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Old 24-10-2016, 12:00   #1
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Storing a wooden mast for the winter.

Guys - I intend to store my built-up wooden mast on the pier for the winter, blocked about 30 inches off the surface every 10 feet or so, and loosely wrapped in tarps to protect it from moisture. This will allow me to rework my spreaders a bit and perform a much-needed overall inspection.

The mast is clear spruce, 43 feet long with aircraft ply on each side, and a layer or two of eglass.

Are there any special risks I need to mitigate while this is being stored? I don't want to damage this beastie!




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Old 25-10-2016, 03:18   #2
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Re: Storing a wooden mast for the winter.

I would think that the big concerns would be moisture inside of it freezing, & the possibility of it getting blown over by strong winds & being damaged. Other than that it probably would be wise to strip off the halyards, & any other running rigging, & (electrical) wiring that you can. Ditto on instruments.

And it's a guess on my part, but I should think that you probably don't need to leave the shrouds set at their full upwind tension over the winter. Not that they should be loose, as that would leave them more vulnerable to harm from excess vibration. But they don't need to be left sitting cranked up to their upwind settings either.

What have you done in the past to prep the spar for storage? Ditto on the boat's other rigging bits, like the forward crossbeam & it's associated hardware.
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Old 25-10-2016, 04:56   #3
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Re: Storing a wooden mast for the winter.

Hi Uncivilized. Thanks. The mast has been up for about 6 years now. I've sailed the boat two seasons, and have never dropped it!

I need to inspect everything up there....

The shrouds and forestay are Colligo Dyneema. I might be replacing the forestay (getting fuzzy from the jib hanks.)

Crossbeams etc are aluminum so no worries there....



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Old 26-10-2016, 20:34   #4
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Re: Storing a wooden mast for the winter.

I’d been wondering what the hardware configuration on this thing was like, once it was clear that she was a rotator.
Were it me, since the beak/nose is semi-encapsulated, & thus a wee bit more vulnerable to crevice corrosion, even up high. Plus the ouch factor associated with it failing, it might be worth having it X-rayed come Spring. That way you know that it’s good for several more years, knock on wood, barring any freak incidents. As usually such pics would even catch things not visible to the eye, were you loco enough to remove it completely, & do the dye penetrant workup, etc…
Which, for most of the other metal bits isn’t a bad idea, including any structural pieces that connect to the forward crossbeam, or connect said beam to the hulls & their tangs. Ditto on the support structure under the mast’s butt, about which I’ve zero idea as to how it’s configured, or what it’s made of.

As to the “Jesus shackle”, in Kurt Hughes’s parlance. The one attached to the nose, that holds up EVERYTHING. That too is like worth X-raying, if not swapping with an inspected titanium one, if you’ve got $ to burn. And there are other forms of NDT (Non-Destructive Testing) which also work, like Magnetic Particle, etc.
That said, it’s fairly obvious that everything up there’s WAY overbuilt. But then it kind of has to be… for all kinds of reasons.

Keep in mind that I’m not a bona fide expert on rotating rigs. Just possessing of a bit of common sense, a touch of NDT experience, & lots of sailing time, on all kinds of boats. Would that I had a few hundred hours on PRB or similar, with her unique rigs over the years. Including early gen, composite & Spectra “hounds”. But if you can wrangle their time, guys like Kurt (Hughes) are a wealth of info.

Also, I don’t know how old the rig is, nor what care it’s seen, or how it’s built. But it might be worth pulling some of the tangs, & inspecting the mast itself where their fasteners enter the wood. Or at the very least, doing a good inspection of all of those areas. Perhaps they’re all epoxy bedded? Or rather, bedded in epoxy, but sealed with something flexible.



I’ve always loved the idea of a rotating rig, but based on feedback, am not sure about having one on a true “cruiser”. The arguers for & against being kind of split. Regardless, a boat’s going to have the windage of a mast up there, & I’m not sure that one of a reasonable cross section would be a liability in a storm. Especially if her L/W ratio is say 2:1 or 3:1, & overall not being way bigger in area than a fixed tube. Thoughts?
It’s seemed to have worked for the ones build by Gold Coast catamarans as of last check anyway. Even for their boats that have anchored through named storms & hurricanes. Knock on wood.



Anyway, back to your rig. Could you be kind enough to post some pics of the spreader tips, & their mast hardware please. Ditto on the halyard setups, & your rotator. As well as the gooseneck, & your reefing setup, if your lines are internal in the boom that is.

Did your boat happen to come with her build plans? Especially including those for the spar & rigging. I know that having them for my Searunner’s rig sure was handy. Not that I ever much needed them, as all I replaced was her shrouds, & some paint. But they were nice in that they showed you how to build a rig, & not just for a Searunner. Something that it’d be nice to see more examples of in print. In addition to say Brion Toss’s works.

Oh, & by chance did anyone glue a few sections of aluminum or copper foil inside of the spar when it was built? I’ve always wondered if doing that helped a lot with one’s radar cross section or no.

Thanks for sharing this, BTW, it’s mucho interesting. As things outside of the norm usually are. And now you’ve got me wanting to take a closer look… and sate my ever growing crab cakes deficit. Thanks to spending 4yrs on the bay in MD at Canoe U. Man I miss the good food there!



Edit: Thinking on it, it might be worth rigging up a setup to dry things out, once you guys lose the white stuff, come Feb/Mar. Even if it's just a bunch of heat tape wrapped around or under it for a month or two. So that you drive (or keep) as much moisture out of the tube itself, as well as the wood, as you can.


Which, it probably wouldn't hurt to do that for the 2nd half of the winter, if not most of it. Depending on where it's stored, & what your options are. Especially if the insides of it weren't painted either with epoxy, preservatives, or both. And that dampness never really leaves that part of the country, regardless of season.



I'm almost afraid to ask, but what's she rate? And how does she compare to say a 40' Condor Tri, since there used to be a lot of them on the Chesapeake. And maybe still are?


PS: As a parting thought. Given the proliferation of thermal imagers anymore, it might be worth seeing about having some pics of the spar taken with one. I can't say with certainty that it would let you see the health of the spar's insides in full detail. But I can't imagine that it would hurt to ask an expert in said realm of photography in order to find out what they might be able to show you via such pics.
Yes, I'm preternaturally curious Always have been. Since I was old enough to wiggle my way across a room & go exploring on my own.
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Old 27-10-2016, 06:12   #5
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Re: Storing a wooden mast for the winter.

Thanks for the detailed and very helpful response. The local Multihull association took all the specifications, and without a spinnaker, the boat rates with an F-28 w/spinnaker. If I race with a spinnaker, it is going to rate quite a bit higher. same rough dimensions - 28 feet long, 20 feet wide, 2800 pounds and 550 sq ft sail upwind with the blade jib.

I do have the plans and they call for an alloy spar. This wooden spar was right up the builder's alley I guess (he is a fine carpenter.)

3 buddies came over last evening and we dropped this beastie. I had estimated the spar to be about 200 pounds. Now I'm thinking it is a bit more than that. It was tough wrestling that thing around and getting it onto the pier.

Overall, I'd say it is holding up well. I found a few issues to resolve, and some deeper exploratory surgery to perform as below.

Here are my thoughts so far:

The Hounds:

Configured with Bronze thimbles on a large stainless shackle. Zero wear on the shackle or the tang embedded in the mast. Thimbles are shot and need to be replaced. One is cracked badly. I'm debating whether I can splice eyes directly to the shackle....



The Tang

The tang embedded in the mast looks great, though there is an area just below it that looks suspect. I will grind this out and see what's what. And then re-glass if necessary and rebed it in 4200.



The Spreaders

The spreader tips are in fine shape, though I will be changing the hardware. I will keep the inner eye, and recess it, and dispense with the outer "eye" altogether. I will replace it with some 1.5mm spectra seizing routed. The tips will be rounded and smoothed out. (the upper spreaders damaged my new jib this season while sheeted in tight....) I hope to further mitigate that issue, by shortening the upper spreaders by about 3 inches.



All thoughtful comments are solicited, and I will keep this thread updated if folks are interested. Thanks, paxfish
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Old 27-10-2016, 12:42   #6
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Re: Storing a wooden mast for the winter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paxfish View Post
Thanks for the detailed and very helpful response. The local Multihull association took all the specifications, and without a spinnaker, the boat rates with an F-28 w/spinnaker. If I race with a spinnaker, it is going to rate quite a bit higher. same rough dimensions - 28 feet long, 20 feet wide, 2800 pounds and 550 sq ft sail upwind with the blade jib.

I do have the plans and they call for an alloy spar. This wooden spar was right up the builder's alley I guess (he is a fine carpenter.)

3 buddies came over last evening and we dropped this beastie. I had estimated the spar to be about 200 pounds. Now I'm thinking it is a bit more than that. It was tough wrestling that thing around and getting it onto the pier.
Much of the weight is likely due to the spar's being almost fully self contained, in that it has integral shrouds to take up much of the loads on it due to it being a rotating unit. Whereas were it a conventional deck stepped arangement, the supporting wires & structure would be lighter in construction since the loads would be lower, from them being led at more favorable angles.

Overall, I'd say it is holding up well. I found a few issues to resolve, and some deeper exploratory surgery to perform as below.

Here are my thoughts so far:

The Hounds:

Configured with Bronze thimbles on a large stainless shackle. Zero wear on the shackle or the tang embedded in the mast. Thimbles are shot and need to be replaced. One is cracked badly. I'm debating whether I can splice eyes directly to the shackle....
Yeah, the splicing thing is one which would require the call of an expert. And again, I'm concerned about non-visible wear on the other bits, especially as they're stainless, & thus subject to work hardening. Plus, the shackle (pin) isn't well supported, & it's point loaded where it meets the nose/beak.



The Tang

The tang embedded in the mast looks great, though there is an area just below it that looks suspect. I will grind this out and see what's what. And then re-glass if necessary and rebed it in 4200.
This is the part which I called a beak/nose, & was thinking that it would be worth having X-rayed, since so much of it is buried within the spar. So that an X-ray, or similar would be the only way to get a good look at it, short of pulling the whole thing. Which would be major surgery.

Some boats have external chafe patches built onto the surface of the mast around these fittings, using Kevlar or even Stainless. And this looks pretty, while also providing a high wear, super slippery bearing surface.



The Spreaders

The spreader tips are in fine shape, though I will be changing the hardware. I will keep the inner eye, and recess it, and dispense with the outer "eye" altogether. I will replace it with some 1.5mm spectra seizing routed. The tips will be rounded and smoothed out. (the upper spreaders damaged my new jib this season while sheeted in tight....) I hope to further mitigate that issue, by shortening the upper spreaders by about 3 inches.
I'd also look into building a composite tip piece. Or having one machined out of stainless or Ti which has a more sail friendly profile. Something resembling a half moon in cross section, with a wide, rounded tip.

I'm not wild about the Spectra lashing idea, as it would involve drilling through the spreader tip, thus weakening it. Or at least that's how I read your wanting to build it.


All thoughtful comments are solicited, and I will keep this thread updated if folks are interested. Thanks, paxfish
I'll try & throw some pics up later of a few other ways I've seen of these kinds of things being done. But there are a lot of options out there in terms of how to build the connection points for the shrouds & such.

Also, you could take the headstay (& other shrouds) to a rigging shop & ask them their opinion on it's level of wear. Since it's common for Spectra to fuzz up quite a bit with little to no appreciable loss in strength. Some rigging bits look quite atrocious, but are fully viable, with years of life left in them.
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