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Old 19-08-2006, 06:33   #1
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steering

thinking of all the ways that i could set up my steering for my cat and i was just wondering whether any one has used that morse? cable steering that they use for runabout steering? this would seem to ba a relatively cheap easy way to your helm connected to your rudders
sean
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Old 19-08-2006, 08:28   #2
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When you are connecting the steering, you need to ensure that you set up an ackerman system, such that when turning to port, the port rudder does not turn as far as the stbd one. This helps to eliminate a skid on the turn. (This is also done on cars, so to see what I mean, go and put some considerable turn on the wheel and then compare the two front tyre positions).

My cat has a solid bar between the rudders, this connects to a pivot point attached to a bar from the rudder, but the pivot point is about 5cm towards the centre of the stern, thus creating the geometry.

One of the rudders has a quadrant which is connected by wire to the wheel.

It is possible to get a morse steering system that attaches inside the transom under the outboard, rather than through the pivot tube. You can even get a hydraulic system to do the same. I dont see thatthere would be a problem doing that.

I have also seen a couple of cats which have set up two hydraulic systems, one for each rudder,
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Old 19-08-2006, 19:09   #3
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i am going to have a bar connecting the two rudders together, i was just thinking of having an easy setup to conect my steering wheel to this bar, now i can do this with hydraulics(expensive),ropes involves sheaves and other things not sure of expense, or morse steering about 300$
so does any one use morse to connect their wheel to their rudder
sean
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Old 19-08-2006, 20:00   #4
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I just recently installed a hydraulic steering system in my Mono and took a 3 week cruise. I'm in Love :kissy:

I'll never go back to a tiller. Steering, tacking and changing gears became so EZ it was like heaven. Although , If I want to go back to a tiller I just install the tiller arm, turn a knob, and I'm back in business.

I bought the 54" wheel so when I'm heeling I just sit on the high side and steer, you won't have that situation with a Cat. When I want to tach, I release the jib sheet, spin the wheel, pull in the other jib sheet tight and then spin the wheel back to straighten her up. A perfect tack all single handed. In the three weeks out I didn't even use the auto pilot................_/)
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Old 20-08-2006, 02:47   #5
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The big drawback of using a morse steering system is that you will be restricted to an autopilot that works from the wheel only.
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Old 20-08-2006, 03:03   #6
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this is another question i have been pondering as my wheel is only effectively moving the steering bar which is in turn connected to two small tillers that connect to my rudders can i use a tiller autopilot instead of a wheel autopilot? they are cheaper and it would seem to me more logical as this way it is directly affecting the steering as opposed to indirectly with the wheel, i was thinking i could mount it on one my tillers which are under my rear steps
sean
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Old 20-08-2006, 03:19   #7
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The only way to use a tiller autopilot would be to disconnect the morse steering. IMHO this is a bad solution, that would eventually bite you big time.
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Old 20-08-2006, 11:28   #8
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On my hyd. steering I have a lever that's mounted in the aft cockpit that's attached to a valve. By opening the valve the hyd. steering bypasses and this still allows me to use the old tiller system and the old auto pilot if I choose to. I tried it out once just to make sure it worked, and all went well!

The problem with cables and chains is it causes more movement restrictions which puts more load on the tiller auto pilots.

A hyd. cylinder set up with the proper porting has very little restriction. The oil just goes in a circle. It may slow down the manual use of the tiller but auto pilots don't move that fast.............................._/)



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Old 20-08-2006, 13:17   #9
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Del, what a beautiful installation. Top marks mate. That is pure art. I wish some pro's would install like that.
Questionthough. So this valve, does it just tie the line from each side of the ram together so as you have a "circle"??? I don't have one and should fit one I guess. But then, I don't have an emergency tiller yet either. Oh joy, there's another job. I have a square on top of the russer shaft so as a tiller could be fitted, so that's the hard part of the battle done.
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Old 20-08-2006, 14:20   #10
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Yeah, it was quite the job, crawling into the transom back and forth installing everything. Had to use a resperator and a blower to lay in the fiberglass over the cylinder mount, a confinded space.

This is part of what I do for the City, installing hyd. systems in the big rigs, so to pay my bills and get boat unites. I had to do all the math and build all the brackets to mount the system. The fun part was trying to find all the non-corrosive fittings that were properly rated and sized. As it was I had to re-machine a couple fittings to fit in the back of the pump. There was NO combination that would work.

But to get to your question. If you look at the right side of the valve you can see where it goes thru the bulkhead. This is for the handle that goes into the cockpit. What this actually is, is a safety valve so if the rudder gets overloaded it will bypass automaticly avoiding any damage to the system. And it comes with a fitting to open it manually.


http://www.kobelt.com/7020_cut_sheet.html

You would split both lines and add it in the middle. Other steering manufacturers may have something simular.




Goto the photo Gallery (Yacht Maintenance & ) I'm down loading some pics of the whole system. I seem to be having trouble getting whole pic's #*&%^ ...................................._/)
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Old 20-08-2006, 22:00   #11
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I have a Morse hydraulic steering system but it lacks a bypass valve and I have wanted to add one. My boat is a center cockpit so the pump is 20 feet away from the ram in the stern. Does the location of the bypass valve matter all that much. My reason for wanting this is in case of steering failure but even more so that the trimtab winvane can work the rudder with the least amount of friction. The valve would have to be near the steering pedestal for quick reingagment.
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Old 21-08-2006, 06:26   #12
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also does anyone use that solid rod steering that small powerboats use, just trying to examine the options and a friend mentioned this
sean
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Old 21-08-2006, 11:13   #13
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I have a morse system with the solid rod going through the pivot tube of my outboard. (I have a diesel outboard 27 hp), rather than having a wheel to control, I just have a single handle with a spinner on it like a winch handle, and can gain some benefit for berthing by steering the outboard. Lack of space restricts movement to about 20 degrees either side, but in low wind, that enables me to spin the boat around easily.
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Old 21-08-2006, 13:16   #14
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Steve R,

The closer the valve to the cylinder the better. But, if your hyd. lines are large enough (non-restrictive) it shouldn't be a problem. The object is not to restrict the flow pattern. All your fittings and lines should be a size larger or more then the size of your cyl. in/outlets. Even the length of your lines can start a flow restriction.

And all of the line should be hard lines (secured) except a flex area needed for movement of the cylinder. In the picture where the cyl. lines are on a pad, are secured now at the elbows.

I don't know if Morse/Teleflex offers a bypass valve but I'm sure the Kolbelt would adapt. There may be some out there in the hydraulic industry but they'd be made of steel. The Kolbelts are preset to 1500 psi.
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Old 21-08-2006, 13:55   #15
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Thanks for the data on the hydraulic systems. I have not had one in a boat, and have certainly learnt a lot from this. The one thing that is missing in your diagrams is how you include a hydraulic control from the autopilot?

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