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Old 11-03-2015, 16:14   #31
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

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I cannot find it to save my life but i rented a Paddle board once that actually split into two pieces in the middle. That way you would be able to get more than one in there.
Do you smoke crack often

No, really, welcome to the forum. If you are referencing someone else's post what you should do is hit the "quote" button on their post and then it will make sense what you write.
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Old 13-03-2015, 15:58   #32
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

Haha, he's referencing Hugh's web site. Nice site btw and congrats on the new boat Hugh. A couple of points you mentioned on the fit out. Good idea with the squared sofas. Much more practical than rounded and better looking.
Bath, I'd keep it. Our shower is a bit of a pain underway with water sloshing around. I'd love to have the option of a 12" deep bath to contain it and have the occasional bath. Would also be a convenient place to do laundry if you didn't have a washing machine, which I guess you will have. Add some spa jets!
Paddle board storage.. To hard in their own lockers and taking up valuable space. In and out of lockers would be a pita I think. The back porch should have ample space next to the dinghy, or on top of davits. Ours either lives on the davits or floating next to the boat at anchor. Long passages we might deflate it and store it in a locker.
Nav desk sounds good. Make the seat super comfy with a backrest. Probably a dedicated leather office chair would be the best option. I wonder if they make double size ones... Make it comfortable enough to semi snooze on night watches, somewhere to lean your head. Same goes for the helm seat !
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Old 13-03-2015, 16:21   #33
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

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Originally Posted by monte View Post
Haha, he's referencing Hugh's web site. Nice site btw and congrats on the new boat Hugh. A couple of points you mentioned on the fit out. Good idea with the squared sofas. Much more practical than rounded and better looking.
Bath, I'd keep it. Our shower is a bit of a pain underway with water sloshing around. I'd love to have the option of a 12" deep bath to contain it and have the occasional bath. Would also be a convenient place to do laundry if you didn't have a washing machine, which I guess you will have. Add some spa jets!
Paddle board storage.. To hard in their own lockers and taking up valuable space. In and out of lockers would be a pita I think. The back porch should have ample space next to the dinghy, or on top of davits. Ours either lives on the davits or floating next to the boat at anchor. Long passages we might deflate it and store it in a locker.
Nav desk sounds good. Make the seat super comfy with a backrest. Probably a dedicated leather office chair would be the best option. I wonder if they make double size ones... Make it comfortable enough to semi snooze on night watches, somewhere to lean your head. Same goes for the helm seat !
Yeah, I was torn about the bath. We will have a washing machine (no dryer).

The nav seat is going to be a double-wide seat with a backrest. I want it so both of us can sit and go over waypoints or weather or what-not. No snoozing on watches! And anyway, the saloon table will lower into a bed, with a cushion to fill the space, and I have a feeling we'll leave it in that configuration a lot. Great for watching movies on rainy days and for sleeping while off-watch, to be close to the helm.

For the helm seat, I'm looking at a STIDD, but the rep has been slow to respond, so it might not get built in time. Might have to add that in at a later date.
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Old 13-03-2015, 22:32   #34
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

Saloon/galley on the St Francis 50 is a real positive with the design.

Foward facing nav station/office in saloon being able to look out at your anchorage is ideal. I personally would not use the idea of an office down in the owners hull.

Consider installing your water maker and pumps in a easily accessable cupboard on the inside hull. Just open cupboard an everything is accessed.
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Old 17-03-2015, 05:28   #35
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

An update with the portholes, as I've heard from several people interested in these changes. I made a post on my blog about it, but I'll share the pics here so you don't have to click over.

Here's a look at an earlier St. Francis. Note the layout of the portholes:



Here is what hull #19, WAYFINDER, will look like:



Starting at the aft end of the boat, you have a large fixed porthole with a bit of a slant. This porthole was also on hull #18, Guinevere. It's right beside the aft bunk and lets in a ton of light. Figo, the first mate, slept in this bunk during the delivery and raved about the view. It was this porthole that got me thinking about changes to the forward master cabins, which led to some of the changes discussed here.

Moving forward, you have a small opening porthole in the aft head. Forward of this are the large twin fixed portholes that make this a different boat down below. One of these is right over the drop-in freezer on the port side and over a dresser of drawers on the starboard side. No cupboard or storage was lost with this porthole. The large porthole closer to the bow required giving up a small amount of storage space, but there is more than enough in the St. Francis. What this forward-most fixed porthole means is being able to see out to the horizon from the athwartship forward berths.

And then you have another opening porthole in the forward head to complete the porthole layout. In addition to this porthole, you also have a large opening hatch on the inside of the hulls that you can't see here. These are your escape hatches, and a lot more functional than escape hatches tucked under stairways. I stayed in the port forward cabin, and I used this hatch for ventilation while showering and while sleeping at night. You could dive out of the thing and into the water if you wanted.

One more difference to note between the two pictures above is the saloon windows. In Wayfinder, and all the 50s going forward, the windows will appear to wrap around the entire coach roof. And note the after end of the window, where it points back toward the St. Francis logo. In the new hulls, this window has been expanded to use up every inch of the coach roof. The difference inside will be immense, as it will bring the window all the way back to the sink, so you can gaze out at the sea while doing dishes or preparing a meal.

A month from now, I'll be at the yard in St. Francis, and I should be able to get photos from inside the hull (the deck and hull will be joined by then), so we can see how these openings will look in practice.
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Old 17-03-2015, 06:30   #36
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

Hugh, I too would suggest retaining the bath tub. Our boat has one and while I was initially quite dubious about the benefits (at home, I only shower and haven't taken a bath in decades), I am now a convert: a passage this year from Long Island to Bermuda in June on a boat without a bath tub convinced me of the benefits. Due to boisterous conditions we were unable to shower for 5 days (and we could not really use the stern shower to rinse off as it was quite cool for most of the passage). Cleanliness may not be next to godliness, but it is certainly nice - and healthy. En route I had taken a wave in the cockpit without my weather gear">foul weather gear fully done up and salt water got down into my overalls. After clearing in at St Geoge I was walking up the hill to the Dinghy Club in order to use thsir showers and felt discomfort in my groin. Yes, some salt water sores precisely where you don't want them! (I know, I should have had my foulies done up properly and once soaked, should have at least sponge bathed the salt off in that area at least). Still, a bath would have been very nice!

Brad
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Old 17-03-2015, 08:13   #37
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

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Hugh, I too would suggest retaining the bath tub. Our boat has one and while I was initially quite dubious about the benefits (at home, I only shower and haven't taken a bath in decades), I am now a convert: a passage this year from Long Island to Bermuda in June on a boat without a bath tub convinced me of the benefits. Due to boisterous conditions we were unable to shower for 5 days (and we could not really use the stern shower to rinse off as it was quite cool for most of the passage). Cleanliness may not be next to godliness, but it is certainly nice - and healthy. En route I had taken a wave in the cockpit without my foul weather gear fully done up and salt water got down into my overalls. After clearing in at St Geoge I was walking up the hill to the Dinghy Club in order to use thsir showers and felt discomfort in my groin. Yes, some salt water sores precisely where you don't want them! (I know, I should have had my foulies done up properly and once soaked, should have at least sponge bathed the salt off in that area at least). Still, a bath would have been very nice!

Brad
This has been my primary concern as well, being able to bathe in rough conditions. I'm having a teak seat installed in the shower, with a flexible hose for the spigot, so we can shower "sitting down." I'm hoping that alleviates the concern.
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Old 17-03-2015, 08:16   #38
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

Another update:

We are going forward with squaring up the settee on both sides, so it will have corners rather than curves. I find this much more amenable to lounging with your feet out. The space being cut away is not used for storage of any sort. I think when the builders see the advantages and hear the feedback at the boat show, this will be something they do with more of their future St. Francis 50s.

Also: It appears we are going to be able to duplicate the paddleboard compartment design from the port side and have the same setup on the starboard side. So two paddleboard garages, right there at the swim steps.





In order to create the paddleboard compartment on the starboard side, the step that ends behind the helm seat will be extended to the saloon bulkhead. This is actually something I wanted to do anyway, as it gives my wife a place to step to the coaming (and a place to rest a foot while seated).



The line bin on the starboard side will be made 5 inches shallower, just like on the port side. And the nose of the paddleboard will extend through the bulkhead and into a cabinet that houses the TV, which is empty save for the running of some wires. So no other internal modifications will be necessary.
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Old 17-03-2015, 15:56   #39
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

Congratulations Hugh. Some great ideas for living aboard... my wife asked me to ask where the ironing board goes as being a newbie I have no idea...??
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Old 17-03-2015, 16:32   #40
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

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Congratulations Hugh. Some great ideas for living aboard... my wife asked me to ask where the ironing board goes as being a newbie I have no idea...??
Wherever you want it.

Some boats have them built on the wall where they fold down. Or you stow one away and unfold it in the saloon. Personally, I won't even carry one. In an emergency, I'll iron on a towel on the corian countertop. I'd guess I have call for one every other year.
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Old 17-03-2015, 16:45   #41
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

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We are going forward with squaring up the settee on both sides, so it will have corners rather than curves. I find this much more amenable to lounging with your feet out.
It may not make much difference in this case, unless it does, but generally, from an engineering standpoint, squaring corners vs radius'd corners introduces stress risers and a weaker structural result. Stresses are concentrated at the "corners" and the higher stresses are ultimately revealed later by cracks. All the stresses come together at the corners rather than being more distributed along the radius. Structurally, rounded corners are good, corners are bad. Structural Engineering 101. Fiberglass is an excellent homogeneous material for demonstrating this phenomena.

The Ancients learned this early on as revealed by the Arches of Antiquity...

Unless these corners are reinforced, cracks may appear at their root. Maybe they won't. Pick yer poison - better foot lounging or potential cracks. - not to mention the dirt that will collect at the corners.

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Old 17-03-2015, 16:49   #42
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

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It may not make much difference in this case, unless it does, but generally, from an engineering standpoint, squaring corners vs radius'd corners introduces stress risers and a weaker structural result. Stresses are concentrated at the "corners" and the higher stresses are ultimately revealed later by cracks. All the stresses come together at the corners rather than being more distributed along the radius. Structurally, rounded corners are good, corners are bad. Structural Engineering 101. Fiberglass is an excellent homogeneous material for demonstrating this phenomena.

The Ancients learned this early on as revealed by the Arches of Antiquity...

Unless these corners are reinforced, cracks may appear at their root. Maybe they won't. Pick yer poison - better foot lounging or potential cracks. - not to mention the dirt that will collect at the corners.

Dave
I'll have them round off all the steps and make the hatches circles to compensate.
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Old 17-03-2015, 16:56   #43
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

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I'll have them round off all the steps and make the hatches circles to compensate.
I'm sure you've probably been told this before but Ted Clements on the Antares website has some very interesting opinions on good design that are worth reading. Personally I like the Antares 44i but since your thread I've been looking at the St Francis more and more (mainly because of the many similarities that are either there or that can be included).
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Old 17-03-2015, 17:02   #44
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

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I'll have them round off all the steps and make the hatches circles to compensate.
Good luck with that! Maybe also increase the mast height to reduce the draft...

I got the message loud and clear - don't try to help since you know it all. Please forgive me.

Dave
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Old 17-03-2015, 17:40   #45
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

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I'm sure you've probably been told this before but Ted Clements on the Antares website has some very interesting opinions on good design that are worth reading. Personally I like the Antares 44i but since your thread I've been looking at the St Francis more and more (mainly because of the many similarities that are either there or that can be included).
They're both great boats. One is just larger, faster, less expensive, and will carry a larger tender in what feels like a safer manner. I've crawled through both, have sailed on a number of cats, and have my own ideas about the kind of cat I want.

I prefer saildrives. I prefer a galley up (if it has a wraparound counter and plenty of storage, which the St. Francis has in spades). I prefer hydraulic steering (proven tech that I'm comfortable repairing). And I really like being involved in the design and build process. Laying out the saloon is huge for me. I've never stepped into the perfect layout; so I'm getting to design it.

Even something as crazy as storage for two paddleboards, inside, not on the rails, is a big deal for me. That's my exercise. My favorite way of exploring. On a friend's boat, we had to strap the things to the rails, and that took time. Something to check before getting underway. And they got beat up pretty bad.

Other things I'm not sure every builder would've been able to accommodate:

A 24V system rather than a 12V system. This is huge for me. I've worked on a lot of boats over the years, and the robustness of a 24V system got me hooked. 24V winches, windlass, lights, instruments, etc. Really happy about this.

Lithium Ion batteries. 1,000W of solar. Choosing my own sailmaker. My own nav electronics. Laying out the nav station. Getting common rail Yanmars. Carrying a 13' RIB with a 40hp Yamaha.

All these are nice, but the biggest thing (literally) is that extra 6 feet added in the middle of the boat, which makes for an enormous difference in living space. To me, the St. Francis feels 10 feet longer.

Having said all that, I'd be happy on either boat. I'd be happy on a 27' monohull. I looked at a lot of cats, and spending a million bucks is a big deal to me, so I went with the boat that felt right. Not sure you can go wrong if you narrow it down to these proven designs and then go with the one that speaks to you.
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