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Old 29-01-2012, 17:38   #136
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pirate Re: Spirited 380 Lost in the Coral Sea

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Originally Posted by smj View Post
I never saw a life raft mentioned in the rescue. What I read is they went from their cat directly to a ship.
Conditions were not that bad then....
last rescue I went near of the Portuguese coast the crew were asked to abandon the boat for the raft for pick-up by ship.. dismasted and taking water.. mono.
they refused so a helicopter came out and winched em off...
Mind it was blowing hard out there...
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Old 29-01-2012, 17:51   #137
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Re: Spirited 380 Lost in the Coral Sea

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It was sad to hear of the loss of Minx as it was the first 380 launched and I had met with Jon before he departed offshore and been in touch with him a number of times since.

There has been considerable comment made about the design of the engine access hatches on the 380 and the impact they had on the loss of Minx. The original design of the engines hatches was difficult to seal and required the engines to be cut out to remove. A modified design improves access, but water proofing was still a problem.

Myself and other home builders (and susequently a commercial builder) came up with a redesign of the access hatch at one level and significantly easier to seal. I understand that Jon may have made some of these changes to Minx, but do not quote me on this.

I have sailed my 380 offshore and have had following seas run up the rear steps and over the top of the engine hatches. I have not had the engine bilge pumps start due to water ingress to the engine bays.

There are a number of prominent catamaran builders around the world who also have rear mounted engines with access at bridgdeck level, so do not bag the 380 unless you wish to include others in the context.

Jon made a decision to call for help after a number of days in a trying situation with the forecast expected to worsen and develop into a tropical cyclone which it did.

He lived to talk about it and that is what is important.

Peter
+1 Good post from someone who knows the vessel. The quality of the build by Stallion Marine was excellent for those who have not seen a vessel built by them. There certainly were some design issues with water entry into the machinery space and subsequently into other areas. Full details allowing further analysis are not available at this time.

There was no indication of structural issues however some apparent design faults the designer needed to address.

Lets wish Minx the best in recovering from this incident and hope the vessels is spotted and recovered before it makes it to Australia's East coast.

Cheers
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Old 29-01-2012, 17:52   #138
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Originally Posted by boatman61

Conditions were not that bad then....
last rescue I went near of the Portuguese coast the crew were asked to abandon the boat for the raft for pick-up by ship.. dismasted and taking water.. mono.
they refused so a helicopter came out and winched em off...
Mind it was blowing hard out there...
If I recall correctly Ramtha a Simpson designed cat was caught in the queens birthday storm in the Pacific. Winds over 70 kts And reports of waves over 70 feet. They were rescued of their boat onto a ship, no coast guard available so I guess it is possible.
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Old 29-01-2012, 17:56   #139
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Re: Spirited 380 Lost in the Coral Sea

cwyckham,

I would not want to undertake major engine repairs in heavy following seas, but on our trip to New Caledonia last year we had two engine incidents. One was a blocked fuel line which needed access to the engine bay, but in calm conditions so it was not a problem.

The other was a failed pump impeller part way between Noumea and Bundaberg which we waited until arrival to replace. Luckily we had two engines, so again it was not a problem.

Before undertaking an offshore passage, I replace all the filters, fuel and engine. Why the impeller failed, I do not know as it had less than 150 hrs use and should have been OK.

Peter
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Old 29-01-2012, 18:11   #140
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Re: Spirited 380 Lost in the Coral Sea

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Conditions were not that bad then....
But the combination of all the factors at the time of sea & wind conditions, threat of a cyclone, crew fatigue & fear and the vessel taking on considerable amounts of water led to the skipper of Minx making the decision to call for assistance which resulted in him & his crew being alive today to tell the full story when he is feeling up to it.

I, like everyone else, am very keen to know the full story behind the loss so lets give him the time to get into a better state of mind after losing his vessel which was uninsured.

Everyone has got their own point of view in relation to this but can I suggest that we try and hold off & give him some well deserved breathing space so that we don't discourage him from posting the full account behind the loss.
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Old 29-01-2012, 18:21   #141
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Re: Spirited 380 Lost in the Coral Sea

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cwyckham,

I would not want to undertake major engine repairs in heavy following seas, but on our trip to New Caledonia last year we had two engine incidents. One was a blocked fuel line which needed access to the engine bay, but in calm conditions so it was not a problem.

The other was a failed pump impeller part way between Noumea and Bundaberg which we waited until arrival to replace. Luckily we had two engines, so again it was not a problem.

Before undertaking an offshore passage, I replace all the filters, fuel and engine. Why the impeller failed, I do not know as it had less than 150 hrs use and should have been OK.

Peter
Thank you, Peter.

In my opinion, all boats have compromises. An engine cover that leaks badly in a following sea is just bad. However, you have addressed this and indicate that it is possible to modify the design so that it can take green water over it with minimal leakage.

The question of access is a different one. You rightly point out that there are two engines, so if one has issues in a following sea, you can proceed on the other, or use it to head up into the sea to work on the other. With two engines and sails, I would personally be willing to take the risks involved in having transom engine access. Heck, I'd also want to have a drogue, so I can always lay bow-on with the drogue and have good access to either engine.
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Old 30-01-2012, 00:15   #142
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Re: Spirited 380 Lost in the Coral Sea

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Conditions were not that bad then....
Maybe not, but no sails, no engines, boat taking on water, and a cyclone possibly heading your way... I wonder how many would opt NOT to move onto the ship?
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Old 30-01-2012, 01:10   #143
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Smart and wise move to seek rescue, when tired strange things happen and the did the right thing getting out of there!
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Old 30-01-2012, 07:16   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smj

If I recall correctly Ramtha a Simpson designed cat was caught in the queens birthday storm in the Pacific. Winds over 70 kts And reports of waves over 70 feet. They were rescued of their boat onto a ship, no coast guard available so I guess it is possible.
Actually, if my memory is still accurate, one of Ramtha's people had a very lucky escape from disaster when she was pulled thru the lifelines by the rescue line from the navy ship. Incurred chest injury but could have easily been worse.
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Old 30-01-2012, 07:31   #145
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Re: Spirited 380 Lost in the Coral Sea

Here is Bob Austin's account of the Queen's Birthday Storm

Multihull Dynamics, Inc. - News Article
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Old 31-01-2012, 01:10   #146
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Re: Spirited 380 Lost in the Coral Sea

An interesting read. How often do we hear the story of a boat abandoned only to be found floating after the storm has passed.
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Old 31-01-2012, 04:20   #147
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Re: Spirited 380 Lost in the Coral Sea

I wonder how many cats have been abandoned and then found upside down?
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Old 31-01-2012, 06:05   #148
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Re: Spirited 380 Lost in the Coral Sea

I don't know Sos - hardly relevant to this thread, but tell us about five or six examples to get us started. We all know of Richard Wood's Eclipse that was abandoned in horrific conditions - wait a minute, it was later found upright.

Anyway, just as there are examples of monos that sunk after being abandoned (and of some that remained afloat), I'm sure there must be examples of cats that have overturned after being abandoned (although off hand, I can't think of any). Regardless, how does this advance our discussion?

Brad
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Old 31-01-2012, 06:12   #149
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Re: Spirited 380 Lost in the Coral Sea

W e'er so sorry for the loss of your vessel and glad that you are now safe. It sounds like you gave it a good fight and used used sound judgement for your own well being. I hope that you are able to continue your cruising dream.
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Old 31-01-2012, 16:20   #150
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Re: Spirited 380 Lost in the Coral Sea

image attached doing the rounds, taken during the rescue. mild conditions, boat looks fine, genoa furled away neatly, mainsail tucked away in sailcover, storm jib is on inner forestay but not up??? boat floating fine??? hardly looks like a situation requiring abandomnent.
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