Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-06-2008, 14:11   #1
CF Adviser
Moderator Emeritus
 
TaoJones's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Montrose, Colorado
Posts: 9,850
Sphincter Factor . . .

Of course, one of the great appeals of multihull sailing is that high speeds are possible, but the reality is that cruising multihull vessels are generally overloaded, carry too-little canvas and are pretty much designed along the lines of "Built for comfort, not for speed." Still, cruising multihullers occasionally find themselves in just the right conditions to push the envelope, whether they want to or not:

* * * * *

"How High Can Your Cat Jump?

"June 4, 2008 Caribbean Sea



Little Wing sailing off St. Barth on New Year's Day '04. Has any Bob Perry designed boat sailed as fast as this 52-footer with a complete cruising interior?
Photo Latitude / Richard
2008 Latitude 38 Publishing Co., Inc.

"In the 10 or so years that John Haste of San Diego has owned his Bob Perry designed 52-ft cat Little Wing, he's sailed and raced her everywhere from Southern California to St. Martin in the West Indies. So he thought he was very familiar with the cat's speed potential.

" 'I remember reading a Morrelli & Melvin polar diagram for the speed targets of a cat of similar weight and dimensions to mine,' he writes. 'They predicted a top speed of 32 knots. Frankly, I found this a little hard to believe. Based on all our experience, we can hit 18 knots pretty easily, but it's been tough to get much over 20 knots. For example, until recently, our top speed was 23 knots in one of the Ha-Ha's we did. But that was done in a 37-knot gust when we were carrying 4,300 sq. ft. of sail.' "

* * * * *

For the rest of the story, go to:

Latitude 38 - The West's Premier Sailing & Marine Magazine

TaoJones
__________________

__________________
"Your vision becomes clear only when you look into your own heart. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks within, awakens."
Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961)
TaoJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2008, 11:11   #2
Registered User
 
Nordic cat's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denmark
Boat: FP Tobago 35
Posts: 721
He writes about bearing off when hard pressed, which results in this incredible speed. A good thing that the boat could handle this, probably not too many waves, otherwise a pitchpole could have been the result.

I prefer to head up when pressed, it's fast and an efficient way to slow down, start the engines and reef in good order.

Regards

Alan
__________________

__________________
Nordic cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2008, 11:21   #3
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wherever our boat is; Playa Zaragoza, Isla Margarita
Boat: 1994 Solaris Sunstream 40
Posts: 2,439
Thanks Tao - incredible number, even in a short burst, for a fully laden cruising cat. And while Bob Perry is often credited with designing the modern performance long-distance cruising monohull (the Valiant 40), I am pretty confident than none of his cruising monohulls have ever reached that speed (nor even the high teens the owner of Little Wing suggests he sees with some regularity).

One shouldn't generalize from a one-off situation, nonetheless it is interesting that Bob Perry, a designer who is almost exclusively associated with monohulls, can achieve that kind of performance in a cruising multihull.

Brad
__________________
Southern Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2008, 11:27   #4
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wherever our boat is; Playa Zaragoza, Isla Margarita
Boat: 1994 Solaris Sunstream 40
Posts: 2,439
Alan, you will get a debate about whether to head up, or off when overpowered in a cat. I agree with you in principle only if you are beating or close reaching and you are not already lifting the windward hull. In the latter case, the increased apparent wind and the centrifugal force of the turn to windward could turn things from bad to worse.

Regardless of how he got to that speed, the fact that he did so without damage to the rig or a capsize is still incredibly impressive in a boat of that size designed (and loaded) for cruising.

Brad

Brad
__________________
Southern Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2008, 12:36   #5
Registered User
 
Nordic cat's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denmark
Boat: FP Tobago 35
Posts: 721
I agree Brad.

The article says he was reaching, not what kind, so you're right. I still prefer heading up, it gets you out of danger faster, loosening sheets along the way.

Regards

Alan
__________________
Nordic cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2008, 20:50   #6
DtM
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Out of the Office
Posts: 908
Easing the sheets is the key if you head up.
__________________
DtM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2008, 22:04   #7
Marine Service Provider
 
Factor's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Corsair Dash MKII
Posts: 4,085
I prefer to bear off and use the resultant lowering of apparent wind. But each sailor must know his/her own boat.
__________________
Factor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2008, 22:06   #8
Registered User
 
db8us's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Pune, India
Boat: Lagoon 380S2
Posts: 74
Send a message via Yahoo to db8us
With a Parasailor up and on the atlantic surf i reached 17kn with a Lagoon 380S2. The vibration and sounds were amazing.
The autopilot could not steer out things, so i drove her manually. Wind was up to 7 in gusts

The sphincter factor was quite high

some pictures:
LinoCat auf dem Weg nach Portugal

Regards from India

Michael
__________________
db8us is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2008, 22:12   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Vancouver, Can.
Boat: Woods 40' catamaran
Posts: 277
15.4 knots in our Woods 40' catamaran. I was deliberately pushing it to see where the limit was. This was beam reaching in 25 knots of wind, with full main and genoa. If the bottom hadn't been so dirty, it would have gone at least 2 knots faster...

As it was the windward hull was about 1/3 out of the water and the lee bow was pushing down. Any sailor could tell that the boat was telling us that we were pushing it. I was holding the genoa sheet in my hand (the bigger sail on this boat), ready to blow it if we heeled more.

It didn't feel out of control at all. I had a brand new sailor on the tiller and she said the helm load was totally neutral.

So we eased sheets a bit, headed down a bit more, and dropped the hull down. 12 knots felt very safe, but a bit pedestrian... The boat regularly will hit 11 knots without effort, but it's a lot lighter than the typical condo cats.
__________________
Evan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2008, 15:20   #10
CF Adviser
Moderator Emeritus
 
TaoJones's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Montrose, Colorado
Posts: 9,850
From today's 'Lectronic Latitude, comes word that a few multi- sailors have responded to the original item in Wednesday's 'LecLat:

* * * * *

"Top Cruising Cat Speeds

"June 6, 2008 The Oceans of the World



Pete and Susan Wolcott's M&M 52 Kiapa, thanks to a fine design and light build, has no trouble hitting into the 20s.
Photo Courtesy Schooner Creek Boatworks
2008 Latitude 38 Publishing Co., Inc.

"At the end of Wednesday's 'Lectronic report on John Haste's San Diego-based Perry 52 cruising cat Little Wing hitting 29.5 knots under main and genoa in the Caribbean, we asked for other owners of cruising cats to report their top speeds."

* * * * *

For the rest of the story, go to:

Latitude 38 - The West's Premier Sailing & Marine Magazine

TaoJones
__________________
"Your vision becomes clear only when you look into your own heart. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks within, awakens."
Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961)
TaoJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 19:50   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
sandy daugherty's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: near Annapolis
Boat: PDQ 36 & Atlantic 42
Posts: 1,178
I don't think Bob Perry (of Perrydesigns) ever designed a cat. His reviews of cats are just a little to 'sniffy'. Brian Perry builds Perry cats in Australia (?) so there might be another Bob (cat) Perry.
__________________
sandy daugherty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 20:21   #12
CF Adviser
Moderator Emeritus
 
TaoJones's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Montrose, Colorado
Posts: 9,850
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandy daugherty View Post
I don't think Bob Perry (of Perrydesigns) ever designed a cat. His reviews of cats are just a little to 'sniffy'. Brian Perry builds Perry cats in Australia (?) so there might be another Bob (cat) Perry.
I'm not sure to whom you're referring when you write "Perrydesigns" but 'Lectronic Latitude was referring to Robert H. Perry of Robert H Perry Yachts Designers Inc. Home Page one of America's foremost naval architects.

TaoJones
__________________
"Your vision becomes clear only when you look into your own heart. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks within, awakens."
Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961)
TaoJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2008, 12:27   #13
Senior Cruiser
 
sandy daugherty's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: near Annapolis
Boat: PDQ 36 & Atlantic 42
Posts: 1,178
I left him a note.
__________________
sandy daugherty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2008, 10:28   #14
CF Adviser
Moderator Emeritus
 
TaoJones's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Montrose, Colorado
Posts: 9,850
This morning, I received a reply from Bob Perry to my inquiry about Little Wing, the catamaran that was the genesis of this thread. Here it is:

"Jack:
Yes, LITTLE WING was designed by me originally for a Seattle owner.
Bob Perry"

I found it hard to believe that Richard Spindler, publisher of Latitude 38, could be mistaken about this.

TaoJones
__________________
"Your vision becomes clear only when you look into your own heart. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks within, awakens."
Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961)
TaoJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2008, 14:50   #15
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wherever our boat is; Playa Zaragoza, Isla Margarita
Boat: 1994 Solaris Sunstream 40
Posts: 2,439
Nordicat and DtM, I share your preference for heading up while letting out the sheets (and wrote about the same in an earlier thread) when overpowered while beating or close reaching - and of course, this is precisely the situation where one is most likely to obtain excessive heeling. The only exception is, as I said, if you are flying a hull. In that case, I would think that that the centrifugal force of the turn and the immediate increase in apparent wind would only make things worse.

And Taojones, thanks for confirming that Robert Perry of Seattle was indeed the naval architect responsible for this catamaran. I note she has some front overhang which, of course, fits in with his preference for the same in monohulls designed as cruising boats.

Brad

Brad
__________________

__________________
Southern Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pucker Factor Canibul Off Topic Forum 6 01-05-2008 11:54
Question for Factor Joli Off Topic Forum 0 16-11-2007 07:32



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:50.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.