer to sail at more moderate speeds it was fun to discover what she was capable of.

With the daggerboards and rudders out of the water she only draws 16 inches which makes shallow water anchorages and beach landings possible.

I think you would be pleased with the boat's price.

Please contact us directly at: uniquecat999@hotmail.com. Details and pictures can be sent out.

She's visually stunning and makes quite an impression when under sail. The pictures will prove this.

Thank you.
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Old 07-08-2007, 06:26   #18
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It seems strange to hear you guys in the US actually contemplating coming over to Australia to buy a boat.
I look around at what you can get for USD$250,000 here and it's really not that great. Mostly 8-12 years old, strange homebuilt things, pretty crappy really. You might get the odd 4-7 yo seawind but nothing from Europe.

I was thinking the opposite - i.e. go to Florida and buy a boat and bring it back here. The only problem is that our outrageous customs duty and goods tax levied on foreign boats makes it unworkable.

250 grand in US gets you...

Length Boats Year Price (US$) Codes Location 44' Dean 440 Catamaran 1998 249,000
S U T D FG Stamford, CT 42' Fountaine Pajot Venezi... 1999 249,900
S U T D FG Fort Lauderdale, FL 42' Lagoon 42, "Tropic Daze" 1995 249,000
S U T D FG Ft. Lauderdale, FL 38' Robertson and Caine Le... 2001 249,000
S U T D FG Pensacola, FL 36' Kurt Hughes Day Charte... 1996 249,000
C U T G CP FL, USA 36' PDQ Capella 36 Classic 2002 249,950
S U T G FG Fort Walton Beach, FL Items: 1 - 6 of 6


USD$250,000 in EUROPE gets you...

Length Boats Year Price (US$) Codes Location 43' Outremer 38/43 1997 246,078
S U T D FG French West Med, France 39' Lagoon LAGOON 380S2 2006 246,078
S U T D FG Split, Croatia 38' Edel Cat Helios 38 2002 246,078
S U T D FG manche, France 38' Lagoon 380 2001 246,078
S U T D FG Bretagne nord, France Items: 1 - 4 of 4 Page

BUT in AUSTRALIA you are looking at... (A$1.17=USD$1)
TASMAN Sailing Catamaran Sail, Multi Hull, Cruising, 39 ft (11.92 m) $295,000AUD

CHAMBERLIN STRATUS 12 boat details - BoatPoint Australia

SCHIONNING COSMOS 1100 boat details - BoatPoint Australia

ORAM MANGO 38 boat details - BoatPoint Australia

ORAM MANGO boat details - BoatPoint Australia
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Old 07-08-2007, 06:41   #19
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Hi IDM, wash your mouth out with soap, and give yourself an uppercut while you're at it.

Those strange crappy homebuilt thing's would be better built and have better materials than almost any of the production cat's you showed from overseas.

With the exception of the Chamberlain and the Tasman Elite, all of the cat's shown in OZ should sail circles around the others .

Dave
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Old 07-08-2007, 06:57   #20
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OK OK,
so research is not my strong point, but you have got to admit....

There are some pretty decent cats for sale in the US, which, if you were willing and able to bring over here would fetch a pretty big margin on resale.

I mean a lagoon 38 costs an absolute fortune over here. I am not commenting on the virtue of any particular brand, but similar boats seem a lot dearer over this way.

I guess if it was worth the trouble then someone would have cornered that part of the market.

There are some beautiful boats over here - thats for sure, just not under A$300,000.
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Old 07-08-2007, 07:03   #21
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Lagoon 38 worth a fortune???

Only to someone who want's to part with a fortune.

Even if I had a bottomless pit of money I wouldnt have one, but that's only my opinion.

Well actually it's not. Thera are a few others here.

Dave
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Old 07-08-2007, 07:05   #22
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I said "costs" a fortune not "worth"

And by the way Dave,

You and your lower-powered cat have got me thinking. There are stink boats and there are stink boats. 1litre/nm is pretty cool really.

Still, give me the 'silence' of sailing anyday. It is certainly a relief when you turn off the key to the old internal combustion engines.

Now power your boat electrically....I'll be interested.
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Old 07-08-2007, 08:12   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cat man do
Hi IDM, wash your mouth out with soap, and give yourself an uppercut while you're at it.

Those strange crappy homebuilt thing's would be better built and have better materials than almost any of the production cat's you showed from overseas.

With the exception of the Chamberlain and the Tasman Elite, all of the cat's shown in OZ should sail circles around the others .

Dave
I have to agree with isolated danger mark, most of the cats built in OZ do look a bit crappy, it's as if you went beachcombing at low water to find your timber and then quickly threw some plans together.

Also why is it that most OZ cats helm positions are very low down as it appears you like to look through the saloon windows to see where you are going, I can only assume is that you need to be under a rigid bimini because of all the rain you have - not like here in sunny England.
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Old 07-08-2007, 08:27   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cat man do
Those strange crappy homebuilt thing's would be better built and have better materials than almost any of the production cat's you showed from overseas.
Don't doubt this statement entirely, Dave, but it really depends on the quality of the builder, doesn't it? Is there any way to determine if shortcuts have been taken in the build? Granted not all production cats are flawless, but at least the more reputable builders seem to stand behing their products. What options do you have with a second or third-hand homebuilt? Not a wind-up, I'm really looking to understand the Aussie home-built market. Presumably one of the reasons to build, is that it should be cheaper than buying off the shelf, so it seems odd that they're priced comparably to used production boats. Cheers,

Kevin
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Old 07-08-2007, 11:35   #25
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Catamarans are made chiefly in two places, Europe and South Africa. I believe Europe makes around 60% of the total boats and South Africa is around 40% of the market now. There are canadian, US, Brazilian and Australia makers, but the real big production numbers come from Europe and South Africa. The USD has made EuroCats (my term) for US buyers rise about 50% in price for the same product while the Rand has continued to fall against the dollar. So for value for boat for US buyers I would look at an Admiral 38 or 40 South African Catamaran. It can be had easily in your price range. It would have the 23 ft beam to give you very nice accomodations, but it's sail plan is much more manageable than a larger cat and you will be charged far less should you wish to use a marina at $2 to $3 a foot. It won't be as nice in terms of varnish and finish as a EuroCat, but still be nice and you can get one in sail away condition. You'll find as cat owners we sort of fall into two catagories, the bargain hunters (such as me) and those who really would pay top dollar regardless of exchange rate to get the exact boat they want. I too looked at Australian boats when shopping around, but couldn't see paying 10% of the price of the boat simply in delivery fees, plus another 2% in import fees, plus another 5% in state excise tax. Add airfare, hotel, rental cars, etc to the picture and you're probably looking at 40k in expenses before you pay one dollar off on your boat. If you're financing consider that the bank will want you to have 20% down for a good interest rate and you're looking at having to fork out another 50K for the down payment in cash.
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Old 07-08-2007, 11:45   #26
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Some really good advice SchoonerDog. The Euro is really kicking things around.
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Old 07-08-2007, 12:08   #27
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Nobody mentioned a MANTA!?

After looking at quite a lot cats, My decision went to go for a used MANTA. But they are rare on the market, waiting time from the wharf for a new one is quite long

Exchange rate Euro/Dollar helped a lot.

This MANTA for 250.000 US$

YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale
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Old 07-08-2007, 12:42   #28
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Well, there's good news and bad news. The good news is that so called "French Style Cruising Cats" (regardless of where they are manufactured) began to become popular in the Caribbean in the mid 90s. As a result, there are an increasing number of these boats approaching 10 years old and they can often be had for less than 250K.

The bad news, as others have observed, is the plummeting value of the USD (don't get me started on the reasons for this). As the cost of new boats escalates in USDs, the cost of used versions tends to inflate, especially if they are in the Caribbean and priced in Euros or Pounds.
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Old 07-08-2007, 15:44   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodesman
Don't doubt this statement entirely, Dave, but it really depends on the quality of the builder, doesn't it? Is there any way to determine if shortcuts have been taken in the build? Granted not all production cats are flawless, but at least the more reputable builders seem to stand behing their products. What options do you have with a second or third-hand homebuilt? Not a wind-up, I'm really looking to understand the Aussie home-built market. Presumably one of the reasons to build, is that it should be cheaper than buying off the shelf, so it seems odd that they're priced comparably to used production boats. Cheers,

Kevin
Just making my comment's from the fact that the Home built cat's shown are "Epoxy Composite", far stronger and lighter than the production boat's built from polyester or if lucky Vinylester.

Also my experience in the industry, which I got out of as it is a joke, was that actual boatbuilders with "Trade Qualification's" build custom one off''s or semi production, like Schionning, Oram and Pescott's. The guy's in production usually won't have trade qualifications and may have got there skill's in fiberglass from spraying fiberglass swimming pool's and truck component's. Some have no skill's.

You get's what you pay for Peanut's = Monkey's

on the other hand

So called amateur builders, most I have seen don't know the shortcut's used by production builders to save a $$.
They are taking wife and family out on the Wobbly stuff, so they have an interest in their safety.
Usualy build in Epoxy which is far superior.
Won't usually compromise on core material's
Take some pride in the work as it is more than just an underpaid job to them.

I think the reason most of us in OZ build instead of buy production, is not necessarily cost saving, though it is part of the reason, but mainly because we want a boat that actually performs.

You'll never see a production boat on the course getting result's here as the well designed and built custom/home build is always a superior sailing machine.

This washes off into cruising, for most it means the cruising is a much more enjoyable experience.

Dave
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Old 07-08-2007, 17:39   #30
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Dave,

I worked as a lacky building a 50ft cedar strip/epoxy cat in NZ about 20 years ago.
Even though that was a one-off, it was beautifully strong and light. Not a production cat at all, still a great boat.

So you are right, there are great non-production boats, (yours is probably one of them ) But they are thin on the ground for A$300,000.

My wife has allready ruled out me building one, which is probably wise, considering my skills and experience.

The reason good boats in that price range are dwindling is perhaps because of demand.
There are going to be a lot of real-estate-boom-nuvo-riche types in the market for cats in the next few years, so prices will rise accordingly.

We are planning on cruising when my youngest turns 3 in 2010. So hopefully there will be something around then still in this price bracket.

cheers
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