Small Liveaboard Cat Search - Page 2

Woods Designs · 18-02-2009, 13:12

By co incidence I got the following email from Erik Lerouge yesterday.

==================

"a French cat was lost in French caribbean just before Christmas.
Boat was an homebuilt 30 y/o Hobart 900. 9m x 4,50m, originally very light and not a bad performer.
She was "adapted" to voyaging in putting a double decker cabin which had some negative influence on the rig.
Boat was sailed by a family of 4. Needless to say that she was widely overloaded.
As it turned out, they found themselves in the lee of the islands and reported gales conditions. Most probaly a fresh tradewind quite frequent there. They found that they could not sail to windward in these conditions. Finally decking broke at the side decks, due to side wave impact and the had to abandon ship. Fortunately, the were rescued.
Although this is a structural issue, this is still of our concern in showing how an otherwise not too bad cat can be spoiled by its owner and sailed much above its design limits. This is relevent in giving a category, huge windage for its sail carrying ability made it impossible to sail upwind in what probably did not exceed F7/8 (enough to scare an inexperience family on a poor small boat). I know the original cat could do it!"
============================

I think you will find the Iroquois very small for a couple living on board - unless you are short. I cannot sit at the front of the saloon even though I am only 1.75m tall.

Loading capacity will be a problem as well. I know people who cruise them and live onboard but the comfort level is usually low and may be too low for you.

Despite what others have said the Iroquois has one of the worst capsize record ever. The 32ft version just had lengthened sterns, no other real changes. I know the boat for sale in BC, but, because of the exchange rates, I would think a UK Iroquois would be a lot cheaper.

Hope you find the boat of your dreams

Richard Woods of Woods Designs, currently cruising his 34ft Romany in the Bahamas (even though it is for sale)

Woods Designs Sailing Catamarans

djeeke · 18-02-2009, 13:57

Yup, coincidence, but the world is smaller than one thinks...

That Hobart seemed to have had major reconstructions done !
I would never go for something like this...
It is also mentioned the original cat could do it...
So it does not really mean there are issues with the original design (which one should stick to or only heavily modify after talking to the designer himself)

As for the Iroquois in BC, you are right, better to look at boats closer to home or less expensive ones still further away (it costs to travel and go out to look at boats too...)

I intend to go and look at an Iroquois in the coming weeks with my wife, this will be the real go/nogo to keep on looking for this type of boats...

We hope too to find the boat that will allow us live our dreams !!!

djeeke · 19-02-2009, 07:20

Hi Brad,

From what I have been able to understand the Hobart I saw for sale is an frp construction and not plywood encapsulated.

As you mentioned, the design looks decent...
It also seems to have been built by 'Cat Marine', anybody has more information on this company, good/bad reputation? I know they also built some Derek Kelsall designed multihulls.
I will contact the seller and try get some more insight on his boat.

A thorough survey by a good surveyor will obviously be required, especially after reading the story of that other Hobart that had a hull smashed by some waves (but staid afloat and finally got recovered)...

If you can think of any specific questions I could (should) ask, just let me know. (even general questions valid for every type of cat)

Thanks !
Djeeke

djeeke · 19-02-2009, 11:46

While I'm at it looking at different options, I also saw a 1989 Windsong for sale on yachtworld.com that is in my budget (I hate the paintjob done on it, it looks bad, even on the pictures...)
Who can comment on this one ? (apart from Richard from whom I expect some more info as he might know the boat personnaly

)

Thanks guys !!!
I love this forum, your help is much appreciated and I hope this thread will be able to help others too !

Djeeke

djeeke · 20-02-2009, 15:08

Richard, did you miss this question or am I just impatient

Quote:

Originally Posted by djeeke

While I'm at it looking at different options, I also saw a 1989 Windsong for sale on yachtworld.com that is in my budget (I hate the paintjob done on it, it looks bad, even on the pictures...)
Who can comment on this one ? (apart from Richard from whom I expect some more info as he might know the boat personnaly

)

Thanks guys !!!
I love this forum, your help is much appreciated and I hope this thread will be able to help others too !

Djeeke

josepsaavedra · 08-07-2009, 23:17

I am selling a Piver 43 trimaran 1976 Only 49.900 USD located in WPB FL
Just went thru an extensive refit. My life is taking new directions. contact at josepsaavedra%hotmail
later
jose

djeeke · 21-07-2009, 16:01

Thanks for the suggestion, for now I'm still looking at catamarans...

I just came across the John Hitch Catamaran below, it was listed in New Zealand for NZ$124,000... (not for sale anymore)
This is not a lot of money for a 41 ft catamaran...

I had never heard of John Hitch Catamarans before... (probably because he's from the other hemisphere

)
Anybody knows this catamaran or John Hitch ?

As I am looking for a Catamaran it might be worthwhile for me to look at his boats if one comes on the market... As long as it sails correctly off course

It does not appear to have keels so I guess it must have swing boards (dagger boards would be visible when beached) or asymmetric hulls, anyone ?

Thanks !!

beau · 21-07-2009, 19:45

John Hitch is an Australian (or new Zealand) multihull designer.
There are many examples of his boats here in eastern Australia. I believe most are built in Ply and then Glassed over.
I am not sure that they ever went in production but were mainly sold as a set of plans for DIY.
I believe they are a good boat for cruising or live aboard. The design is a bit old probably early 1970's.
The only issue is with all DIY boats they are usually "overbuilt" (heavy) by the owners which can be a problem with Multis.

djeeke · 18-02-2009, 14:54

Guys, FYI, I did a quick search regarding that Hobart and it seems it has been recovered and returned to the French owners as they are now selling it ...
Hobart 900 - 900 - Sailboat : Cruising catamaran - Free classified ads - Used boats
On the link in this ad which points to another page the owner confirms it really is this same hobart.
They did manage to cross the Atlantic but had issues with the standing rig on the way and had to make a 'temporary fix' to keep the mast upright...
It seems one hull was 'smashed' by a big wave and breached, letting lots of water enter the hull, a second wave made an ever bigger whole in the hull and the owners (couple with two children decided to abandon ship which was still afloat and sailed away from them when they were in the liferaft (with the dinghy attached to it)...
(The eternal question of staying on board or not when something bad happens...)
Apparently the boat must have staid afloat as it has been recovered...

Southern Star · 19-02-2009, 08:12

Djeeke, just looked at the one you are considering and yes, it does seem to be frp construction (whether it is cored or not, and if so with what is unknown). This one has fixed keels (the shape of which are difficult to discern from the photos), although it also seems to make use of an underbody shape somewhat similar to the Catalacs of the same vintage.

From what I can see, the construction does not seem to be up to the standards of the Iroquois; indeed, in terms of interior space, the aft cabins seem much smaller and the head compartment no larger. It also carries the coachouse both higher andurther forward.

I would say that the Iroqois would be a much better and safer sailor for the following reasons:
1. less weight in the ends
2. the Iroquois has 'knuckles' forward which will tend to reduce the tendancy to bury the bows.
3. the Iroquois has boards that will assist in performance by reducing drag when up, and improve windward performance when down.
4. the Iroquois has an open cockpit that will drain readily if deploying a series drogue.

Both boats will be tight as liveaboards, but the Iroqois seems the better boat to my eyes.

Brad

Southern Star · 19-02-2009, 13:16

Djeeke, i didn't see the Windsong on yachtworld.com, although I did see a Fishercat in your price range. Not terrible speedy, but well built and roomy, to be sure. The Windsong, as I recall, was a Richard Woods design so he would definitely be the expert there.

Brad

Sea Wolf · 19-02-2009, 13:31

Djeeke,
Saw the Windsong on yachtworld. What?! you don't like shamrock green? Have you no Irish in your blood?

The boat looks like it's been fairly well maintained, but think about the headroom. There doesn't appear to be much and bending over all the time can get tiresome, to say the least. I was the outboard and frankly, that's a real plus. If it goes kerplunk, it's easy and cheap to replace.

If you hear of anything in the Miami area, we can take a look at it for you. Just tell us what and where. We'll let you know if it's worth coming over to look at.

Loree
Aboard SeaWolf
CruisersLife.com

djeeke · 19-02-2009, 13:46

Hi Brad,

It is listed as '30 ft 1989 Woods Windsong Catamaran'
I'm sure Richard will tell me more about it

...
I had a quick a look at the Fisher, thx for the hint but I'll pass on this one ! (solid foredeck, huge cabin, lots of weight at the front we're afraid, and we don't like the looks of it but that's our personal opinion...)

Hi Loree !!!

Wow, thank you for the proposal ! Very much appreciated !
I'll have a look at the ones I already have on (still changing) shortlist to see if there is a serious candidate in your area !

Great that you propose to spend some of your spare time for a fellow sailor !

Euh, nope, no Irish in my blood, English is not my mother tongue and I sometimes have difficulties with some boating terminology but that's OK, I'm learning

Not that I don't like the shamrock green, to me it just looks as if it was done by an amateur, but it might be an impression and look better as it does to me on the pictures...

Thanks again !

Sea Wolf · 19-02-2009, 14:15

Djeeke,
That green is a tad vibrant. I would venture a guess that the owner painted it himself and I don't think it will look better in person.

Do not apologize for your English. It is excellent and far better than that of some of my former co-workers, who were born here.

We'd be happy to check out anything in this area for you. As much as I'd love to hop over to the Bahamas to look at our Irish boat, that's not going to happen.

Regards,

Loree
Aboard SeaWolf
CruisersLife.com

djeeke · 19-02-2009, 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sea Wolf

Djeeke,
That green is a tad vibrant. I would venture a guess that the owner painted it himself and I don't think it will look better in person.

My guess to

18-02-2009, 13:57	#2
djeeke Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Belgium Boat: Jaguar 27 - Nothing else matters Posts: 94	Yup, coincidence, but the world is smaller than one thinks... That Hobart seemed to have had major reconstructions done ! I would never go for something like this... It is also mentioned the original cat could do it... So it does not really mean there are issues with the original design (which one should stick to or only heavily modify after talking to the designer himself) As for the Iroquois in BC, you are right, better to look at boats closer to home or less expensive ones still further away (it costs to travel and go out to look at boats too...) I intend to go and look at an Iroquois in the coming weeks with my wife, this will be the real go/nogo to keep on looking for this type of boats... We hope too to find the boat that will allow us live our dreams !!! __________________ Nothing else matters 1987 Jaguar 27 Sailing around Dutch waters

19-02-2009, 07:20	#3
djeeke Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Belgium Boat: Jaguar 27 - Nothing else matters Posts: 94	Hobart 900 (again) Hi Brad, From what I have been able to understand the Hobart I saw for sale is an frp construction and not plywood encapsulated. As you mentioned, the design looks decent... It also seems to have been built by 'Cat Marine', anybody has more information on this company, good/bad reputation? I know they also built some Derek Kelsall designed multihulls. I will contact the seller and try get some more insight on his boat. A thorough survey by a good surveyor will obviously be required, especially after reading the story of that other Hobart that had a hull smashed by some waves (but staid afloat and finally got recovered)... If you can think of any specific questions I could (should) ask, just let me know. (even general questions valid for every type of cat) Thanks ! Djeeke __________________ Nothing else matters 1987 Jaguar 27 Sailing around Dutch waters

19-02-2009, 11:46	#4
djeeke Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Belgium Boat: Jaguar 27 - Nothing else matters Posts: 94	Windsong... While I'm at it looking at different options, I also saw a 1989 Windsong for sale on yachtworld.com that is in my budget (I hate the paintjob done on it, it looks bad, even on the pictures...) Who can comment on this one ? (apart from Richard from whom I expect some more info as he might know the boat personnaly ) Thanks guys !!! I love this forum, your help is much appreciated and I hope this thread will be able to help others too ! Djeeke __________________ Nothing else matters 1987 Jaguar 27 Sailing around Dutch waters

08-07-2009, 23:17	#6
josepsaavedra Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: wpb florida Boat: piver 43 trimaran Posts: 10	trimaran for sale I am selling a Piver 43 trimaran 1976 Only 49.900 USD located in WPB FL Just went thru an extensive refit. My life is taking new directions. contact at josepsaavedra%hotmail later jose

21-07-2009, 16:01	#7
djeeke Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Belgium Boat: Jaguar 27 - Nothing else matters Posts: 94	John Hitch Catamaran Thanks for the suggestion, for now I'm still looking at catamarans... I just came across the John Hitch Catamaran below, it was listed in New Zealand for NZ$124,000... (not for sale anymore) This is not a lot of money for a 41 ft catamaran... I had never heard of John Hitch Catamarans before... (probably because he's from the other hemisphere ) Anybody knows this catamaran or John Hitch ? As I am looking for a Catamaran it might be worthwhile for me to look at his boats if one comes on the market... As long as it sails correctly off course It does not appear to have keels so I guess it must have swing boards (dagger boards would be visible when beached) or asymmetric hulls, anyone ? Thanks !! __________________ Nothing else matters 1987 Jaguar 27 Sailing around Dutch waters

18-02-2009, 13:12	#1
Woods Designs Commercial Vendor Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: UK and BC, Canada when not sailing Boat: 25ft Merlin catamaran, 34ft Romany catamaran Posts: 115	By co incidence I got the following email from Erik Lerouge yesterday. ================== "a French cat was lost in French caribbean just before Christmas. Boat was an homebuilt 30 y/o Hobart 900. 9m x 4,50m, originally very light and not a bad performer. She was "adapted" to voyaging in putting a double decker cabin which had some negative influence on the rig. Boat was sailed by a family of 4. Needless to say that she was widely overloaded. As it turned out, they found themselves in the lee of the islands and reported gales conditions. Most probaly a fresh tradewind quite frequent there. They found that they could not sail to windward in these conditions. Finally decking broke at the side decks, due to side wave impact and the had to abandon ship. Fortunately, the were rescued. Although this is a structural issue, this is still of our concern in showing how an otherwise not too bad cat can be spoiled by its owner and sailed much above its design limits. This is relevent in giving a category, huge windage for its sail carrying ability made it impossible to sail upwind in what probably did not exceed F7/8 (enough to scare an inexperience family on a poor small boat). I know the original cat could do it!" ============================ I think you will find the Iroquois very small for a couple living on board - unless you are short. I cannot sit at the front of the saloon even though I am only 1.75m tall. Loading capacity will be a problem as well. I know people who cruise them and live onboard but the comfort level is usually low and may be too low for you. Despite what others have said the Iroquois has one of the worst capsize record ever. The 32ft version just had lengthened sterns, no other real changes. I know the boat for sale in BC, but, because of the exchange rates, I would think a UK Iroquois would be a lot cheaper. Hope you find the boat of your dreams Richard Woods of Woods Designs, currently cruising his 34ft Romany in the Bahamas (even though it is for sale) Woods Designs Sailing Catamarans

21-07-2009, 19:45	#8
beau Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Brisbane Australia Posts: 368	John Hitch is an Australian (or new Zealand) multihull designer. There are many examples of his boats here in eastern Australia. I believe most are built in Ply and then Glassed over. I am not sure that they ever went in production but were mainly sold as a set of plans for DIY. I believe they are a good boat for cruising or live aboard. The design is a bit old probably early 1970's. The only issue is with all DIY boats they are usually "overbuilt" (heavy) by the owners which can be a problem with Multis.

18-02-2009, 14:54	#9
djeeke Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Belgium Boat: Jaguar 27 - Nothing else matters Posts: 94	Guys, FYI, I did a quick search regarding that Hobart and it seems it has been recovered and returned to the French owners as they are now selling it ... Hobart 900 - 900 - Sailboat : Cruising catamaran - Free classified ads - Used boats On the link in this ad which points to another page the owner confirms it really is this same hobart. They did manage to cross the Atlantic but had issues with the standing rig on the way and had to make a 'temporary fix' to keep the mast upright... It seems one hull was 'smashed' by a big wave and breached, letting lots of water enter the hull, a second wave made an ever bigger whole in the hull and the owners (couple with two children decided to abandon ship which was still afloat and sailed away from them when they were in the liferaft (with the dinghy attached to it)... (The eternal question of staying on board or not when something bad happens...) Apparently the boat must have staid afloat as it has been recovered... __________________ Nothing else matters 1987 Jaguar 27 Sailing around Dutch waters Last edited by djeeke; 18-02-2009 at 15:13. Reason: found some additional info

19-02-2009, 08:12	#10
Southern Star Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Belleville, Ontario, Canada; Playa Zaragoza, Isla de Margarita Boat: 1994 Solaris Sunstream 40 'Estrella del Sur' Posts: 1,014	Djeeke, just looked at the one you are considering and yes, it does seem to be frp construction (whether it is cored or not, and if so with what is unknown). This one has fixed keels (the shape of which are difficult to discern from the photos), although it also seems to make use of an underbody shape somewhat similar to the Catalacs of the same vintage. From what I can see, the construction does not seem to be up to the standards of the Iroquois; indeed, in terms of interior space, the aft cabins seem much smaller and the head compartment no larger. It also carries the coachouse both higher andurther forward. I would say that the Iroqois would be a much better and safer sailor for the following reasons: 1. less weight in the ends 2. the Iroquois has 'knuckles' forward which will tend to reduce the tendancy to bury the bows. 3. the Iroquois has boards that will assist in performance by reducing drag when up, and improve windward performance when down. 4. the Iroquois has an open cockpit that will drain readily if deploying a series drogue. Both boats will be tight as liveaboards, but the Iroqois seems the better boat to my eyes. Brad

19-02-2009, 13:16	#11
Southern Star Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Belleville, Ontario, Canada; Playa Zaragoza, Isla de Margarita Boat: 1994 Solaris Sunstream 40 'Estrella del Sur' Posts: 1,014	Djeeke, i didn't see the Windsong on yachtworld.com, although I did see a Fishercat in your price range. Not terrible speedy, but well built and roomy, to be sure. The Windsong, as I recall, was a Richard Woods design so he would definitely be the expert there. Brad

19-02-2009, 13:31	#12
Sea Wolf Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Living aboard in North Miami, Florida Boat: Prout, Quasar, 50' - Sea Wolf Posts: 98	Windsong Djeeke, Saw the Windsong on yachtworld. What?! you don't like shamrock green? Have you no Irish in your blood? The boat looks like it's been fairly well maintained, but think about the headroom. There doesn't appear to be much and bending over all the time can get tiresome, to say the least. I was the outboard and frankly, that's a real plus. If it goes kerplunk, it's easy and cheap to replace. If you hear of anything in the Miami area, we can take a look at it for you. Just tell us what and where. We'll let you know if it's worth coming over to look at. Loree Aboard SeaWolf CruisersLife.com

19-02-2009, 13:46	#13
djeeke Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Belgium Boat: Jaguar 27 - Nothing else matters Posts: 94	Hi Brad, It is listed as '30 ft 1989 Woods Windsong Catamaran' I'm sure Richard will tell me more about it ... I had a quick a look at the Fisher, thx for the hint but I'll pass on this one ! (solid foredeck, huge cabin, lots of weight at the front we're afraid, and we don't like the looks of it but that's our personal opinion...) Hi Loree !!! Wow, thank you for the proposal ! Very much appreciated ! I'll have a look at the ones I already have on (still changing) shortlist to see if there is a serious candidate in your area ! Great that you propose to spend some of your spare time for a fellow sailor ! Euh, nope, no Irish in my blood, English is not my mother tongue and I sometimes have difficulties with some boating terminology but that's OK, I'm learning Not that I don't like the shamrock green, to me it just looks as if it was done by an amateur, but it might be an impression and look better as it does to me on the pictures... Thanks again ! __________________ Nothing else matters 1987 Jaguar 27 Sailing around Dutch waters

19-02-2009, 14:15	#14
Sea Wolf Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Living aboard in North Miami, Florida Boat: Prout, Quasar, 50' - Sea Wolf Posts: 98	Djeeke, That green is a tad vibrant. I would venture a guess that the owner painted it himself and I don't think it will look better in person. Do not apologize for your English. It is excellent and far better than that of some of my former co-workers, who were born here. We'd be happy to check out anything in this area for you. As much as I'd love to hop over to the Bahamas to look at our Irish boat, that's not going to happen. Regards, Loree Aboard SeaWolf CruisersLife.com

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