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Old 22-03-2015, 20:34   #106
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

You hold my beers and I'm there!!! Hey I screwed up in saying 8', I meat 8". Big difference.
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Old 22-03-2015, 20:40   #107
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

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You hold my beers and I'm there!!! Hey I screwed up in saying 8', I meat 8". Big difference.
I figured.

Oh, and if it looks in the drawing like the corners in the settee are going to be hard, they won't. They'll have some kind of radius. But probably like 4". I just send them that paintshop photo to remind them of what we talked about.
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Old 23-03-2015, 07:36   #108
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

Great minds Hugh : p Our last cat had the round settee, this has the squared and is super comfortable for kicking back. This is my morning coffee/ siesta etc spot. Square is much more practical than rounded. The radius is like the steps, so 1" or so.. No cracks yet
Also a great place to sleep on passage to be near the crew on watch. We usually sleep here or on the inside settee.
Turn your head to the right and you have a clear view ahead as well. There's no way I could have imagined or designed something this practical :d
Another real benefit is a practical place to keep night watches in low traffic areas such as mid Atlantic. I have the Raymarine plotter displayed on the iPad and can sit here and keep watch on radar, AIS, wind speed and direction, boat speed etc. I usually do that in normal conditions with a kitchen timer set every 15 mins when I will get up, scan the horizon, check sails and rigging etc. Click image for larger version

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Old 23-03-2015, 08:48   #109
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

Nice! Even with glimpses, can tell that's a gorgeous cat.
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Old 23-03-2015, 16:08   #110
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

Hugh, I was looking at the preliminary drawings and I have a couple of questions.

Do you know what is the width dimension of the aft beds?

In comparing the St Francis with a similar size Cat such as the Outremer 51, the Outremere doesn't have the middle forward berths. Instead, they put the forward berth in the hull. I'm trying to understand how the St Francis does the middle berths. Is it simply a matter of extending the middle cabin forward and having a smaller trampolin?

Is there storage under the forward beds or is it water immediately under it?

I am wondering if someone doesn't want the 4 cabin configuration but wants to keep the aft cabins, how useful would the forward berth space for something like an office or work room?

Thanks again for this thread! BB
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Old 23-03-2015, 16:25   #111
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

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Hugh, I was looking at the preliminary drawings and I have a couple of questions.

Do you know what is the width dimension of the aft beds?

In comparing the St Francis with a similar size Cat such as the Outremer 51, the Outremere doesn't have the middle forward berths. Instead, they put the forward berth in the hull. I'm trying to understand how the St Francis does the middle berths. Is it simply a matter of extending the middle cabin forward and having a smaller trampolin?

Is there storage under the forward beds or is it water immediately under it?

I am wondering if someone doesn't want the 4 cabin configuration but wants to keep the aft cabins, how useful would the forward berth space for something like an office or work room?

Thanks again for this thread! BB
The aft beds are standard double beds. 54" wide, I believe. I took measurements, but I don't have my notebook with me. If I remember correctly, the two forward bunks are both standard queen sizes (60" x 80"), and the aft bunks are the double sizes (54" x 72").


The forward berths are made available by having a smaller trampoline. Comparing the two side by side, you can see the difference:





No storage under the beds (it would be a pain to access, anyway. And the boat isn't lacking for storage. You'd have a hard time filling all the cubbies up).

Under the beds is the skin of the hull and then water, 30 or so inches beneath that. Just forward of the fwd berths are deck storage areas for sails, fenders, lines. Propane tanks are in the port deck compartment, and the anchor windlass is in the center hatch there.

If you didn't want the 4 staterooms, they could make whatever you like. I considered the same thing. I thought of turning the aft starboard stateroom into a workshop. On another boat, that was turned into a video editing room. And they've done a library for another customer.

One customer wanted an organ, which was built to slide out of the galley counter, I believe.

As for the forward rooms, I'm not sure how you would make that an office. The berth occupies a loft-like space, so you wouldn't want to put a desk up there. You could have them leave the berth out, use that for storage, and then have a desk built into the hull where the dresser is. You'd have a porthole looking out. That would be pretty nice. But you could probably do that and still keep the bed, just get rid of the steps leading up to the bed and change that to a ladder or something.
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Old 23-03-2015, 16:44   #112
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

Thanks Hugh. That makes sense. I will definitely try to make it to Anapolis if Wayfinder is there! It would be great to see it in person. Cheers, BB.
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Old 24-03-2015, 04:59   #113
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

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Thanks Hugh. That makes sense. I will definitely try to make it to Anapolis if Wayfinder is there! It would be great to see it in person. Cheers, BB.
Me too.. I think I remember Hugh you said completion June so am I correct in assuming Annapolis Spring 2016?
Its ok I think I just found the October 2015 dates so I'm assuming that...
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Old 24-03-2015, 05:13   #114
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

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Eh . . . I'm hesitant. I feel like the hp for the individual motors needs to get higher. Right now, you almost need to run both electric motors to cruise at appreciable speeds. In 5 years, they should be more powerful and even more reliable.
Hi Hugh... more questions!! Do you know what the range is with the engines? I was reading in cruising world that for long distance some people sacrifice some water for more diesel (you can always make more water with a water maker).. and I noticed the amount of water vs diesel on the St Francis is slightly skewed in favour of water storage?
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Old 24-03-2015, 06:08   #115
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

Yup! October of 2015, as long as everything goes to plan. If we have a really uncommonly early and nasty hurricane season, that would stop us from getting there. We'll be coming through the Caribbean in late August.

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Hi Hugh... more questions!! Do you know what the range is with the engines? I was reading in cruising world that for long distance some people sacrifice some water for more diesel (you can always make more water with a water maker).. and I noticed the amount of water vs diesel on the St Francis is slightly skewed in favour of water storage?
Yeah, there's something like 220 gallons of fuel and 350 gallons of water (or thereabouts). The 54hp Yanmars were burning a little over 1 gallon an hour and providing around 7 knots of boat speed (I think this was 2500 - 2800 rpms). I can verify this more after our delivery, as I'll keep good records for fuel curves.

The new boats will have the 57hp common rail Yanmars, which might be even more efficient (I'm expecting .85 - 1 gph @ 7 kts, but we'll see). All of this is while running on one engine, btw. And dependent on conditions.

So let's take a range from 6 kts made good to 7 kts made good. At the more conservative burn rate for the 57hp Yanmar, you'd hope to have anywhere from 1,320 nm to 1,540 nm in range under motor. At .85 gph, you would have a range of 1,552 nm - 1,811 nm.

Either way, the 220 gallons should net you a little more than 9 days of motoring, 24 hours of day.

I wouldn't want to carry more diesel than this, to be honest. That's enough to get you through some serious doldrums to the Marquesas, or to last an entire season in the Bahamas/Caribbean without needing to take on fuel (unless you insist on a timetable, rather than waiting on wind).

The water tanks on the SF50 are much larger than what I need for regular use. If I'm sitting at anchor, in clean water, I'll top them up with the watermaker so I don't have to run it often, and be able to rinse down the dinghy, water toys, myself, the deck, etc. But if I'm on a passage, I'll keep them a quarter full and run the watermaker more often. Just because the capacity is there doesn't mean I have to use it. Empty tanks are floatation and speed.

Incidentally, that's how I now think of empty staterooms. I used to think I HAD to get a 3-stateroom boat with an owner's hull. I couldn't imagine needing four staterooms, so it felt like a waste, which made me think of other uses for one of those rooms. And then I sailed around on a FP that had five staterooms. There was just one person living aboard! And I realized that empty staterooms are a good thing. It's space you aren't using up on other stuff. There's no weight there, just floatation and speed. It got me over the feeling that I needed to maximize usable space just so I could fill it with "stuff."

Also: Staying aboard the SF50, I found the master's accommodations to be as generous as any owner's hull. Many owners' hulls have a lot of walkway with a weird bench there that I never understood. Would you ever actually sit on that thing? Why? There's nothing to look at or see down there. So you end up with a stateroom in the stern and a head in the bow and a lot of hallway between. I quickly got over the idea. It was a big hang-up for me, and it kept me from looking at a lot of other good options in catamarans (a lot of 4-stateroom boats I dismissed as "charter" boats that I now realize would have suited me perfectly).
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Old 24-03-2015, 06:50   #116
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

I forgot to account for running the generator with those estimates, and to be really conservative, I ran the numbers again looking at a 1.3 gph burn rate, and with these additions, you're looking at 7.5 - 8 days of non-stop motoring, and a range of roughly 1,050 to 1,200 nm.

That's plenty for getting anywhere. I personally wouldn't add bladders anywhere, but if you wanted to carry more fuel, you could. The forward lockers and the transom steps have copious space. I'd rather not have the weight onboard, frankly, and put light-air sails up or take a dip and clean the bottom while I wait on wind.
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Old 24-03-2015, 07:12   #117
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

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Many owners' hulls have a lot of walkway with a weird bench there that I never understood. Would you ever actually sit on that thing? Why? There's nothing to look at or see down there.
Ha ha ha... when we saw those benches my wife said... "look, it has a perfect bench to accumulate dirty laundry and all the other stuff you're to lazy to put away."
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Old 24-03-2015, 07:59   #118
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

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Ha ha ha... when we saw those benches my wife said... "look, it has a perfect bench to accumulate dirty laundry and all the other stuff you're to lazy to put away."
Oh, man, you're right! That's totally what I would do with the space.

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Old 24-03-2015, 08:18   #119
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

Haha ok you caught meClick image for larger version

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But to tell the truth I'd prefer the owners version purely because we don't need 4 berths or 4 heads and the owners shower and vanity areas are pretty awesome. Actually even in that pic the storage area is much more than we would have in a standard berth compartment, with lots of drawers, shelving, cupboards and storage under the settee. I've probably sat on the settee for 10 minutes total in the last year when I occasionally put socks on Also the open space feel is nice from the bed.
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Old 24-03-2015, 08:27   #120
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

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Haha ok you caught meAttachment 99345
But to tell the truth I'd prefer the owners version purely because we don't need 4 berths or 4 heads and the owners shower and vanity areas are pretty awesome. Actually even in that pic the storage area is much more than we would have in a standard berth compartment, with lots of drawers, shelving, cupboards and storage under the settee. I've probably sat on the settee for 10 minutes total in the last year when I occasionally put socks on Also the open space feel is nice from the bed.
Socks? Not sure what you're talking about. Please elaborate!

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