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Old 11-10-2015, 08:57   #31
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Re: Starting With Mono or Multi-hull?

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Originally Posted by Kinta Ray View Post
thomm225
"I agree with most of what you are saying except the first paragraph, and maybe that's because I now have an old full keel Bristol with a 19.75' waterline and 4' draft. If I had a fin keel monohull with a 27' plus water line and 6' draft, I may agree with that statement, this old Bristol may point somewhere like 75 degrees maybe off the wind. Usually it's more like 90 degrees plus when you get into the 5'-6' waves"

LOL, sounds a bit like my first cruising catamaran back in 1977. 36 ft, Ply construction, wooden mast, galvanized rigging, fixed keels and a 15hp outboard that only worked 50% of the time but hell was it fun and it sure did teach me heaps about sailing. It used to point at about 60 degs but hey you get used to compromising don't you. First cruise was from Brisbane to Cairns and back approx 2000 nm with only dead reckoning navigation and a 27 Mhz radio all without any problems except for that damm outboard. I don't know your Bristol but I must admit when I was recommending a mono I was thinking of one of the more modern designs that do point well. I also have a feeling that you may be exaggerating your boats lack of performance just a little.
Well, the Bristol weighs about 6600 lbs with less sail area than my last Nacra Catamaran which weighed 300lbs. That catamaran also had 4' daggerboards and a very high aspect ratio main. (plus a spinnaker. I even bought a jib for it for distance races. It's was a single hander beachcat)

More on the Bristol 27: Disp/Len 382.47. SA/Disp 14.28. It's not a pointing machine. Boom length 12.2'

But

when the wind and waves get up and you have room it heels over maybe 25 degrees, stays there and sails steady.

Most full keel boats don't point too well, but I can live with it since I'm not racing and not cruising long distance yet. My "voyages" are 50-150 miles on weekends and vacations

BRISTOL 27 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
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Old 13-10-2015, 09:34   #32
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Re: Starting With Mono or Multi-hull?

I am no expert by any means. But as I move from day sailors to open water cruising boats, this question has come to mind many times.

From all I have read, multi-hull boats are roughly twice as fast as mono-hull. They also have lots more living space, but its easy to loose some of that weight advantage by filling the space with too much junk.

I have asked myself, which do I enjoy more. The trip itself or the destinations? To some degree, we all love sailing, but as a general rule, if you are simply trying to get somewhere, go multi-hull. If getting there is a major part of your enjoyment, buy a mono-hull.

I realize this is a simplistic view, but it might help.

Also, as one person mentioned, a lot of time is spent motoring. At least close to shore. I have to say, this is where my Mac 26x has one hell of an advantage. It doesn't really suck gas all that badly but will easily cruise at 20 knots (the boat has been to 30 MPH with its 115 HP Merc). If getting there is important, this boat really excels at that. And it sails pretty decent as well, especially in light air thanks to its light weight although there is a lot of boat above the waterline and this too has its effect.

As more people move toward multi-hulls because of their much improved performance (America cup boats too), used mono-hulls will continue to drop in price making them very attractive for people that prefer that type of sailing. A point that has not been lost on me considering I am entering my twilight years. My ability to react to things quickly is admittedly in decline. Yet another consideration in the decision.

The point is, it comes down to preference and personal capability. As many have stated, it pays to go out on the boats and try them out to see what works for you. And if your preferences seem to wander between different types of boats, why not buy multiple boats? :-)
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Old 13-10-2015, 16:10   #33
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Re: Starting With Mono or Multi-hull?

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Originally Posted by hsi88 View Post
I am no expert by any means. But as I move from day sailors to open water cruising boats, this question has come to mind many times.

From all I have read, multi-hull boats are roughly twice as fast as mono-hull. They also have lots more living space, but its easy to loose some of that weight advantage by filling the space with too much junk.
Don't believe all you read

A multihull may be "twice as fast" as a similar waterline length monohull on certain points of sail under certain wind and wave conditions, but in practice there is not a great deal of difference in all round performance between comparable cruising multihulls and monohulls.

I love getting 10+ knots on a reach in good conditions in my cat - but it's not so wonderful trying to make headway under sail when beating to weather in rough conditions.
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Old 13-10-2015, 16:51   #34
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Re: Starting With Mono or Multi-hull?

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Long-time sailboaters look old for their age. Assuming you don't smoke or sun bathe, don't do it for more than 15 years.
Do you mean that I'm an overstayer having sailed since I was 10 and still a happy sailor at 76?
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Old 13-10-2015, 17:12   #35
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Re: Starting With Mono or Multi-hull?

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Don't believe all you read

A multihull may be "twice as fast" as a similar waterline length monohull on certain points of sail under certain wind and wave conditions, but in practice there is not a great deal of difference in all round performance between comparable cruising multihulls and monohulls.

I love getting 10+ knots on a reach in good conditions in my cat - but it's not so wonderful trying to make headway under sail when beating to weather in rough conditions.
Taking the grandkids for a picnic to a sheltered bay 10 miles away, we motored directly into the wind at around 6 knots without sailing. A racing type catamaran on a day sail about 1 metre shorter than us crossed tacks with us every time. Sometimes just in front sometimes just behind. We arrived after perhaps a dozen crossings at exactly the same time within 30 seconds. They were having a great sail in the 15 knot breeze at perhaps up to 15 knots or more.

That doesn't prove anything except the speed they were going to windward ie VMG. Sailing we would have got there later but with fewer tacks than them, in our reasonably fast monohull. We would have been drier too. They would have been having more fun. They put a tarpaulin over their boom and picnicked on their trampoline. We had a nice cabin to get into. We are grandparents. They were young and with their girlfriends.
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Old 15-09-2017, 13:24   #36
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Re: Starting With Mono or Multi-hull?

Hello all!

We plan to sail the Caribbean sea and are wondering if somebody got experiences sailing and mooring in Belize (Cay Caulker...)?

Our draft: 5.6'! (Ericson 36' Cutter:-).

Thank you so much for any background and advice...
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Old 15-09-2017, 13:34   #37
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Re: Starting With Mono or Multi-hull?

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Hello all!

We plan to sail the Caribbean sea and are wondering if somebody got experiences sailing and mooring in Belize (Cay Caulker...)?

Our draft: 5.6'! (Ericson 36' Cutter:-).

Thank you so much for any background and advice...
Yes, you can cruise N Belize (N of Belize City, including Caye Caulker) with a 5'6" draft, but you will be quite close to the bottom much of the time. South of Belize City is a much better cruising ground in my opinion and you wont be so close to the bottom as often.

There are no moorings at Caye Caulker, but there is a good anchorage.

Many years in Belize and the W Carib, be happy to answer any questions you have.


Suggestion: rather than tagging onto an unrelated thread, start a new thread with a relevant title...you will get more responses that way.
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Old 15-09-2017, 16:56   #38
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Re: Starting With Mono or Multi-hull?

THank you, Belizesailor.
Just opened a new thread

Tks
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Old 15-09-2017, 20:47   #39
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Re: starting with mono or multi-hull?

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Started at 37 finished at around 51years old.....
Almost 72 and still going...\\
I'd never go back to mono.
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Old 16-09-2017, 18:10   #40
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Re: Starting With Mono or Multi-hull?

My first consideration is one of survival when going to sea.
Thus evertime I choose a multihull with positive bouyancy.
When lets say in the ultimate disastorous situation where would you prefer your boat floating or at the bottom of the ocean as that huge weigth thing under monos drags them down pretty quick .
Are there any monos claiming positive bouyancy ?
I would check the specs of some of the production Cats too as they mainly aim their necessities towards land based comforts rather than sailing ability and their weight ratios have maybe crossed into the negitive bouyancy category.
Seek a performance cruiser as the owner/ builder will have thought through the weight issues .
Better to survive that disastour than become a missing at sea statistic .
Monos scary the crap out of me and with the Americans love of litigation I am surprised they are still allowed to be sold
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Old 16-09-2017, 19:24   #41
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Re: Starting With Mono or Multi-hull?

Well, we've had the ritual mono vs multi rants now, so lets think about what the op was really asking. I had the idea that he was a fairly inexperienced sailor, and was wondering about the rate of acquiring new skills with a new to him boat. He didn't really specify size IIRC, so I'm going to guess that he does not want a beach cat or a mono dinghy... he wants some sort of smallish cruising type boat that he can enjoy whilst advancing his skill in sailing.

OK, if the above is true, here is my take: I'd recommend a monohull. Why? Because the feedback is more perceptible in smallish monos. Heel angle is a great means of interpreting what is going on with your boat as you change trim parameters and as the wind speed and angle change on their own. The much discussed lack of heel on multis diminishes that means of evaluating boat balance, trim and wind conditions. Remember, this chap wants to learn, and IMO getting feedback. both tactile and observational, is how you learn when going through sailing evolutions.

Another aspect (and as a performance oriented sailor, this is counter intuitive to me): Small multis tend to be light and quick boats. This means that they accelerate rapidly, and this in turn means that the apparent wind changes rapidly as you sail along. This is great fun for the experienced sailor, but can be baffling to a novice who is trying to make sense out of sail trim. A typical 25+/- 5 foot mono is less rapid in responding to puffs, etc, and I think this makes interpretation of cause and effect of trim changes, etc, easier to grasp.

As one's skill level increases, the staid mono may become kinda boring. That's the time to consider what the next boat should be, and by then one has a better chance of making an informed decision, and a multi may well be the right move.

Jim
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Old 16-09-2017, 19:51   #42
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Re: Starting With Mono or Multi-hull?

Jim,

You've got some great points, seemingly lost in the thread.
While I prefer a multihull, it does not give anywhere as much feedback on sail trim or need to reef as much as a monohull.
Starting out with a big multihull, especially for one which performance is a built in important element is just asking for disaster.

Want to learn how to drive a car? Let's start with an open wheeled Formula 1 racer.

Same thing.
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Old 16-09-2017, 20:30   #43
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Re: Starting With Mono or Multi-hull?

It's a troll thread IMO. Original poster asks controversial but seemingly innocent question omitting crucial information like his budget. Posters ask the crucial question that would settle question. OP never answers question, while posters continue the crapfight. Classic troll behaviour.

I'll refrain from opining on the poster that bumped thread with utterly irreverent question. Thread should have been closed on first page.

Sorry, bit antsy today. I blame the boat and it's never ending demands for attention.
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Old 18-09-2017, 11:31   #44
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Re: Starting With Mono or Multi-hull?

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I have a little experience with sailing, and I have decided to purchase a boat. choosing between a used monohull and a used catamaran, has been a problem. I wonder if there is a more difficult learning curve with one or the other.
advice , please
For what it's worth, we purchased a 30' Catalina (monohull) as our first boat solely because it was within our price range and would best serve our needs. It's our 'practice' boat for the next several years before we 'upgrade' to a catamaran as our cruising/ liveaboard boat. We will have the opportunity to learn systems, make repairs, etc. We realize sailing dynamics are different between monos and multis, but we also intend on taking (and making) opportunities to sail on cats.
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Old 20-09-2017, 13:50   #45
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Re: Starting With Mono or Multi-hull?

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Jim,

You've got some great points, seemingly lost in the thread.
While I prefer a multihull, it does not give anywhere as much feedback on sail trim or need to reef as much as a monohull.
Starting out with a big multihull, especially for one which performance is a built in important element is just asking for disaster.

Want to learn how to drive a car? Let's start with an open wheeled Formula 1 racer.

Same thing.

I started with a 41ft cat, but certainly not a speed daemon. No disasters happened so far.
Personally I feel I have enough feedback for deciding to reef. But then I was never spoiled by tons of heeling feedback as I never sailed a monohull.


My suggestion: Start with what you love. If you don't mind heeling and prefer classic lines and wooden boats over ugly boxy plastic cats, just buy a mono. If you like flat level sailing and a view, buy a cat.
Whatever floats!
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