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Old 30-12-2014, 21:27   #1
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Structural Integrity Question

Hi All!

I am new to the forms and I have signed up to ask this specific question.

Today I viewed a Fountaine Pajot Orana 44. Beautiful vessel in immaculate condition except for one spot with some significant cracking where the starboard hull meets the crossbar.

I am new to cats so I'm not sure if this a common problem with a common fix.

Take a look and tell me what you think.
https://drive.google.com/folderview?...Fk&usp=sharing

The images are taken from the inside and outside of the same spot on the hull.
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Old 31-12-2014, 00:28   #2
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Re: Structural Integrity Question

Looks BAD, I'd run..
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Old 31-12-2014, 01:37   #3
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Re: Structural Integrity Question

That's in an area that can be repaired and beefed up. Should not be any core in that area but needs to be checked for moisture. If moisture has found its way into the core then it may be time to reconsider.


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Old 31-12-2014, 02:21   #4
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Re: Structural Integrity Question

That's a MAJOR structural problem. It could likely be fixed, but at a very high cost. And the thing is, given that it cracked in the first place, it'll need to be rebuilt stronger... as will the same section of the boat on the other side. For, without a doubt, at the microscopic level, the same damage has already occurred to some degree there as well.

You'll need a surveyor, or realistically a forensic engineer to analyze things, & come up with a solution. Then you'll want to get a few bids on the job.
It's going to run into the 5-digit range, all inclusive. And the boat will be in the yard for a couple of months.

Also, having the structure of the hulls re-engineered will be tricky. Because if the bows are built too strongly, then the beam, & or it's connective points will be the parts which become overloaded when the boat's under heavy stress.

Unless you're getting a GREAT deal, AND know professionals of the sort which I described above, then walk away.
Plus, were it me (looking at that structural flaw), even were I to get it fixed, in the back of my head I'd always be wondering "where else important did the engineers/builders fudge things"?
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Old 31-12-2014, 04:10   #5
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Re: Structural Integrity Question

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, eazye.
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Old 31-12-2014, 05:24   #6
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Re: Structural Integrity Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
That's a MAJOR structural problem. It could likely be fixed, but at a very high cost. And the thing is, given that it cracked in the first place, it'll need to be rebuilt stronger... as will the same section of the boat on the other side. For, without a doubt, at the microscopic level, the same damage has already occurred to some degree there as well.

You'll need a surveyor, or realistically a forensic engineer to analyze things, & come up with a solution. Then you'll want to get a few bids on the job.
It's going to run into the 5-digit range, all inclusive. And the boat will be in the yard for a couple of months.

Also, having the structure of the hulls re-engineered will be tricky. Because if the bows are built too strongly, then the beam, & or it's connective points will be the parts which become overloaded when the boat's under heavy stress.

Unless you're getting a GREAT deal, AND know professionals of the sort which I described above, then walk away.
Plus, were it me (looking at that structural flaw), even were I to get it fixed, in the back of my head I'd always be wondering "where else important did the engineers/builders fudge things"?

Wow, you can tell all this from looking at a few pictures?
Both sides look easily accessible so it would be easy to get a professional opinion rather than relying on advise from a bunch of people you don't know who are looking at a few pictures.
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Old 31-12-2014, 05:45   #7
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Re: Structural Integrity Question

Looks to me like it's a straightforward area to reinforce substantially. One photo seems to show that the deck gelcoat has been over-painted and this should also be investigated, unless the whole deck was painted as a cosmetic upgrade.

I would treat it as a good opportunity to negotiate but it's hardly a deal-breaker..
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Old 31-12-2014, 05:52   #8
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Re: Structural Integrity Question

I agree with Smj and Chris. A quick message to yeloya or Neil pride on here might help to clarify as I'm sure they would have come across this before..
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Old 31-12-2014, 06:19   #9
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Re: Structural Integrity Question

Although I have never seen a build this way, that looks like a deck cap piece in which the glue/tab hull/deck bond has broken. Notice the horizontal linear crack all along the top of the pad with that strange filled gap across the top of the deck. Also notice that there is no obvious structural issues with the beam mount or pad itself.

If so, it should be straightforward to repair and only marginally structural in providing the top cap of the attachment point.

But if so, I don't understand the reason or purpose for this design/build detail - very strange indeed. The Orana was never that good of a boat for FP, and the early ones certainly had some build issues. Do you know what hull # this one is?

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Old 31-12-2014, 06:39   #10
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Re: Structural Integrity Question

Looks like it's the result of impact to me. Ran into the dock or something. Based on that I don't think you can immediately assume that the other hull needs reinforcing in the same spot.

If it is damage from impact, then I think the repair should be pretty straightforward. But I ain't no expert so I'll leave it at that and shut up now.
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Old 31-12-2014, 06:45   #11
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Re: Structural Integrity Question

Why would anyone want a 'forensic engineer' unless you plan on taking someone to court? Anyway, I'm with SMJ on this one - apart from attempting to find out if this is a common problem on the Orana, you should definitely get a survey and some estimates with respect to the cost of repair/reinforcement.

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Old 31-12-2014, 07:24   #12
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Re: Structural Integrity Question

I see something similar before, a slight crack developing in the pad área, this one looks horrible ,, by the way we replace some crossbeams last year, one in a Swicht 51 and another in a Lagoon, just to point that to fit the crossbeam in the lagoon we need to pull the bow hulls apart by 1 inch to squezze the crossbeam in position, we use truck straps ...

The repair is pretty straightforward to me, the only isue is the crossbeam , the crack run alongside the pad, so in my shoes i remove the crossbeam and reinforce the área around the pad and looks like a previous repair in the picture , if you notice the caulking in the seam you can see obviously a coat of paint or gelcoat cracked around the seam... is not a Fountain Pajot isue by the way... Cheers...
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Old 31-12-2014, 07:35   #13
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Re: Structural Integrity Question

Hi Eazye,


First of all a warning since a you are newcomer to this forum: there are some very knowledgeable people here as well as many others who are not but pretend to be so.
I don't consider myself an Orana expert but we have two of them in our charter fleet and I've extensively sailed with one of them.

-Oranas are very poorly finished but are very solid and seaworthy boats. Sails better than many new generation FP's.
-before the specific issue that you mentioned, you better check the osmose issue which most of the Oranas have been subject to. We treated many Oranas under FP warranty and I can tell you that the latest hull numbers (hull #>40 or so) are much better built. If you find blisters and/or high humidity readings, you have to check with FP to see if it's still under warranty. Osmosis treatment can cost you easily 20.000 USD or more but if it's done properly, the boat will be as good as any boat in the market. (actually, better as vinyl ester are used instead of cheap orto phtalic resins that most of the manufacturers are using..)
-the cracks shown on pictures are not normal and cannot be related to poor manufacturing. Try to find out how this could have happened and whether or not other parts of the boat are impacted.
-the damage shown on pics are relatively easy fixes and repairs could cost much less than 5 digit $ USD as someone has suggested.
-if you are not familiar with boats, I strongly suggest that you arrange a surveyor/specialist to have a look before you commit to a purchase.
You can send a PM to me, if you need further detail.

Cheers

Yeloya
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Old 31-12-2014, 16:47   #14
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Re: Structural Integrity Question

Gents, if you like, I can write up an explanation as to the why behind what I said. And if there's something grossly incorrect in it then I'll have learned something. However, such a thing would likely be a rather lengthy document.
I do have a fair bit of experience with, & knowledge of composite construction. Ergo, my previous statement on this topic.
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Old 31-12-2014, 17:34   #15
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Re: Structural Integrity Question

Contact FP. Speak to someone, ask them if you can forward the same pix to them for their consideration. They MIGHT know something about how well they built the boat and what you are looking it. If they say it is fixable, ask them for a local dealer or yard who can lay hands and eyes on the boat, and include their estimate in the purchase price of the boat, or an escrow set-off for it.
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